MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 mos, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011

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A 5 year update story: http://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/case-for-missing-baby-lisa-remains-open-5-years-later

baby%20lisa_%20natl%20center%20for%20missing,%20exploited%20children_1475512772951_47269356_ver1.0_640_480.PNG
 
gregjrichards said:
Wow 5 years tomorrow I remember following the case for a long time after it happened. I have my own theory of what happened a tragic accident. It's difficult to ignore the cadaver dog hit in the bedroom of the home.
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I wouldn't ignore the "cadaver" dog alert but it really doesn't prove anything. In the Jacob Wetterling case an innocent man was named a POI partially because of "FBI" dogs alerting at his property. See warrant #4 beginning on page 11.
In 2010, Rassier was named a “person of interest” in Jacob’s disappearance and investigators spent two days going through the home he shared with his parents and searching the family farm with excavation equipment and cadaver dogs.
The dogs repeatedly signaled the presence of blood or “decomposing human remains” on the property. They sounded the alert in outbuildings, led investigators to suspicious stains and spatter on walls and a 3-foot-long wooden box, used for storing blankets, that seemed large enough to hide a body.
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http://www.startribune.com/unsealed-court-documents-detail-search-for-jacob-wetterling/392899791/

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/09/09/jacob-wetterling-search-warrants/
 
RANCH said:
I wouldn't ignore the "cadaver" dog alert but it really doesn't prove anything. In the Jacob Wetterling case an innocent man was named a POI partially because of "FBI" dogs alerting at his property. See warrant #4 beginning on page 11.


http://www.startribune.com/unsealed-court-documents-detail-search-for-jacob-wetterling/392899791/

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/09/09/jacob-wetterling-search-warrants/
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You make a good point Ranch. I don't know if we will ever know the truth about what happened to Lisa it's tragic.
 
A cadaver dog can signal that they are detecting the scent of human decomp in an area but they can't tell you the identity of who they are detecting or what happened to them. A well-trained cadaver dog with a competent and also well-trained handler is a powerful tool. But it's just a tool and by itself won't make the case if there's no other corroborating evidence.
 
http://www.kctv5.com/clip/12777479/monday-marks-5-years-since-baby-lisa-irwin-disappeared

Preview posted a few minutes ago.

When asked what the police are saying, the reporter indicates that is an open investigation and there has been 543 tips investigated.

Cyndy Short will be interviewed during the segment tonight. She conducted her own investigation. She says the parents are credible and heartbroken.

Reporter says what the phone records show will be discussed. Family feels older information such as the phones is important.

Lisa's crib is still in the house. Her room is packed with presents and toys.

Reporter reminding everyone to please be sensitive on social media. "Lisa has two older brothers who can read."
 
Madeleine74 said:
A cadaver dog can signal that they are detecting the scent of human decomp in an area but they can't tell you the identity of who they are detecting or what happened to them. A well-trained cadaver dog with a competent and also well-trained handler is a powerful tool. But it's just a tool and by itself won't make the case if there's no other corroborating evidence.
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Yes to everything you said. What people need to understand is that these HRD (Human Remains Detection) dogs are so good that they will alert to minuscule amounts of human decomp which includes blood. Live people can leave behind blood that decomposes. These dogs will alert to that. JMO.
 
That's interesting, RANCH! Of course one might wonder who and what caused a person to bleed in a spot to create a situation in which a cadaver dog would alert and then how likely that there's a missing person (perhaps presumed dead) AND a cadaver dog happens to be alerting.

I think it probably, at least partly, comes down to what the dog was trained to detect and not detect in terms of detection of remains.
 
Madeleine74 said:
That's interesting, RANCH! Of course one might wonder who and what caused a person to bleed in a spot to create a situation in which a cadaver dog would alert and then how likely that there's a missing person (perhaps presumed dead) AND a cadaver dog happens to be alerting.

I think it probably, at least partly, comes down to what the dog was trained to detect and not detect in terms of detection of remains.
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I think that a properly trained HRD dog will alert to decomposing human blood even if trained only on human blood or only using complete human cadavers. If it doesn't then it's not very useful in a police investigation.

The real value that these HRD dogs have in an investigation is that they can discover evidence that forensic testing can later show a particular person (DNA) left blood or other sources of human decomposition at a crime scene.

Another value is they can be used to obtain a search warrant for more intrusive searching after homeowners have given police permission to search. That's what happened in the case of missing Lisa Irwin. JMO
 
It's the 4th here now. 5 years, 5 years since I joined WS for Lisa. I never thought 5 years later, we still wouldn't know what happened. :(
 
RANCH said:
Yes to everything you said. What people need to understand is that these HRD (Human Remains Detection) dogs are so good that they will alert to minuscule amounts of human decomp which includes blood. Live people can leave behind blood that decomposes. These dogs will alert to that. JMO.
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This information makes me question what these dogs detect. From what you are saying, if one of the brothers had hurt himself and the place bled, that dried blood would decompose which would alert an HRD dog. Right?

With five people living in that trailer, it is likely that more than one of them has bled while living there. I don't remember, but did they find blood, or the dog just alerted? I think the dog just alerted or else they could have tested the blood for DNA.

I have always felt that baby Lisa is deceased. The parents know exactly what happened and have successfully gotten by with it.

Reminds me of a case we have been following for over a year on here, little DeOrr Kunz.

My opinions only.
 
1&2&3 said:
This information makes me question what these dogs detect. From what you are saying, if one of the brothers had hurt himself and the place bled, that dried blood would decompose which would alert an HRD dog. Right?

With five people living in that trailer, it is likely that more than one of them has bled while living there. I don't remember, but did they find blood, or the dog just alerted? I think the dog just alerted or else they could have tested the blood for DNA.

I have always felt that baby Lisa is deceased. The parents know exactly what happened and have successfully gotten by with it.

Reminds me of a case we have been following for over a year on here, little DeOrr Kunz.

My opinions only.
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LE never released any information that corroborated the HRD dogs alert. It's possible that the alert was false, cued by the dog handler or from blood that someone left behind previous to Lisa disappearing.

There's nothing that we know of that say's the dog alert was from Lisa Irwin being dead. I haven't seen any evidence that convinces me that Lisa's parents harmed her or are in anyway responsible for her disappearance. JMO
 
http://www.kctv5.com/story/33288936...es-revealed-in-baby-lisa-irwins-disappearance

The 10-month-old was last seen in her crib on Oct. 3, 2011. She simply vanished. Lisa’s parents believe their daughter is alive.

“There’s not a doubt in my mind, and I’m her mom. I obviously I have my mother’s intuition, and I have never once felt for a second that she has been hurt or gone," Lisa’s mother, Deborah Bradley, said.

Her parents believe she was kidnapped and then sold.

“This was not a one-person deal,” Lisa’s father, Jeremy Irwin, said.
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[video=youtube;DK4UBEqQFFY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK4UBEqQFFY[/video]
 
askfornina said:
Video @ link

http://www.kctv5.com/clip/12778980/...es-revealed-in-baby-lisa-irwins-disappearance
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Thanks again Nina. This was a balanced report in my opinion.

They said that the dogs smelled "something" and not definitely human remains. They asked Deborah about the polygraph and let her say that she didn't fail it only that police used a well known tactic of saying someone failed the "lie detector test" when they actually passed.

They reported about John Tanko and his girl friend Megan Wright who's phone was called by the stolen Irwin phone the night Lisa disappeared. They did go on and used statistics showing that abducting a child Lisa's age is unlikely.

Not a bad report and I'm glad that it gets Lisa's name back in the public eye.
 
DB breaks down and cries and JI doesn't show any affection or concern... he doesn't rub her back or put his arm around her... he barely looks at her... he looks everywhere else...

rip lisa :rose:

thanks nina, for the links.
 
I can't believe it's been 5 years. I am local to KC and remember the constant reporting on Lisa. The threads here in the following days and weeks went so quickly - you'd be gone for an hour and you were pages and pages behind. I still am on the fence about what happened to Lisa but I don't believe she's alive. Still, to this day, seeing the picture of her smiling breaks my heart.
 
:tantrum: I can't get the KCTV5 video to play! Can someone actually post the video on here instead of the link please? Like the other video of DB blubbering her crocodile tears. TIA BTW....is she pregnant again? :thinking:
 
redheadedgal said:
DB breaks down and cries and JI doesn't show any affection or concern... he doesn't rub her back or put his arm around her... he barely looks at her... he looks everywhere else...

rip lisa :rose:

thanks nina, for the links.
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He doesn't comfort her cause he knows she's not really hurting and in need of comfort. I'm kind of surprised that they're still together. Thought maybe JI would have wised up by now. Got her hooks in deep, that's for sure. ;)
 
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