MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 mos, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011

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I just saw the ID show. When Jeremy came home from work the oldest boy was asleep in Deborah's bed ? But she had said that she pretty much passed out around 10 30pm ? I recall reading that both boys said that they heard a "clicking" sound sometime during the night. So, when would the oldest boy have left his own bedroom, and gone into Deborah's room ? Did he see or hear anything else ? Wish this case could be solved...jmo
 
Alleykins said:
Did they have a septic tank as opposed to city sewer? You could call the town office and they should be able to tell you if the neighborhood they lived in is served by them.
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Long ago I lived in this area, the house most likely is on a city sewer system. Good idea!
 
Amazing how we used to have threads and threads on this case and now it gets little coverage in the "news" media.
 
UMfanforever said:
Amazing how we used to have threads and threads on this case and now it gets little coverage in the "news" media.
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I truly hate to say this but I will....
Perhaps it's because we kind of know how it ended. Meaning Baby Lisa is no longer among us but how and why it happened may never be told.

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When the parents quit speaking out for Lisa and quit talking to LE the interest dropped. Plus I don't think she is with us anymore either. Therefore the threads quieted down. imo moo :cow:
 
This is the case that brought me to WS, watching a people program on ID channel UK.

I still think Mommy somehow done it but I don't think we'll ever know.

Deborah and Jeremy are actually on this show


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I've always thought the most likely scenario was one of the kids left unsupervised in the house for hours hurt her, and that child's mother covered it up. Lisa's mother was so impaired, it wouldn't have been hard to sneak a body past her. As I recall, the two moms sat on the porch and drank for hours, Lisa's mom drinking more, while all the small children played with Lisa who was caged in her crib the whole time inside the house never being checked on. Completely unsupervised. It just seems most likely, to me. They could have sat on her and she suffocated, jumped in her crib and she got a head injury being pinched in between the mattress and rails, etc. As I recall, NOBODY was on record checking on Lisa between the time her dad left for work, in the late afternoon, and he returned at 4 in the morning.
 
JeannaT said:
As I recall, NOBODY was on record checking on Lisa between the time her dad left for work, in the late afternoon, and he returned at 4 in the morning.
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DB said she went to lisa's room around 8pm, i think.
 
Here is what I think with respect to Lisa Irwin's abductor:

He may have been the one sitting in the pulled up, light colored older model sedan (like a Taurus or Camry) a week prior to the abduction and who both Shane Beagley and his grandmother thought strange. This person may have been monitoring the home to see when the best time was to strike. Homes targeted for home invasions and burglaries are often staked out one to two weeks ahead of time.

(Note: As far as I know, no physical description was ever printed here of this man. I have wondered if his description would be similar to that of the man Mike Thompson saw).

This man had asked Shane B. if he had noticed anyone walking around the neighborhood. It is possible that he may have been asking to see if he - or an accomplice who had been casing the area as well - had been detected. People staking out a property to find out movements will often walk around the area, possibly chit chat with people, pose as meter readers, pose as a door to door salesman, sit in the woods near a property and observe it, and very importantly, collect information about dogs in the area and when they are outside and back inside at night as well as get to know the dogs.

He would have selected the area because I believe it is a low income area which tended to have a fair bit of crime. Residents in more upscale areas are far more on the look out for strangers, suspicious people, and possible home invaders. There is also more security and camera surveillance in more upscale areas which is a cause for concern.

Shane Beagley had stated to Jim Spellman that he thought he heard something from the woods behind his home on the night of the abduction. I believe the Bradley/Irwin children also heard something, including tapping, although the time of that is unknown. Home invaders will often tap or lightly knock a door first to see if anyone is awake, then enter. He was also likely monitoring the home from the woods right behind the property and could hear them That is how he would know when to make his move.

If that was him on the BP Gas station video around 2:15 - 2:30 AM, then it very very well may have been him heading eastbound on NE Parvin Road, walking in the same direction of traffic in order to keep his back to traffic and naturally concealing the child. Then northbound on Randolph Road to wherever he was heading. On foot it could take roughly an hour to get there. He may have taken a rest or two on this way there to give his arms a break.

And if that was him, then he probably had the baby with him and had just abducted her. I'd go as far as to say the abduction probably happened at around 1:45 AM or 2 AM. I'm not sure if that first sighting was as strong as initially presented...the one at around 12:15 AM. It is possible they didn't actually see a child but something else the person was carrying.

Why walk? If you are going to go all the way and take all the steps of watching someone and monitor a property, and make sure there are no loose ends, the last thing you will want is a baby's DNA all over the inside of your car. You also guarantee no reports of suspicious vehicles will be reported the next day, and definitely no amber alerts. This is someone who knows the score.

He could have taken North Bennington..a shorter route, but there would have been too many residential properties along the way. North Randoplh had more industrial properties than residential.

If the phone call were in fact no more than 1/3 of a mile or so from the house at all times, including the ones around 3:30 AM, then the person making the calls and the person adducing the child are different. Someone probably swiped the phones that night while they were in the house. It would be hard to come forward because then you could linked with a child abduction.

My impression is that he is very logical and well organized, although highly, highly criminal. He may have a military or law enforcement background. He has likely robbed before and is very well experienced. He was probably hired by someone linked to black market or shady adoption practices, such as brokering children from poor parents, running Christian programs for young mothers to give up their children, and so on.

If S.Beagley by chance ever reads this...what was the physical description of the man in that car?
 
nova1998 said:
Here is what I think with respect to Lisa Irwin's abductor:

He may have been the one sitting in the pulled up, light colored older model sedan (like a Taurus or Camry) a week prior to the abduction and who both Shane Beagley and his grandmother thought strange. This person may have been monitoring the home to see when the best time was to strike. Homes targeted for home invasions and burglaries are often staked out one to two weeks ahead of time.

(Note: As far as I know, no physical description was ever printed here of this man. I have wondered if his description would be similar to that of the man Mike Thompson saw).

This man had asked Shane B. if he had noticed anyone walking around the neighborhood. It is possible that he may have been asking to see if he - or an accomplice who had been casing the area as well - had been detected. People staking out a property to find out movements will often walk around the area, possibly chit chat with people, pose as meter readers, pose as a door to door salesman, sit in the woods near a property and observe it, and very importantly, collect information about dogs in the area and when they are outside and back inside at night as well as get to know the dogs.

He would have selected the area because I believe it is a low income area which tended to have a fair bit of crime. Residents in more upscale areas are far more on the look out for strangers, suspicious people, and possible home invaders. There is also more security and camera surveillance in more upscale areas which is a cause for concern.

Shane Beagley had stated to Jim Spellman that he thought he heard something from the woods behind his home on the night of the abduction. I believe the Bradley/Irwin children also heard something, including tapping, although the time of that is unknown. Home invaders will often tap or lightly knock a door first to see if anyone is awake, then enter. He was also likely monitoring the home from the woods right behind the property and could hear them That is how he would know when to make his move.

If that was him on the BP Gas station video around 2:15 - 2:30 AM, then it very very well may have been him heading eastbound on NE Parvin Road, walking in the same direction of traffic in order to keep his back to traffic and naturally concealing the child. Then northbound on Randolph Road to wherever he was heading. On foot it could take roughly an hour to get there. He may have taken a rest or two on this way there to give his arms a break.

And if that was him, then he probably had the baby with him and had just abducted her. I'd go as far as to say the abduction probably happened at around 1:45 AM or 2 AM. I'm not sure if that first sighting was as strong as initially presented...the one at around 12:15 AM. It is possible they didn't actually see a child but something else the person was carrying.

Why walk? If you are going to go all the way and take all the steps of watching someone and monitor a property, and make sure there are no loose ends, the last thing you will want is a baby's DNA all over the inside of your car. You also guarantee no reports of suspicious vehicles will be reported the next day, and definitely no amber alerts. This is someone who knows the score.

He could have taken North Bennington..a shorter route, but there would have been too many residential properties along the way. North Randoplh had more industrial properties than residential.

If the phone call were in fact no more than 1/3 of a mile or so from the house at all times, including the ones around 3:30 AM, then the person making the calls and the person adducing the child are different. Someone probably swiped the phones that night while they were in the house. It would be hard to come forward because then you could linked with a child abduction.

My impression is that he is very logical and well organized, although highly, highly criminal. He may have a military or law enforcement background. He has likely robbed before and is very well experienced. He was probably hired by someone linked to black market or shady adoption practices, such as brokering children from poor parents, running Christian programs for young mothers to give up their children, and so on.

If S.Beagley by chance ever reads this...what was the physical description of the man in that car?
Click to expand...

There was no routine to that night! It was the first time Jeremy had ever worked the night shift, so how could this person that cased this house know what to expect? moo :cow:
 
Jewels53 said:
There was no routine to that night! It was the first time Jeremy had ever worked the night shift, so how could this person that cased this house know what to expect? moo :cow:
Click to expand...

Exactly. And how does it explain the cadaver evidence the cadaver dog detected in the parents bedroom?
 
Here are a couple of images of an older model Camry and an older model Taurus; these are the models Shane Beagley referred to when he told Jim Spellman (CNN) about the suspicious car pulled over a week prior to the abduction. I was curious to see what they looked like as I am no car expert and made an image of them.Baby L cars.jpg
 
I've begun to look through old Missouri archives and came across a couple of interesting things. Because I'm operating under the assumption that Lisa Irwin's abductor has extensive robbery experience (e.g. home invasions, bank robbery, heists, etc). I came across an article that gives humorous advice to bank robbers as to why they shouldn't use cars. This articles humorously promotes bicycles instead and goes into all sorts of reasons why they cars wouldn't be good (Link: http://www.phred.org/~alex/kenkifer/www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/humor/robbery.htm). Please note that I don't believe the abductor used a bicycle. I believe he left on foot. However, some of reasons make good sense. Secondly, looking at historical unsolved bank robberies, I noticed how many of the suspects never spoke to the tellers, but handed over written notes instead. Recall that Mike Thompson said that the man, when responding to him, never spoke, but just nodded instead. Wouldn't it be normal to respond with a "Sure, man..we're okay! Just heading home!". But this man didn't.
 
nova1998 said:
I've begun to look through old Missouri archives and came across a couple of interesting things. Because I'm operating under the assumption that Lisa Irwin's abductor has extensive robbery experience (e.g. home invasions, bank robbery, heists, etc). I came across an article that gives humorous advice to bank robbers as to why they shouldn't use cars. This articles humorously promotes bicycles instead and goes into all sorts of reasons why they cars wouldn't be good (Link: http://www.phred.org/~alex/kenkifer/www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/humor/robbery.htm). Please note that I don't believe the abductor used a bicycle. I believe he left on foot. However, some of reasons make good sense. Secondly, looking at historical unsolved bank robberies, I noticed how many of the suspects never spoke to the tellers, but handed over written notes instead. Recall that Mike Thompson said that the man, when responding to him, never spoke, but just nodded instead. Wouldn't it be normal to respond with a "Sure, man..we're okay! Just heading home!". But this man didn't.
Click to expand...

Lisa is missing not kidnapped! Only the family says she was kidnapped! LE says she is missing. Big difference.

LISAIRWINMISSING.jpg
 
Jewels53 said:
Lisa is missing not kidnapped! Only the family says she was kidnapped! LE says she is missing. Big difference.

attachment.php
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I think that Lisa was kidnapped and I'm not family.
 
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