Mothers say Texas raid forced them to market their clothing style

[mrsjonnob]

There are LOTS of religions which have dress restrictions for women - in some Assembly Of God churches the women wear no pants (only dresses), no cosmetics and they do not cut their hair and wear it "up" only after marriage. The Duggar Family (of 19 kids, Quiverfull fame) believes in modest dress for women - no pants, long skirts, little make-up etc. A LOT of fundamentalist Christian families (not LDS) embrace what they calll "modest" dress for women and there are many places online to purchase such clothing - including swimsuits. Some religions require it (both Christian and Muslim) and in other cases it is a personal belief. The LDS (and FLDS) church also requires the special underwear - in the LDS church it is only when you are married - or get "Temple Membership" that you are required to wear it - and it does restrict clothing styles - can't even wear sleeveless or tank tops or above the knee shorts while wearing it - and a traditional swimsuit is pretty much out of the question. Even religions who don't have mandated clothing requirements push "modest" attire for women - MANY Church Camps require one piece "modest" swimsuits or that the girls wear clothing OVER the swimsuit, and require shorts that fall less than 4" above the top of the knee cap and shirts be "regular" plain mens style T-shirts with sleeves 10" long or longer and high necks and sleepwear be pajamas with pants. ALL the kids cannot bring clothes or shoes with words, graphics or "offensive" logos on them.

While MOST women do not feel it is necessary to dress themselves and their their female children in clothing from 1890 and wear special religious long-underwear COVERED by leggings to be properly "faithful" it is far from rare to encounter women whose clothing choices are mandated by their faith - even in the Christian predominated good-ol USA. The Amish, Mennonite, Assembly Of God, LDS, and many independent Christian Churches ALL have clothing restrictions - some more rigid than others, but ALL focused mainly on attire and appearance for females being restricted to some degree.

I will look, I used to have some links filed of several websites selling "modest" clothing for teenagers. It can be lucrative as most of it is custom-made.

My Opinion

Just wanted to note that LDS men and women do not wear their garments when they wear a swimsuit. Modest swimwear is encouraged- most one- piece styles and tankinis that do not show midriff skin are perfectly acceptable for public display among the LDS.

 

[FlowerChild]

Just wanted to note that LDS men and women do not wear their garments when they wear a swimsuit. Modest swimwear is encouraged- most one- piece styles and tankinis that do not show midriff skin are perfectly acceptable for public display among the LDS.

Thanks for the insight mrsjonnob, I do know some LDS'ers and many of them do not wear traditional "swimwear" - even modest one piece suits in public because of their "garments". They do swim in regular really modest swimsuits (and I mean REALLY modest, I have seen them drying) in private at home with only family (or so they tell me) - They never specified if they wear (or don't wear) their garmants while swimming at home and it's none of my business so I never asked. I guess they are carrying it to an extreme by not swimming in public, but that's their interpretation. Now these are all married adults with children - and their kids (not wearing garments yet) do wear regular modest swimsuits and swim in public in them, just not the parents. M&D usually wear modest shorts and t-shirts and sometimes sit by the pool with feet in or wade, but no swimsuits in "public" for them.

They are all nice people with lovely families and most are pretty open about their beliefs with us because although we don't wish to embrace LDS ourselves, we do have an understanding of their faith and are very accepting and non-judgemental. We have friends from several faiths - including some many people have difficulty understanding - like Christian Scientists. We are just very tolerant and find joy in having a wide variety of friends and don't mind accomodating/accepting their beliefs when we are together without judging. To us it isn't what they believe that's important, it's what sort of people they are and how they treat others.

That's where my issues with FLDS come in, I feel they are NOT treating others well, especially the older children - both girls and boys and women in general. I just cannot condone that as a part of their "faith". They can have as many spouses as they can support and have as many children as they can support - so long as the spouses are there in the relationship of their own free will (and LOVE) and are over 18. And any children should have their parents support until they are 18 - no sending them away with no money or support or education. Even the Amish do not accept their children into their faith until they are at least 18 and have had an opportunity to explore the alternatives, with the blessing and support of their family and church.

Free will FLDS, you should try it - if you really believe in your faith and have faith, then your children and other people who are similarly led to join the church as adults will come to you, and be happy to be there. It's that whole "if you really love something or someone, set it/them free, and if it is right, it/they will come back to you with blessings ten-fold".

My Opinion

 

[mrsjonnob]

Thanks for the insight mrsjonnob, I do know some LDS'ers and many of them do not wear traditional "swimwear" - even modest one piece suits in public because of their "garments". They do swim in regular really modest swimsuits (and I mean REALLY modest, I have seen them drying) in private at home with only family (or so they tell me) - They never specified if they wear (or don't wear) their garmants while swimming at home and it's none of my business so I never asked. I guess they are carrying it to an extreme by not swimming in public, but that's their interpretation. Now these are all married adults with children - and their kids (not wearing garments yet) do wear regular modest swimsuits and swim in public in them, just not the parents. M&D usually wear modest shorts and t-shirts and sometimes sit by the pool with feet in or wade, but no swimsuits in "public" for them.

They are all nice people with lovely families and most are pretty open about their beliefs with us because although we don't wish to embrace LDS ourselves, we do have an understanding of their faith and are very accepting and non-judgemental. We have friends from several faiths - including some many people have difficulty understanding - like Christian Scientists. We are just very tolerant and find joy in having a wide variety of friends and don't mind accomodating/accepting their beliefs when we are together without judging. To us it isn't what they believe that's important, it's what sort of people they are and how they treat others.

That's where my issues with FLDS come in, I feel they are NOT treating others well, especially the older children - both girls and boys and women in general. I just cannot condone that as a part of their "faith". They can have as many spouses as they can support and have as many children as they can support - so long as the spouses are there in the relationship of their own free will (and LOVE) and are over 18. And any children should have their parents support until they are 18 - no sending them away with no money or support or education. Even the Amish do not accept their children into their faith until they are at least 18 and have had an opportunity to explore the alternatives, with the blessing and support of their family and church.

Free will FLDS, you should try it - if you really believe in your faith and have faith, then your children and other people who are similarly led to join the church as adults will come to you, and be happy to be there. It's that whole "if you really love something or someone, set it/them free, and if it is right, it/they will come back to you with blessings ten-fold".

My Opinion

Maybe I am a more "Liberal Mormon". LOL I let my teenager girls sunbathe/swim at home in bikinis and they can wear traditional tankinis as long as the top touches the bottoms. They never have a hard time finding appropriate swimsuits.

Maybe it's a regional thing, because all of my LDS friends swim in regular swimsuits at public pools and at parties where there are LDS and non LDS attending. I am having a pool party this Friday night with both LDS members and non-members.

 

[PSUfan]

You ever notice how ALL the clothing restrictions - no matter where in the world or what the reason for it - always seem to focus on only women? My complaint is that in every case it is MEN deciding how WOMEN should dress. Never is it women deciding how other women should dress, always men deciding how women should dress.

Attire 2000 years ago in the Middle-East or the Holy Land is hardly applicable to modern life - any more than stoning adulterers and giving a widow to her father-in-law or brother-in-law as another wife (Biblical) is. Both "Holy Books" (Qur'an and Bible) dictate moral, humble behavior - which later was interpreted to mean many other things - all the way to women covering every part of their body in a loose sack in public. None of that is in the texts, it's merely an interpretation of words written in/for a society in a much different world 2000 or more years ago.

Attire should be an individual choice based on ones own beliefs and moral code. If an adult woman decided to dress in a garment that covers her head to toe, great, so long as it was her own decision to do so, not some male figurehead's mandate. Children should dress in a way that pleases their PARENTS, again, not a mandate from someone else. It's a given that if the parents prefer modest attire, they will dress their children in a modest way until that child is 18. Regardless, as long as they are "covered" minimally, it really shouldn't matter what a person wears because it isn't OUR DECISION. We can disapprove but we really shouldn't try to legislate attire for other people because we don't like it.

America was founded to escape religious tyranny and state-mandated religion. That includes freedom from mandated attire based on ANY religion/faith. Anytime we think about trying to legislate morality (including what people wear) remember that the 1st step to Theocracy and Tyranny is to control what people wear - those yellow "Star of David" badges in Hitler's Germany were part of a much larger plan for "State" control of people's minds and lives.

My Opinion

Not true with the Amish and Mennonites.

 

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

Maybe I am a more "Liberal Mormon". LOL I let my teenager girls sunbathe/swim at home in bikinis and they can wear traditional tankinis as long as the top touches the bottoms. They never have a hard time finding appropriate swimsuits.

Maybe it's a regional thing, because all of my LDS friends swim in regular swimsuits at public pools and at parties where there are LDS and non LDS attending. I am having a pool party this Friday night with both LDS members and non-members.

I don't think it is a regional thing. I think it is an extremist thing when LDS create swimsuits to cover their garments. I did know one guy that wore a wet suit in the pool (at an LDS University) and everyone else thought he was extreme. We respected him, but we weren't going to join this new fashion trend. I think the example of the parents at the pool with shorts that are wading is more usual for parents that do not want to take off their garments for swimming.

I'm with you Mrsjonnob! I have wear a one piece swimsuit. As a single adult I wore tankinis. I never wore bikini's though a few of my friends did. My kids will be wearing one piece swimsuits. As teens I'll let them wear tankinis. If I still had a teenage body I'd be wearing a much cuter swimsuit. :crazy:

 

[FlowerChild]

Not true with the Amish and Mennonites.

Old Order Amish/Mennonite men do wear somewhat restricted clothing - but not nearly as restricted as the women do. An Amish man does not look so out of place in the "English" world as the women do and their clothing is appropriate for farm work - the women must wear modest long dresses and stockings no matter what they are doing. Both men and women wear dark colored plain home-made clothing and all clothing is made without any zippers (they use buttons or hooks and eyes). Men do not wear ties - but overall their clothing is not THAT much different than what non-Amish men wear. Both men and women cover their heads - the women do not cut their hair and the married men are bearded - but do NOT wear a mustache. The married women wear their hair up under their bonnet. Women are traditionally buried in their wedding dress, which is blue or purple. Neither wears any jewelry - even a wedding ring is forbidden. They do not use ANY electricity or phones and do not drive or own cars.

Conservative Mennonites can wear clothing in colors and can own a conservative car either white or grey and they do have limited access to some modern technology - like TV and computer and radio and phones.

Both the the Amish and Mennonite faiths are very male dominated - the men make ALL the decisions and decide what is allowed, and what is not.

My Opinion

 

[PSUfan]

Old Order Amish/Mennonite men do wear somewhat restricted clothing - but not nearly as restricted as the women do. An Amish man does not look so out of place in the "English" world as the women do and their clothing is appropriate for farm work - the women must wear modest long dresses and stockings no matter what they are doing. Both men and women wear dark colored plain home-made clothing and all clothing is made without any zippers (they use buttons or hooks and eyes). Men do not wear ties - but overall their clothing is not THAT much different than what non-Amish men wear. Both men and women cover their heads - the women do not cut their hair and the married men are bearded - but do NOT wear a mustache. The married women wear their hair up under their bonnet. Women are traditionally buried in their wedding dress, which is blue or purple. Neither wears any jewelry - even a wedding ring is forbidden. They do not use ANY electricity or phones and do not drive or own cars.

Conservative Mennonites can wear clothing in colors and can own a conservative car either white or grey and they do have limited access to some modern technology - like TV and computer and radio and phones.

Both the the Amish and Mennonite faiths are very male dominated - the men make ALL the decisions and decide what is allowed, and what is not.

My Opinion

I have Old Order Amish neighbors, and relatives`(my mother was Old Order Amish), and believe me, the men stand out in a non Amish public just as well as the women do. The women do not have to wear stockings "no matter what they do". They are likely to be the first in town to be seen barefoot and barelegged (from calf length of so)in warm weather.

I don't mean to be argumentive, but having such close ties to the Old Order Amish, and Mennonites gives me a pretty good view of them. While the men run the Church, as is tradition since the beginning (same with many other religions), the women share in running the family, just as in "English" families. They share in decision making, etc. They have many of the same dynamics as any other family might have.

The old-order amish men, working in the fields, look stifling hot in the black clothing.. but they are often barefoot, just like the women are.

 

[mrsjonnob]

I recently watched the show Devil's Playground on the National Geographic channel about the Amish (and the teenagers rumspringa). I was surprised to see the families bare legged and with bare feet- the children even attended worship services without shoes and socks. Not that it is a big deal to me, my kids have all taken off their shoes and socks at church at one time, I guess I just also had that same belief about the Amish.

If you haven't seen that show, I would watch for it to come back on- it was very interesting.