GUILTY MO - Zemir Begic, 32, beaten to death, St Louis, 30 Nov 2014

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prayers4missing said:
I lived in that neighborhood roughly 20 years ago and IMHO it has gone to chit in the last 12 years or so. It was once a place where I rode my bike around and walked back and forth to school alone.

My teen daughter has a friend that currently lives in the neighborhood and its really not as safe as it used to be.

Lots of gang activity and drugs. This summer I got stuck behind a car driving down the street maybe 3 blocks from the attack selling drugs out of his window at 7am!! Moo


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Thanks for giving us a better perspective! I know we can trust you to tell us everything straight. :thumb:

So is this bad area just a small neighborhood within a larger, nice Bosnian district? Is the nice Bosnian community with nice homes a myth coming from them? Or is it just a small portion of a larger, ugly Bosnian district?

Thanks. I'm having trouble getting a read for things with the conflicting information. You're the only one I trust.

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Obviously, the facts are not in - time will tell if it was a random attack, a grudge killing or a hate crime. Mr Begic was born in Bosnia - I don't care if he came here from Saturn - it's a sad day in America for this to have happened.

(The title's dangling phrase is making me crazy. Would a mod change it to guys with hammers attack ZG?)
 
Muffet said:
Thanks for giving us a better perspective! I know we can trust you to tell us everything straight. :thumb:

So is this bad area just a small neighborhood within a larger, nice Bosnian district? Is the nice Bosnian community with nice homes a myth coming from them? Or is it just a small portion of a larger, ugly Bosnian district?

Thanks. I'm having trouble getting a read for things with the conflicting information. You're the only one I trust.

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The area around Bevo Mill is a mixed bag of people probably more Bosnian than anything but definitely other groups thrown in. I would say it's more like a few good blocks thrown into an overall not great area. I personally would not feel comfortable walking in the area alone ever even during the daytime, never at night.

I always wondered if it's nice just because they came here from a horrible situation you know? I think there are a few blocks that are nice now but still no where near as nice as it was when I lived there.

Most, if not all, of the businesses in the area are all now Bosnian owned and operated. A couple of the Bosnian bars in the area were destroyed maybe 5 years ago during a Bosnian gang dispute. Moo


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prayers4missing said:
The area around Bevo Mill is a mixed bag of people probably more Bosnian than anything but definitely other groups thrown in. I would say it's more like a few good blocks thrown into an overall not great area. I personally would not feel comfortable walking in the area alone ever even during the daytime, never at night.

I always wondered if it's nice just because they came here from a horrible situation you know? I think there are a few blocks that are nice now but still no where near as nice as it was when I lived there.

Most, if not all, of the businesses in the area are all now Bosnian owned and operated. A couple of the Bosnian bars in the area were destroyed maybe 5 years ago during a Bosnian gang dispute. Moo


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Wow. Thank you for painting the picture for us.

I can see why nobody wants to see the two groups go to war if both have already shown a willingness to destroy their own.

Still SMH. All I can process is gladness that I'm not LE or in any other form of responsibility. :sigh:

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wfgodot said:
Daily Mail....

EXCLUSIVE: Bosnian immigrant murdered by teenagers wielding hammers was victim
of 'targeted killing' says fiancée whom he saved from mob who surrounded car in St Louis
Click to expand...

gonna have to re-read the other articles to see if they reference her mom's boyfriend as "ex" - hopefully l/e has gotten a statement from both of them (and we'll get to see it!)

edit - it didn't carry the dailymail quote with the post:

The fiancée of a Bosnian man beaten to death in a hammer attack in St Louis has claimed that it was a targeted killing - but not because of his race.

Arijana Mujkanovic said that Zemir Begic was murdered because of a row with her mother's ex-boyfriend a few weeks ago which led to the 'set up'.
---
 
Starry Night said:
It is a moral crime of the worst nature. Nothing else. Nothing to do with race, ethnicity, Ferguson issues etc. A crime committed by human beings.
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I agree to a point. It might be brushed off as semantic, but anyone who studies history or social studies can see the difference between race vs culture vs subculture.

I think there are many red flags flying from a few subcultures, and ignoring or refusing to seek common denominators within each has two unnecessary consequences:

1. It implies that we all cannot separate the race from the subculture.

2. The cancer grows, because those who can't or won't recognize the difference conflate it with race, get defensive, and won't let anyone talk freely about the subculture.

You can't fix problems if you ignore the whole foundation.

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Muffet said:
I agree to a point. It might be brushed off as semantic, but anyone who studies history or social studies can see the difference between race vs culture vs subculture.

I think there are many red flags flying from a few subcultures, and ignoring or refusing to seek common denominators within each has two unnecessary consequences:

1. It implies that we all cannot separate the race from the subculture.

2. The cancer grows, because those who can't or won't recognize the difference conflate it with race, get defensive, and won't let anyone talk freely about the subculture.

You can't fix problems if you ignore the whole foundation.

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The foundation of any human culture/sub-culture is that they are human first. The culture doesn't come into play for eons lol.
 
Muffet said:
If you look for discussions out there by people local to the area, you'll get a big picture of the history and social dynamics of the community.

I'll look for a link, but apparently, it's a small, closely knit community of Bosnian immigrants (I assume all are aware of their tragic history).

They have been complaining to authorities about dramatically increasing violent assaults on persons, although other non-personal crimes have gone down.

LE is not calling it a hate crime yet, but taking some blame for not having enough LEOs to cover that area while they deal with the protests.

Does anyone know how close this neighborhood is to Ferguson? I read a local say very close, but I don't know for sure.

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Probably has been answered but probably 30 to 45 minutes away drive time. No real easy way to get from one to the other.
 
Starry Night said:
The foundation of any human culture/sub-culture is that they are human first. The culture doesn't come into play for eons lol.
Click to expand...
:idea: Humanity is the cement! :thumb:

If we keep going, we could build a mansion. :lol:

(This metaphor is big with me right now, because in the last month, we got a crack in the tiles of our kitchen. :facepalm:)

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Muffet said:
Thanks for giving us a better perspective! I know we can trust you to tell us everything straight. :thumb:

So is this bad area just a small neighborhood within a larger, nice Bosnian district? Is the nice Bosnian community with nice homes a myth coming from them? Or is it just a small portion of a larger, ugly Bosnian district?

Thanks. I'm having trouble getting a read for things with the conflicting information. You're the only one I trust.

Sent from Tapatalk
Click to expand...



It's somewhat like Ferguson. Nice area with a bad element to it. Just exchange Bosnian for black.

I agree with prayer about how the area used to be. I didn't live there but my grandmother did. St. Louis had a large influx of Bosnian immigrants. Some good. Some bad. I wouldn't want to get on the bad side of the bad ones. I had one run in when I was playing in a municipal softball league in the area. The league had the fields reserved and City employees umpiring the games. A group of Bosnians set up soccer goals on the field and the umpires tried to get them to move. They wouldn't. Umpire threatened to call the cops and the response was "We kill cops where we come from." Don't know if it was just bravado or they really did, but am glad the cooler heads in their group prevailed and I didn't have to find out. Was also told by a client, so I don't know how true it is, about how one beef was settled by gasoline being poured on another and lit on fire.

Having said that, like Ferguson, the good outweighs the bad, though one might not know it. They are a very proud community. In fact, one of their own from St. Louis played for the Bosnian soccer team in the last world cup. I believe St. Louis has the largest Bosnian community in the States so it's not such a small community.
 
Reedus are you talking about Wilmore Park? I had a run in on a softball field there that a few years ago.


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reedus23 said:
It's somewhat like Ferguson. Nice area with a bad element to it. Just exchange Bosnian for black.

I agree with prayer about how the area used to be. I didn't live there but my grandmother did. St. Louis had a large influx of Bosnian immigrants. Some good. Some bad. I wouldn't want to get on the bad side of the bad ones. I had one run in when I was playing in a municipal softball league in the area. The league had the fields reserved and City employees umpiring the games. A group of Bosnians set up soccer goals on the field and the umpires tried to get them to move. They wouldn't. Umpire threatened to call the cops and the response was "We kill cops where we come from." Don't know if it was just bravado or they really did, but am glad the cooler heads in their group prevailed and I didn't have to find out. Was also told by a client, so I don't know how true it is, about how one beef was settled by gasoline being poured on another and lit on fire.

Having said that, like Ferguson, the good outweighs the bad, though one might not know it. They are a very proud community. In fact, one of their own from St. Louis played for the Bosnian soccer team in the last world cup. I believe St. Louis has the largest Bosnian community in the States so it's not such a small community.
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Fascinating. Thanks, reedus! You can't get this information from a map or simple demographic charts.

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wfgodot said:
Daily Mail....

EXCLUSIVE: Bosnian immigrant murdered by teenagers wielding hammers was victim
of 'targeted killing' says fiancée whom he saved from mob who surrounded car in St Louis
Click to expand...

I don't think this was a targeted attack by anyone Zemir Begic knew. These "teens" had already attacked someone else an hour earlier, unless there were two packs of roving "teens". It may be that Zemir had been in an argument with someone he knew at an earlier time, but I doubt his murder was in any way connected. <modsnip>
 
dandy said:
gonna have to re-read the other articles to see if they reference her mom's boyfriend as "ex" - hopefully l/e has gotten a statement from both of them (and we'll get to see it!)

edit - it didn't carry the dailymail quote with the post:

The fiancée of a Bosnian man beaten to death in a hammer attack in St Louis has claimed that it was a targeted killing - but not because of his race.

Arijana Mujkanovic said that Zemir Begic was murdered because of a row with her mother's ex-boyfriend a few weeks ago which led to the 'set up'.
---
Click to expand...

So DM is the only outlet reporting this?
 
Just how bad could it get in there area if all h..l breaks out in the area between the Bosnians and the protester that are there now?
Would they need to bring in even more NG?
 
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