GUILTY MO - Tyler Dasher, 1, Affton, 15 Nov 2011 - #2

[Melanie]

snipped for space

I was trying to think of a way to say just that without being all "rah rah rah, Latino men are superior" or something. I'm (very) mixed and multicultural, but the culture I grew up most immersed in was a Mexican American one, and I have 9 (yes 9) latino brothers. now I'm married into a Puerto Rican family. It's not uncommon to see 13 year old boys dancing with babies at a wedding, or feeding them at home... they aren't burdened with this idea that babies spoil freedom, or ruin your life. They are easily accepted into daily life, whatever that daily life may be.

We have had so many acquaintances take issue with the fact that we don't really ever think to have babysitters... our first one was 8 years into parenting. And we've done it maybe 10 times total since then. People object and assert that we NEED it, but neither me or my husband have that mentality because of our cultural upbringing. People think we are rude when we decline an invitation to a coworker's home for a meal or game night that is intended to be sans kids, while we see an invitation that is intended to be sans kids sort of... odd... I guess. Like, if we're going to get a babysitter we'd go to a grown up movie, a fancy restaurant, or to a good old fashioned jazz club- places you can't take kids.

I know we can't judge an individual by cultural norms, and I wouldn't dare anyhow, but I do think that cultural norms are relevant at the very least. And IMO this happening would be even more mind boggling to someone raised in a culture where kids aren't a burden... and that's what I'm personally seeing in him, questioning Christine and just wanting answers. He doesn't understand.

MOO, I hope it isn't read as offensive or propagating stereotypes. I understand that generalities aren't conclusive to the individual.

BBM. I tend to agree. I'm European desent, and if I had to compare the two cultures it would be night and day (in general). In our home the dad didn't care for the child. Hell, my dad never even picked me up, let alone feed me, or hug me. DH's home as well. It was just the "norm". We were both raised by our SAH mothers, while dad worked and/or travelled. Growing up, I was often jealous when watching tv shows that portrayed the big latino family together cooking, huddled around their huge meals, singing and dancing. I can't remember the show I watched as a young kid - dang it. Maybe it'll come to me later.

I don't want to stereotype, because I know that many non-latino families do the same thing. But not in the neighborhood or family I grew up with. According to our sperm donars, children were to be seen and not heard. I learned that REAL fast.

To think that Tyler had so many people around him that loved him, and the incubator took him out, is truly disgusting!

Bless you Tyler - I just know if SAD's boyfriend could have saved him, he would have.

MOO

Mel

 

[bellesmomm]

I look back at my childhood freedom fondly as well. I grew up in Los Altos, Calif in the 50's and 60's. A safe and clean beautiful suburb with a creek flowing behind our houses and lots of open space. We rode our bikes around freely, visiting friends wherever and whenever, not going home until dusk.

I moved my family to a very similar suburb in Ventura County. Our kids rode their bikes around and walked to their elementary school, trick or treated without us lurking right behind them. But it is indeed not strangers that are the biggest danger. IMO, it is the threats that lure them into dark places--like drugs/alcohol/casual sex etc.

To me, the freedom that I am afraid to allow is the freedom to allow them to make their own friends and choose their own cliques to hang out with. That is where the hidden dangers lie.





There is another thread that was started here in this forum, about the 18 yr old in Thousand Oaks Calif that od'ed on heroin and cocaine. His friends have been arrested for involuntary manslaughter. Those are kids the next town over and my daughter knows all of them socially. She grew up with them all. I have had several of them over to the house for birthday parties and graduation parties over the past decade. Then I read in the paper that one boy that I have known and loved and respected, his family included, was arrested for selling heroin and cocaine. His family I have known from school and sports functions. They are very involved and responsible parents. Right now they are devastated.

I also have this same fear.... its getting into dangerous situations that they cannot get out of making quick (wrong) decisions that end up ruining the rest of their lives or en up costing them their lives that is what terrifies me.
We do everything we can as parents to protect our babies. Heck I think I am over protective I know I am. My child will probably go wild crazy :great: when she gets to college (although we will probably follow her around like the secret service never thought about) :rocker: BUT. I had a bad thing happen in my family so ya, I tend to be overly cautious! (and I read way too much here and watch the news)

 

[Mels3kidz]

Yes!!! Oh thank you thank you I'm NOT crazy! I was sure I'd seen that but hadn't been able to find footage anywhere. So why do you think he has it? If it was evidence, wouldn't it be bagged?

I can't remember but were dogs used? If so the doll could be there for the scent.

Melissa (trying to get caught up but failing)

 

[Abby Normal]

I look back at my childhood freedom fondly as well. I grew up in Los Altos, Calif in the 50's and 60's. A safe and clean beautiful suburb with a creek flowing behind our houses and lots of open space. We rode our bikes around freely, visiting friends wherever and whenever, not going home until dusk.

I moved my family to a very similar suburb in Ventura County. Our kids rode their bikes around and walked to their elementary school, trick or treated without us lurking right behind them. But it is indeed not strangers that are the biggest danger. IMO, it is the threats that lure them into dark places--like drugs/alcohol/casual sex etc.

To me, the freedom that I am afraid to allow is the freedom to allow them to make their own friends and choose their own cliques to hang out with. That is where the hidden dangers lie.

There is another thread that was started here in this forum, about the 18 yr old in Thousand Oaks Calif that od'ed on heroin and cocaine. His friends have been arrested for involuntary manslaughter. Those are kids the next town over and my daughter knows all of them socially. She grew up with them all. I have had several of them over to the house for birthday parties and graduation parties over the past decade. Then I read in the paper that one boy that I have known and loved and respected, his family included, was arrested for selling heroin and cocaine. His family I have known from school and sports functions. They are very involved and responsible parents. Right now they are devastated.

From what I understand of her theory, the reason (she feels) that teens and young adults are making such horrible decisions is that they never had the freedom to discover their own critical thinking skills for decision making while young enough that their consequences were pretty minimal. We keep them close until they are essentially behind a wheel and being exposed to drugs, and suddenly mom or dad isn't there to make decisions for you anymore and you go with "fun" because you haven't discovered the merit of "safe" and "right" of your own accord. She basically says that we (and our parents before us) were more prepared for adulthood because we had more freedom and were able to make more small mistakes as kids when the consequences weren't so much life or death. Theoretically, those small mistakes prepare us for big decisions. This is just what I've gathered with limited reading, I assume she could explain her thoughts better than I could at this point.

This is OT, I know, but I think it relates to why some parents may be ill prepared for the responsibility of their own child while others step up.

That said, again, I've only just looked at the surface of this movement, and haven't really dissected it- so I'm not advocating it. It's just a concept I find interesting and relevant. It's just one more perspective to entertain.

 

[josie1986]

just catching up here on the last few days,had a very sick little boy so not had anytime to be around.

her bf,i dont think he is lying he seems sincere.when he's talking about walking through the cemetry and says he must have walked past tyler i could see the hurt in his eyes when he broke down.i couldnt help but have tears steaming down my cheeks.if he is lying well i will eat my socks in a sandwhich.

its a nice thing that grandma is giving tyles things to the crisis nursery but i cant help think that tyler may have died or been harmed in his crib so thata kinda creepy i wouldnt want to put my baby in there.i know she is just trying to do a good thing after this tragedy by helping other babies,i really do feel for her. i hope msm let her greive in peace cause i know my mum would be a total wreck or close to a breakdown

im still stunned by this absolutly no reason that this had to happpen. :angel:
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

 

[belimom]

I was thinking about what LE said regarding this being "hot blooded" rather than "cold blooded". I disagree. I understand the context/sentiment (i.e., it was her temper), but I think other than that, it was as cold-blooded as they come. No remorse (that anyone can tell), dumping him the way she did, etc. IMO, even hot-blooded murderers sometimes are extremely sorry for what they did afterwards in the heat of the moment. I see none of that here. :furious:

 

[josie1986]

I was thinking about what LE said regarding this being "hot blooded" rather than "cold blooded". I disagree. I understand the context/sentiment (i.e., it was her temper), but I think other than that, I was as cold-blooded as they come. No remorse (that anyone can tell), dumping him the way she did, etc. IMO, even hot-blooded murderers sometimes are extremely sorry for what they did afterwards in the heat of the moment. I see none of that here. :furious:

i agree,the video of her walking down the street and u see her laughing about something....that shows no remorse IMO.she knew what she had done yet you see her and shes not upset frantic worried anything,jeez dare i say it but deborah bradley even managed some crocodile tears (JMO) but all you see is her calm and and laughing.

if she were remorseful IMO she wouldn't have left him like that,its like she just walked up to that spot and tossed him down and walked away,i think if she was remorseful she would have covered him up or something like that.

 

[Rooster27]

I viewed the doll, the day the mom was already being arrested for "murder" as a generic type of doll that they would be using to have the mother demonstrate what she did to her poor little baby. This was probably not Tyler's doll, if it was evdience, it would be bagged.

I have read only a couple of times in this thread about mental illness possibly affecting the mother. Possibly she is not diagnosed. Many mental illnesses take over seemingly well people, in their late teens to early twenties. And sometimes the first time anyone notices is when there is an episode. This happened with my beautiful cousin. She has never violently hurt someone, but mental illness takes many forms and has moderate to extreme affects.

Shelby could be bi-polar, and having a manic episode. Marijuana and alcohol affect people with mental illness to a great degree as well and if she was doing either, it could have triggered an episode. I was living with someone who was showing signs of manic behavior all of a sudden, I felt he was a stranger. He would acuse me of pestering him when i would ask him what was wrong. He started to take things out on me. He was acting strangely, this was abrupt. I tried to endure it because we had been so close. I had a job that took me out of town, i guess fortunately for me. when i got back to our apartment it worsened. within a few weeks i was on the ground with a telephone cord wrapped around my neck and a black eye. He went to work the next day, and I put all of his stuff on the staircase of the building and changed the lock on the door. Then I went home to my parents for awhle. He didn't come after me, it didn't seem that it was thought thru, his anger. it was spur of the moment and he was obviously sick. He ended leaving the city and sleeping in his mother's car in his birth city.

It was quoted that the birth father of Tyler said that when looking at Shelby's mug shot, that it was not the woman he knew. I could have said that of my former boyfriend. And it happened overnight. I am not saying everyone with mental illness is dangerous. But some are. I have had both cases in my life.

I do not condone anything. I actually cried over this one when hearing what happened. But she may not be evil, she may just be very sick. People that do not have mental illness in their past, may not understand this.

 

[Nefriahaia]

i agree,the video of her walking down the street and u see her laughing about something....that shows no remorse IMO.she knew what she had done yet you see her and shes not upset frantic worried anything,jeez dare i say it but deborah bradley even managed some crocodile tears (JMO) but all you see is her calm and and laughing.

if she were remorseful IMO she wouldn't have left him like that,its like she just walked up to that spot and tossed him down and walked away,i think if she was remorseful she would have covered him up or something like that.

IMHO she has no conscience.

 

[AlmostGone]

i agree,the video of her walking down the street and u see her laughing about something....that shows no remorse IMO.she knew what she had done yet you see her and shes not upset frantic worried anything,jeez dare i say it but deborah bradley even managed some crocodile tears (JMO) but all you see is her calm and and laughing.

if she were remorseful IMO she wouldn't have left him like that,its like she just walked up to that spot and tossed him down and walked away,i think if she was remorseful she would have covered him up or something like that.

I kinda wonder why she picked the cemetery to put the baby? is it possible she did have a little remorse at the time even though she was seen laughing? Maybe she put him there because it was a cemetery and she knew she wouldn't be going to a funeral.. I'm just wondering what you guys think of that?

 

[JeannaT]

I kinda wonder why she picked the cemetery to put the baby? is it possible she did have a little remorse at the time even though she was seen laughing? Maybe she put him there because it was a cemetery and she knew she wouldn't be going to a funeral.. I'm just wondering what you guys think of that?

I thought about that, but I'm still surprised about this whole thing. The medical examiner (someone in LE?) was surprised that a parent would beat a child to death but there were no signs of prior abuse, she dumped this baby that by ALL accounts she loved without wrapping him, etc.

I'm a real believer in patterns of crimes, and she doesn't fit them.

 

[katydid23]

I kinda wonder why she picked the cemetery to put the baby? is it possible she did have a little remorse at the time even though she was seen laughing? Maybe she put him there because it was a cemetery and she knew she wouldn't be going to a funeral.. I'm just wondering what you guys think of that?

I think the reason she put the baby in the cemetery was she was hoping to point the blame at her boyfriend. She had called and invited him to walk over for breakfast. She KNEW that he walked through the cemetery to get to her house. I think she wanted to be able to place him in that area that morning of need be.

 

[Flutterby80]

I suppose that a manic episode would explain the complete (according to friends and family) change in behavior. Please understand that I am not equating an explanation with an excuse. Nothing excuses killing your baby, IMO. If she does end up being diagnosed, I also don't think it should shorten her sentence at all. She can be treated and counseled during her time in prison, but she still needs to do every second of it. And I hope she's locked away until she's too old to have more babies. At least that long.

 

[katydid23]

I hadn't heard that she invited Tyler's father over for breakfast. Are you thinking of her boyfriend, Edgar?

Oh yes., sorry. The boyfriend. I will edit the post.

 

[mikeysmommom]

AS far as thinking Shelby could be bi-polar, and having a manic episode I am not buying it for a minute!My Mom was bi-polar,manic depressive I was born in 1959 her 3rd child,his was way before they knew how to treat it.She was never on meds till I was in my 20's.She NEVER hurt any of us nor allowed any man to come before us after my parents divorced.When pressures of life got to her she would become very depressed and cry for days,not eating,saying she wished she was a better mother or she would be so happy,going out dancing or going on cheap shopping sprees.She worked 1 regular job,and was also a waitress about 4 nights a week,till something set off a spell then off to hospital for months till she was better.It drives me insane when MURDERING MOMSERS are called BI-POLAR.I really think my mom must have been misdiagnosed.Sorry to ramble.

 

[TheDuchess]

I kinda wonder why she picked the cemetery to put the baby? is it possible she did have a little remorse at the time even though she was seen laughing? Maybe she put him there because it was a cemetery and she knew she wouldn't be going to a funeral.. I'm just wondering what you guys think of that?

I think she put him there so that her boyfriend would see him and report him missing and perhaps even try to help him and put his DNA on the baby.

I bet she was a bit disappointed that he showed up and nothing was "wrong." Then she had to go with Plan B.

The more I think about it, the more I think she didn't "snap" and that she planned this. "I've got to get out of Affton...."

 

[TheDuchess]

AS far as thinking Shelby could be bi-polar, and having a manic episode I am not buying it for a minute!My Mom was bi-polar,manic depressive I was born in 1959 her 3rd child,his was way before they knew how to treat it.She was never on meds till I was in my 20's.She NEVER hurt any of us nor allowed any man to come before us after my parents divorced.When pressures of life got to her she would become very depressed and cry for days,not eating,saying she wished she was a better mother or she would be so happy,going out dancing or going on cheap shopping sprees.She worked 1 regular job,and was also a waitress about 4 nights a week,till something set off a spell then off to hospital for months till she was better.It drives me insane when MURDERING MOMSERS are called BI-POLAR.I really think my mom must have been misdiagnosed.Sorry to ramble.

<modsnip> I think a conversation about possible mental illness can be very relevant to the discussion for severals reasons. First, mental illness is real and not very well understood. Second, while mental illness is typically NOT a defense for murder, it can and is often times brought up as a possible defense.

<modsnip>

ETA: I do NOT believe that SAD is mentally ill. I believe she is pure evil. Only an evil person can beat her own innocent baby to death, but leave him naked and face down in the bushes. And then try to frame other innocent people for her brutal crime. JMO

 

[Flutterby80]

It's hard to reconcile a mother planning to violently murder her own baby but I have to wonder if Shelby didn't put some thought into this myself. People are expendable to Shelby. She beat her own small child to death and threw him away like garbage. It really isn't then hard to believe that she would intentionally set her boyfriend and his roommate up to take the fall.

The more I think about this case, I keep thinking about that gap of hours between the time grandma left for work and the text Shelby sent her boyfriend. Without looking back, wasn't that text around 10:30 am? Grandma left at 7:30 so that gives Shelby 3 hours to kill Tyler, dump his body and hatch some sort of a coverup. If Shelby killed Tyler not long after grandma left, that gives her considerable time to plan. Do any of you believe she napped? I really can't imagine it, but I guess anything is possible. It seems more logical to me, though, that she spent that time trying to figure out how to keep herself out of trouble because obviously to Shelby it was all about me me me.

 

[mikeysmommom]

It's hard to reconcile a mother planning to violently murder her own baby but I have to wonder if Shelby didn't put some thought into this myself. People are expendable to Shelby. She beat her own small child to death and threw him away like garbage. It really isn't then hard to believe that she would intentionally set her boyfriend and his roommate up to take the fall.

The more I think about this case, I keep thinking about that gap of hours between the time grandma left for work and the text Shelby sent her boyfriend. Without looking back, wasn't that text around 10:30 am? Grandma left at 7:30 so that gives Shelby 3 hours to kill Tyler, dump his body and hatch some sort of a coverup. If Shelby killed Tyler not long after grandma left, that gives her considerable time to plan. Do any of you believe she napped? I really can't imagine it, but I guess anything is possible. It seems more logical to me, though, that she spent that time trying to figure out how to keep herself out of trouble because obviously to Shelby it was all about me me me.

I agree,IMO she planned it or at least heard of baby Lisa and thought to use that story to her advantage.On Shelby's facebook she only had pictures of Tyler at about 6 months old,probably when the fun part of being a mommy started to change to resentment JMO. I have a feeling the Grand Jury may bump her charges to 1st degree after more info is obtained.

 

[mikeysmommom]

http://obits.dignitymemorial.com/di...id=4889519&locale=en_US#.TsjEX4GgDs0.facebook

That poor family,I feel so badly for the Dad,And Grandparents of Tyler.