Motive: The Truck

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RyeGuy#1 said:
The article above is dealing with the newer 6.7L Cummins from 2007.5 and newer (this is what I was referring to in my prior post as the most undesirable of the Cummins engines). Its not really the CAT that is being stolen but the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter) which is notorious for plugging with diesel soot and puts the whole engine in jeopardy if there are issues with it and the rest of the emissions system. The entire system is worth well over $5000 new from Dodge BUT...most Cummins owners are now doing Emission Deletes once there warrantee is over.

Dellens Red ram already had what I assume was a fairly large programmer/tuner as he had a full set of aftermarket gauges and pod on the drivers pillar of the truck (you can clearly see the gauge pod and tuner on the right drivers pillar.

As far as the price of the motor and stealing just the truck for the engine...they are quite common in those years and I know of a mechanic just outside of Kitchener that deals with nothing but Dodge Ram’s and has at all times 3-5 engines sitting on the racks and they are priced from $2500-$5000. Steeling a truck like they are accused of just for the motor would be insane! The only thing that would make it worth them to steal a whole truck would be if they were going to do an Engine/Power Train conversion into a totally different truck...For instance, 8 years ago I built a GMC 1ton and converted its gas engine/power train to a Cummins/dodge drive train and although I sourced all the parts separately it would have been a whole lot easier to do the conversion with a whole “donor” truck as I also needed most of the wiring and little things that were almost all but impossible to find on there own.

Also about the use of Jet Fuel...while it does lack the lubricity that normal diesel fuel has, it would be very easy to add to add a litre or two of two-stroke oil to every tank which would increase the lubricity and would not hurt the motor one bit. In fact, even in my own personal 2001 Dodge Cummins (which was built for the use of the diesel fuel prior to 2007 (there is that 2007 year again!!!) ULSD (Ultra-Low Sulphur Diesel) needed an increase in lubricant so I would add one litre of two-stroke oil at every fill-up and by doing this I never hurt the fuel system running the new diesel fuel. On my 2012 Cummins...its motor is almost identical to the 2007.5 motors and it was built for the ULSD fuel.

I just really can’t see steeling the truck and using its parts for there own personal truck. IMO, I still believe that, like I stated in my post yesterday...DM and the others were getting paid big bucks to steel the very desirable 1997 5.9L Cummins powered Dodge Ram. I also got thinking after I wrote my previous post that they could have also have wanted to steel the truck, take it back to the hanger at the Airport in Kitchener and fly it out of the province. DM could have easily had many connections to theft rings and with his possible knowledge he would have been the perfect guy to look for the particular truck that was on the grocery list! He also could have easily met people on his trips to Mexico at the races that could have been involved or connected him with people in these theft rings. Very easy money if you are that type of person and I believe that TB unfortunately fought back and someone pulled a knife or a hand gun.
Click to expand...

I am really glad that you are on this board!

I posted the cat converter theft link to illustrate how a truck can be stolen for one part.

You know enough to add the two-stroke oil during your diesel fill ups, but DM may not be as mechanically knowledgeable to put in lube additive, especially with jet fuel, if that is what he was using. Maybe he found out the hard way.

BBM -- I posted on another thread the possibility that a customization project may have been intended for the truck. Thanks for bringing this up.

Also, your last paragraph expands on another possibility some of us have been considering: that the truck was intended for someone else, not necessarily DM.

It's still showing that the truck is the motive, or at least, the main part of it.
 
From the Hamilton Spec:

THE DODGE RAM 3500

Police say the truck was the target of theft — not Bosma. What we still don't know is what was so special about that type of truck?

Two nights in a row. Two trucks of the same brand and make were test driven — one red, one black, one in Etobicoke and one in Ancaster, by the same two suspects, police say. One of those test drives resulted in the death of Timothy Bosma.

Were Bosma's killers after the catalytic converter or other parts? Was it just a joy ride gone wrong? Or was it the plan all along? These are questions we are still asking. But also: why this truck?
Click to expand...

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3237885-the-tim-bosma-case-in-focus/
 
meadsipper said:
So, it is possible that the 5.9 Cummins was what they were looking for in a Dodge Ram, based on the amount of "test drives" that we know about. DM probably had a Cummins in his red Ram, according to RyeGuy's observations. If this is the case, and we know that the truck was valued over its owner because it was secreted away inside the accused's trailer while the owner suffered death and the indignity of being burnt, then it appears that the truck was the motive for all of this.

Was it matter of spare parts or engine swapping? Also, who's expert enough to illuminate everyone on how jet fuel can be used in a diesel engine? If DM had been using jet fuel in his red Ram, without the precaution of adding lube due to the drier fuel, did he need another engine?
Click to expand...

DM's red ram has a hemi... By the decals in the photo's. I think it was going to be used in his jeep...that whole jeep mod club, has a big "jeep to diesel" conversion following. I personally dont think it was going to be swapped in the red ram.
 
The red dodge does have a diesel in it. It also looks like it was highly modified with a tuner. You can see the tuner and gauge pod on the drivers side front pillar. As far as swapping TB engin into the jeep....nearly impossible because of the size (the 5.9 cummins was built and designed for agricultural, industrial and smaller highway trucks). The Cummins that is swapped into the jeeps is the 5.9L's little brother....the 3.9L known as the 4BT. The 5.9L is known as the 6BT.
 
RyeGuy#1 said:
The red dodge does have a diesel in it. It also looks like it was highly modified with a tuner. You can see the tuner and gauge pod on the drivers side front pillar. As far as swapping TB engin into the jeep....nearly impossible because of the size (the 5.9 cummins was built and designed for agricultural, industrial and smaller highway trucks). The Cummins that is swapped into the jeeps is the 5.9L's little brother....the 3.9L known as the 4BT. The 5.9L is known as the 6BT.
Click to expand...

The badge adjacent to the light, does not appear to have a cummins symbol.... Looks more like hemi badge.... Which was obvious in other photos of truck ive seen. Also, 5.9 in jeeps have been done with heavy reinforcement.... And judging by front end shots of front end of jeep...they know how too
 
Way back on the first page of the first thread (post 22), there was a posting from the Help Find Tim facebook page:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9392753&postcount=22"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Canada -Timothy Bosma, 32, Hamilton Ontario, 6 May 2013 - #1[/ame]

This refers to an attempted automobile theft from a person who owns '"the same truck"(and chased after the 2 men in said Dodge Ram) in the Guelph area during the weekend leading up to TB's disappearance. I haven't been able to find any information about this incident (which apparently resulted in a car wreck) thus far, but I'm hoping some of our more experienced, tech savvy sleuths here may have better luck. I'd expect there to be some kind of info available for an accident in the Guelph area sometime between May 3 - 5. TIA
 
Factoria said:
Way back on the first page of the first thread (post 22), there was a posting from the Help Find Tim facebook page:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Canada -Timothy Bosma, 32, Hamilton Ontario, 6 May 2013 - #1

This refers to an attempted automobile theft from a person who owns '"the same truck"(and chased after the 2 men in said Dodge Ram) in the Guelph area during the weekend leading up to TB's disappearance. I haven't been able to find any information about this incident (which apparently resulted in a car wreck) thus far, but I'm hoping some of our more experienced, tech savvy sleuths here may have better luck. I'd expect there to be some kind of info available for an accident in the Guelph area sometime between May 3 - 5. TIA
Click to expand...

I do recall something of this nature, although do not know if was fact.
 
Two birds with one stone? Pre-medidated murder of Tim and they get a shiny truck for parts our of the deal?
 
Xler8 said:
Two birds with one stone? Pre-medidated murder of Tim and they get a shiny truck for parts our of the deal?
Click to expand...

I think this is sort of it, but I don't think it being a certain person mattered to them.

I think they wanted to kill, for a truck. Tim just got hugely unlucky.
 
Suppose DM was interested in the truck and to DM, knowingly or not, SM was not interested in truck just a kill? They both were going to get satisfaction, independent of or with the knowledge of the other?
 
Factoria said:
Way back on the first page of the first thread (post 22), there was a posting from the Help Find Tim facebook page:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Canada -Timothy Bosma, 32, Hamilton Ontario, 6 May 2013 - #1

This refers to an attempted automobile theft from a person who owns '"the same truck"(and chased after the 2 men in said Dodge Ram) in the Guelph area during the weekend leading up to TB's disappearance. I haven't been able to find any information about this incident (which apparently resulted in a car wreck) thus far, but I'm hoping some of our more experienced, tech savvy sleuths here may have better luck. I'd expect there to be some kind of info available for an accident in the Guelph area sometime between May 3 - 5. TIA
Click to expand...

:blushing:

after I had posted on the other thread I saw your post which reflects what another poster was thinking. Here's what I had posted:

Originally Posted by matou View Post
Where was DM's red truck during all of this? I think LE has it. Was the other guy's truck red? The one that DM had test-driven? Was DMs red truck used in a crime and he needed another one to replace it? Did LE find a bunch of red paint in the hangar? IDK

BBM
I read and pondered what you wrote and wow it makes sense! Why else would he need that particular truck in such a hurry and not want a trace of the sale? (by theft) Perhaps he didn't want it noted that he purchased a 'replacement' vehicle just because of a hit and run in his red truck and/or it being spotted in another crime. Maybe he offered $ to TB just to use his vehicle for short time only and TB balked? He wanted the truck but did not it registered in his name .....

What if he wanted to use TB's truck to just get a trailer with either the jeep inside or his red truck inside (haven't figured that part out yet) just over the border and then switcheroo.

IF he was planning on the Baja race (this month?) he wanted to get out of town pulling the trailer with the Baja vehicle inside?

I'm glad that you raised this -- it is possible


Re original information appears to be about Chrysler dealership experiencing attempted theft

Post 22 Thread #1 Canadiangirl:
Someone has posted on the facebook page the following:
Katherine Akins
Shared and my husband works for crystler dealership in guelph and will keep an eye out.
May I suggest that someone connected to this have the hamilton police connect with the guelph police as well. As a coworker of my husband has the same truck and this weekend 2 men attempted to break into his other vehicles/house. He heard them and got into his truck and gave chase, they got away but abandoned the wrecked car they were driving which was stolen. This may not be connected at all, however given the dodge ram connnection and 2 men i wanted to share.

Edit to add, the press conference stated that the 2 perps were targeting the truck, not Bosma himself.
 
Does anyone know if Tim bought this truck second hand? If so, when?
 
newone said:
:blushing:

after I had posted on the other thread I saw your post which reflects what another poster was thinking. Here's what I had posted:

Originally Posted by matou View Post
Where was DM's red truck during all of this? I think LE has it. Was the other guy's truck red? The one that DM had test-driven? Was DMs red truck used in a crime and he needed another one to replace it? Did LE find a bunch of red paint in the hangar? IDK

BBM
I read and pondered what you wrote and wow it makes sense! Why else would he need that particular truck in such a hurry and not want a trace of the sale? (by theft) Perhaps he didn't want it noted that he purchased a 'replacement' vehicle just because of a hit and run in his red truck and/or it being spotted in another crime. Maybe he offered $ to TB just to use his vehicle for short time only and TB balked? He wanted the truck but did not it registered in his name .....

What if he wanted to use TB's truck to just get a trailer with either the jeep inside or his red truck inside (haven't figured that part out yet) just over the border and then switcheroo.

IF he was planning on the Baja race (this month?) he wanted to get out of town pulling the trailer with the Baja vehicle inside?

I'm glad that you raised this -- it is possible


Re original information appears to be about Chrysler dealership experiencing attempted theft
Click to expand...

I do seem to recall reading something else about vehicle thefts happening at area dealerships, but I don't think this particular incident (if it even really occurred as described) is one and the same... I get the impression from the original facebook post that the poster's husband happens to work at a Chrysler dealership alongside another man who owns a Dodge Ram pickup. That man heard 2 men attempting to break into his home and/or other vehicle(s), and chased after them in his own Dodge Ram. The vehicle that the 2 men took off in was stolen, and they escaped capture after wrecking the car during the chase. My thought is that perhaps they first attempted to steal the Ram, but couldn't because that model requires the technology in the key fob ~ couldn't hotwire it. That could possibly explain a progression to a more complex scheme of planning a test drive to obtain the key fob needed to steal the truck they were after, solidifying the theory that the truck was indeed the target. All of this is speculation and MOO, of course. Just trying to find out if there is any verifiable information available with respect to this incident.
 
newone said:
:blushing:

after I had posted on the other thread I saw your post which reflects what another poster was thinking. Here's what I had posted:

Originally Posted by matou View Post
Where was DM's red truck during all of this? I think LE has it. Was the other guy's truck red? The one that DM had test-driven? Was DMs red truck used in a crime and he needed another one to replace it? Did LE find a bunch of red paint in the hangar? IDK

BBM
I read and pondered what you wrote and wow it makes sense! Why else would he need that particular truck in such a hurry and not want a trace of the sale? (by theft) Perhaps he didn't want it noted that he purchased a 'replacement' vehicle just because of a hit and run in his red truck and/or it being spotted in another crime. Maybe he offered $ to TB just to use his vehicle for short time only and TB balked? He wanted the truck but did not it registered in his name .....

What if he wanted to use TB's truck to just get a trailer with either the jeep inside or his red truck inside (haven't figured that part out yet) just over the border and then switcheroo.

IF he was planning on the Baja race (this month?) he wanted to get out of town pulling the trailer with the Baja vehicle inside?

I'm glad that you raised this -- it is possible


Re original information appears to be about Chrysler dealership experiencing attempted theft

Post 22 Thread #1 Canadiangirl:
Someone has posted on the facebook page the following:
Katherine Akins
Shared and my husband works for crystler dealership in guelph and will keep an eye out.
May I suggest that someone connected to this have the hamilton police connect with the guelph police as well. As a coworker of my husband has the same truck and this weekend 2 men attempted to break into his other vehicles/house. He heard them and got into his truck and gave chase, they got away but abandoned the wrecked car they were driving which was stolen. This may not be connected at all, however given the dodge ram connnection and 2 men i wanted to share.

Edit to add, the press conference stated that the 2 perps were targeting the truck, not Bosma himself.
Click to expand...
I live in guelph I remember seeing that post checked out it out I found no evidence to say this infant occurred nothing even on police websites
 
Its pretty obvious that they wanted this truck. Police have pretty much confirmed it.
 
Ok I have a technical question.

When TB's truck was found a "police source" said "seats" were missing (and this has not been officially confirmed, but let's assume for a moment it's true.)

My question is, what kind of tools would one need to get those seats out of the truck? Is this something that they could have done at the farm without tools? Or would they have had to take the truck to the hangar where all their equipment is? I doubt DM would have kept a lot of tools at an unsecured, roadside barn.

LE has not confirmed seats are missing but it could be they have FOUND the seats - either burnt on the farm, or intact somewhere in the hangar, if this task was done there.

Do you think they had the opportunity to destroy the seats?
 
SnooperDuper said:
My question is, what kind of tools would one need to get those seats out of the truck? Is this something that they could have done at the farm without tools? Or would they have had to take the truck to the hangar where all their equipment is? I doubt DM would have kept a lot of tools at an unsecured, roadside barn.
?
Click to expand...

I have pick up truck, its not a Dodge but it is full size similar to the Dodge style.

It is super easy to remove my seats, four bolts and you are done. Simple two minute job.
 
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