GUILTY MO - Tyler Dasher, 1, Affton, 15 Nov 2011 - #2

[LaLaw2000]

I know, I was just repeating what was said in the presser yesterday. Starts at post 1298 & 1300 here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154790&page=52

:seeya:

Oh, I know! I heard the presser also. I was just saying that what he said was not feasible. Not being critical in any way!

 

[Melanie]

I am fairly new to this board so I'm wondering if by pleading not guilty to the second degree murder charge, that opens the door for her to plea to a lesser charge of manslaughter or something where she might only serve a few years.

When SAD is assigned an attorney, that attorney could go to the prosecuter and put just about anything in front of him/her. It's really up to the prosecutor to determine what to accept, and if he/she feels that they can really win the charge of 2nd degree murder.

Second degree murder is a lesser charge than first degree murder and is the middle ground between first degree murder and voluntary manslaughter.

If it goes before a jury, there could be a lesser charge included in the jury instructions. For example, in the anthony case, the original charge was first degree murder (and what Casey was arraigned on), but the jurors were also given the option of lesser charges of second-degree murder and felony third-degree Murder amongst other charges.

Or,

The defense and prosecution could get together and work out a plea deal.

We'll just have to wait n' see I guess.

MOO

Disclaimer: I'm not an attorney, not even a law student. Most of this I'm pulling from the Amferny case.

 

[MsFacetious]

If hand-wringing over Tyler's mother saves one future baby from being beaten and dumped like garbage, how can anyone find fault with it? I don't see anyone on this thread saying Shelby deserves easy treatment no matter what her excuses might be. Shelby's guilt and the reason she killed her baby are two separate things, IMO. Ok, if the reason is that she is selfish and hateful, let's figure out how to stop producing selfish and hateful people. Let's talk about it. Let's research it. Let's STOP IT FROM HAPPENING.

How many people who read and comment on this thread do not share what they read with other people in their lives? Do your friends and family want to discuss dead babies with you? In my case, no. Nobody in my life wants this heavy weight on their hearts. It's painful. This, IMO, is part of the problem. There was a time when people wouldn't talk about cancer either, but then someone made it ok and now they are figuring out cures and preventions right and left.

It's true... when things are hidden and not talked about, they cannot be worked through.

Cancer is one example.

AIDS is another.

Children with special needs used to be institutionalized at birth instead of taken home to be raised.
It was a shame to your family if you had a disabled child and it was to remain a secret.
No one talked about it, so no one realized it just wasn't that bad.
No one realized the positive effect a disabled sibling can have on someone.

Human trafficking... if that doesn't get talked about then it can't get prevented either.

I DO talk about these cases. I went up last night to tell my mother about Tyler.
I said "the 1 year old baby in Missouri..." and she said "which one?" She thought I meant Lisa.

I wonder what the statistics look like for various states? I cannot find that information.
Is there a state with a LOWER percentage of babies killed by their parents?
If there is then what is different about that state?
Is it programs available? The people just being more helpful and friendly in general?

There ARE ways to look at this and try to prevent it. Because if it is happening more in one area than another... WHY is that?

Parents who kill their kids not always insane, expert says

The third type of filicide involves fatal battering.
Resnick said this accounts for 80 percent of homicides of children younger than 1.

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_18151310

 

[Karmaa]

I choose to give a lot of time being a "Guardian ad Litem"... giving love and support to the children that I am assigned. They are the ones that need it due to being in the Court System because of the "Horrible Choices" that their parent/s made. It is so sad to watch these INNOCENT CHILDREN...have they lives torn up side down and many have lasting emotional trauma...I am hoping that I can make a small difference in their lives and give them some loving support and show them that SOMEONE actually cares about THEM!

BBM / snipped by me

THANK YOU!

 

[lonetraveler]

I took a break yesterday after learning that this woman would be charged with second degree murder instead of first degree murder. I was so upset that once again a "mother" is treated differently than if a "father" had beaten the innocent baby to death. This woman deserves to be charged the ultimate charge for brutally beating Tyler Dasher to death. It isn't that she just hit him once out of anger and he died from that one blow. She continued to beat him until IMO, she either got tired of beating him or he was no longer making a sound, meaning he died. Why is this not premeditated murder? :maddening:

 

[katydid23]

It's true... when things are hidden and not talked about, they cannot be worked through.

Cancer is one example.

AIDS is another.

Children with special needs used to be institutionalized at birth instead of taken home to be raised.
It was a shame to your family if you had a disabled child and it was to remain a secret.
No one talked about it, so no one realized it just wasn't that bad.
No one realized the positive effect a disabled sibling can have on someone.

Human trafficking... if that doesn't get talked about then it can't get prevented either.

I DO talk about these cases. I went up last night to tell my mother about Tyler.
I said "the 1 year old baby in Missouri..." and she said "which one?" She thought I meant Lisa.

I wonder what the statistics look like for various states? I cannot find that information.
Is there a state with a LOWER percentage of babies killed by their parents?
If there is then what is different about that state?
Is it programs available? The people just being more helpful and friendly in general?

There ARE ways to look at this and try to prevent it. Because if it is happening more in one area than another... WHY is that?

Parents who kill their kids not always insane, expert says

The third type of filicide involves fatal battering.
Resnick said this accounts for 80 percent of homicides of children younger than 1.

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_18151310

That is a devastating statistic--- 80% 0f homicides for infants involve 'fatal battering.' That is so pathetic and sick. I cannot wrap my head around the act of beating up an infant. Seriously. I can understand taking an angry punch at an insolent, swearing teenager. My husband and teen son nearly came to blows one time. BUT AN INFANT? I just cannot imagine beating a tiny little baby like that. It is hard to imagine how cold and cruel and evil one has to be to kill a tiny baby by beating them. :rose:

 

[lonetraveler]

This post isn't directed at anyone's post, just some food for thought.

IMHO a mom who kills her child doesn't necessarily have to be suffering from any emotional or psychological disorder. Just like a great many of either gender that murder others aren't emotionally or psychologically disordered (or mentally ill).

IMHO she didn't have to hate him. The opposite of love isn't hate IMHO it's apathy. She only had to be emotionally disconnected enough from him to be apathetic to his needs and to see his needs as an affront to her at the moment and act out in anger.

IMHO there are numerous resources to assist young parents in that area. I'm very impressed with it actually. I wish we had some of those in my community. How to prevent this from happening? That is a question that has been asked and debated for longer than I've been alive. Even if all resources are available there are still children being killed by their parents or caregivers, newborns still being abandoned in trashcans sometimes not even a block from safe haven designated spots.

There is no answer to protect all of these children above and beyond the resources already in place IMHO. But, I personally, am making sure that all of my children (aged from teens up to 31 and the 31 year old I did do this but she's well into adulthood now) have protection from not only STD's but unplanned pregnancies. All of them---males and females. I talk to them all the time about it. IMHO the only way to prevent a child from being murdered by a parent or caregiver is to prevent that pregnancy.

A bit out there I admit. But that's how I'm handling it in my home. All JMHO

I agree with your post 100%. I know that some parents are going to come unglued at my next comment but oh well. It is a fact that teenagers have sex. Counting on a teen girl to remember to take a birth control pill is extremely risky, I know this by experience. I totally support every young teen be put on birthcontrol where it is not the decision of the teen to go off of it or to have to remember taking it. Injections and implants are available. Injections ony last a few months however and some responsible person has to make sure that the teen receives this injection, so there are some risks for this method. However, implants are there to stay until a physician removes it. Teens should have to be on this type of birthcontrol throughout their teen years and through college years as well. Actually until they are at least capable of supporting themselves and are employed or married to someone who is employed. Children should not be having children, period. Some adults should not be having children either. It is entirely too easy for children and irresponsible adults to have children and I do believe that this is the root of the high percentages of infant and child deaths. Some people are going to faint and say that this is a violation of their civil rights. No, it isn't. Again, children should not be having children.

 

[KinderedSpirits]

A simple thanks was not enough..

I taught First Grade for 33 years and a big part of my retirement was exactly what your last sentence states:

"""This culture of giving your children everything they want and running to school to cuss out the teacher when they get into trouble is ruining people."""

The sense of "Entitlement" is the main reason the Schools Today are in such a mess.....Teachers are not supported by the parents...they are usually treated as an Enemy...the students do NOT work hard to get "Good Grades".....they just expect them to be given to them because they attend school! """Entitlement & Immediate Gratification!!!"""

OK off my rant.....

I will NOT spend my time giving "Shelby" any attention....She does NOT deserve my anger...She Deserves My Disgust!

The Unbelieveable SADNESS in ME is for ""Little Tyler"" and the fact that his own mother did NOT value his "LIFE!" It is exceedenly SAD that his life was taken by his mom so that she could sleep off her "Bad Night of Partying."

Wondering how many times he had suffered her ANGER....Too bad she was never observed hurting him and them maybe she would have been turned over to the "Children's Protective Services" of her state. Then maybe she would have be educated on Proper Parenting and given some oversight, thus saving "Little Tyler's LIFE!"

I choose to give a lot of time being a "Guardian ad Litem"... giving love and support to the children that I am assigned. They are the ones that need it due to being in the Court System because of the "Horrible Choices" that their parent/s made. It is so sad to watch these INNOCENT CHILDREN...have they lives torn up side down and many have lasting emotional trauma...I am hoping that I can make a small difference in their lives and give them some loving support and show them that SOMEONE actually cares about THEM!

My heart also breaks for the "Grandmother", the other Grandparents and the Birth Father and any other relativies and Friends!!....The sadness and guilt that they are feeling is way beyond my comprehension....They have been cheated out of watching this "Beautiful Boy" grow into a productive adult..."Little Tyler".....had so much untapped potiental..He could have grown up to find the Cure for Cancer....But his selfish mother put an end to his "LIFE!"

Dear God..Please Bless the Soul of Tyler Dasher..Give Him Some Love and Let Him Run and Play with Caylee Antony, Trenton Ducket, HaLeigh Cummings, JonBenet Ramsey, Nevaeh Buchanan, Kyron Horman, Zarah Baker... and ALL the other Sad Missing Children whose lives were taken from Them!

Thank you both (Flutterby & Mustang Sally) for writing such eloquent posts! Anger and sadness have hindered my ability to articulate my words/feelings, as beautifully as you just did. Reading these posts just took a lot of weight off my chest. God bless all of you for caring as much as you do, and reminding me that there is still hope for humanity! :heartbeat::gthanks:

 

[lonetraveler]

I am fairly new to this board so I'm wondering if by pleading not guilty to the second degree murder charge, that opens the door for her to plea to a lesser charge of manslaughter or something where she might only serve a few years.

I think that we are all going to be devastated when we find that she makes a plea and gets less time than if she abandoned a puppy. Mothers who murder have been getting slaps on the hand. Some people refuse to believe that a mother could actually harm her child unless there is something mentally wrong with her. I think it is time that people realize that evil does exists and that just because a woman can open her legs for a man that does not mean that she is a mother.

 

[OneLostGrl]

http://www.cbsnews.com/i/tim/2011/11/16/Tyler+Dasher+1_540x405.jpg


fly with the angels little one

poor baby. RIP

 

[josie1986]

does anyone have a link to the emergency nursery care program? (i think thats what it is) id really like to look into what it is about and how it works etc.
there are alot of mothers in my area that have serious drug problems and they could use a place like this.id love to be able to try and set up something like that.

TIA

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

 

[lauriej]

does anyone have a link to the emergency nursery care program? (i think thats what it is) id really like to look into what it is about and how it works etc.
there are alot of mothers in my area that have serious drug problems and they could use a place like this.id love to be able to try and set up something like that.

TIA

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

http://www.crisisnurserykids.org/
St. Louis Crisis Nursery

http://www.cardinalglennon.com/Pages/Resources-StLouisCrisisNursery.aspx
--snipped--

St. Louis Crisis Nursery​

The St. Louis Crisis Nursery is committed to the prevention of child abuse and neglect and provides emergency intervention, respite care and support to families in crisis through:

 

[Rosemarie]

Wow... "Tyler's grandmother, who lived in the house with he and Shelby, was at the home, but authorities said she was not aware anything had occurred."

http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/286130/3/Shelby-Dasher-to-appear-in-court-on-suicide-watch

Shelby is to be arraigned this morning. Let's hope she just pleads guilty and doesn't lead this into a long drawn out trial with make believe defenses. Tyler deserves his "mother" to admit what he did to him and pay the consequences.

I don't believe that for a nano second.

 

[Rosemarie]

WOW I can't believe after a confession she would have the nerve to plead NG. I smell a insanity plea coming......

If that happens I hope it's denied.:furious::rage:

 

[Melanie]

I took a break yesterday after learning that this woman would be charged with second degree murder instead of first degree murder. I was so upset that once again a "mother" is treated differently than if a "father" had beaten the innocent baby to death. This woman deserves to be charged the ultimate charge for brutally beating Tyler Dasher to death. It isn't that she just hit him once out of anger and he died from that one blow. She continued to beat him until IMO, she either got tired of beating him or he was no longer making a sound, meaning he died. Why is this not premeditated murder? :maddening:

Oh, Hun, I know exactly how you feel. If it's any consolation, first degree would have to be proven to be pre-meditation (cold and calculated). Someone explained it earlier that the difference in 1st degree and 2nd degree is hot and cold. It has to be cold/calculated/pre-mediated for 1st degree. And 2nd degree hot/angry/tempered to be 2nd. And since there's no proof (yet) that SAD planned to kill Tyler, that's why she was charged with 2nd.

However, I feel that she could have...should have...stopped after 1 hit. Anything after the fact is pre-meditated IMHO. I guess the courts don't look at it that way

Fly with the angels, Tyler.

MOO

Mel

 

[josie1986]

http://www.crisisnurserykids.org/
St. Louis Crisis Nursery

http://www.cardinalglennon.com/Pages/Resources-StLouisCrisisNursery.aspx
--snipped--

St. Louis Crisis Nursery​

The St. Louis Crisis Nursery is committed to the prevention of child abuse and neglect and provides emergency intervention, respite care and support to families in crisis through:

ty,ive never really knew what i wanted to do with my life apart from being a mum but this seems like something that would be so worthwhile.

i have no idea how to go about looking into opening something like this though :waitasec:

 

[Melanie]

does anyone have a link to the emergency nursery care program? (i think thats what it is) id really like to look into what it is about and how it works etc.
there are alot of mothers in my area that have serious drug problems and they could use a place like this.id love to be able to try and set up something like that.

TIA

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

That's a really scary statement! Maybe I just don't realize how many children are in danger out there. I'd love to take some children into my home for a few hours a day (non-druggie-stay-at-home-mom-here-who's-only-addiction-is-webslueths).

After watching this case, I think it's something I really need to look into.

Mel

 

[The Farm]

Hi all,

Been laying low since the CA trial because I will never be the same which I am sure some of you have seen me post before.

Anyway here we go again, I think I understaqnd from the post above why she was charged with second degree but why when you say YES I killed my baby can you plead not guilty???
What am I missing here?

 

[lauriej]

Hi all,

Been laying low since the CA trial because I will never be the same which I am sure some of you have seen me post before.

Anyway here we go again, I think I understaqnd from the post above why she was charged with second degree but why when you say YES I killed my baby can you plead not guilty???
What am I missing here?

------posted earlier by "gitana1", an attorney..

"I see others have posted it but I will repeat, she did not enter a plea of guilty: The judge entered a not guilty plea on her behalf. That is standard at a preliminary hearing when the defendant lacks counsel. That's what the judge does. 20 year old entitled, spoiled Shelby probably had no clue why she was at the hearing and what it was for."

------followed by:

http://www.quizlaw.com/criminal_law/sho ... at_arr.php
Criminal Law Questions.

Should I plead guilty at arraignment?

The thing is, once you are charged with a crime, you are entitled to all sorts of Constitutional rights – like the right to a trial, the right to cross examination, and the right to present witnesses in your defense. Once you plead guilty at arraignment, however, all those rights go down the toilet – in fact, you’ll have to give up those rights on the record. It also means you’ve lost any opportunity to strike a plea deal.
So, plead guilty (or nolo contendre/no contest) at your own risk.

 

[josie1986]

That's a really scary statement! Maybe I just don't realize how many children are in danger out there. I'd love to take some children into my home for a few hours a day (non-druggie-stay-at-home-mom-here-who's-only-addiction-is-webslueths).

After watching this case, I think it's something I really need to look into.

Mel

i hate thinking about it but its kinda hard to bury your head in the sand though.

alcohols and domestic violence is a problem too. i have one friend who has to gorgeous girls and she gets no help,her partner is forever just going out with his friends and getting drunk leaving her to care for their children,a few occasions too he just goes out and starts fights with people outside their house.hes never hurt her or the children but a place like this could benefit her i think,even just a few hours on her own to do adult things. i know i would enjoy an hour to myself since its just me and the kids all the time.dont get me wrong i love my kids more than anything and i'd die to protect them but its hard to have a sensible conversation with a 1 and turning 3 year old :floorlaugh: