Motive

[Searchfortruth]

But, the 24/7 live-in sitters had HAD it. CA was demanding KC get a job and start assuming some responsibility. She wanted KC out of the house, working, and acting like an adult. They also ripped her a new one for robbing her granddad.

KC, in spite, took Caylee and went off to stay with friends. No money, except what she stole. NO sitter! All those men and all those parties and NO sitter.

Caylee got in the way. KC had to give up a few parties, and the trip to PR with friends, because she had a kid on her hands,

And, KC DID want to marry Tony, as evidenced by her practicing her "married name" on a paper that the FBI found. She didn't LOVE Tony. She just wanted to marry him. He said, "No female children."

Also, Caylee was beginning to learn to talk, and so could report back on what KC was doing.

No surprise about no tears from KC. Sociopaths don't bond.

Agree, with the latest interviews from CA's co-workers and supervisor we know that CA was tired of shouldering the responsibility of caring for Caylee alone. Of course, CA didn't want to let authorities in on this, she knew had she been honest about events she would have handed them their motive for the murder. I believe that KC used CA for babysitting purposes and when that option was gone she killed her daughter.

 

[marlap]

This explanation (from http://marileestrong.blogspot.com/) as to why SP & sociopaths like him commit 'eraser' killings seems very fitting in KC's case (bold mine):

"The motive, the "why' question puzzled nearly all of those who followed the case in the media -- a question talked about endlessly "off-camera" among those of us who covered the criminal trial -- was why someone like Scott would choose to murder his wife and unborn child rather than, simplify, get a divorce.

The real answer to this question helped lead me to a very different understanding of this type of killer because the typical motivations for murder -- financial gain, to be with another woman, jealousy, "snapping" -- just don't fit.

Scott himself made the comment in one of the many phone conversations secretly recorded by Amber Frey, in which he explained with his characteristic mix of evasiveness and revelation that his plan had been to "simplify" his life. What Scott says on these tapes may make little sense to the unschooled listener. But these strange conversations take on great meaning when one understands the inherently twisted logic of the psychopath, for whom emotionally-laden words are often mismatched and incorrectly processed because their emotions are only skin-deep. Nothing connects to any genuine feeling inside.

By analyzing all available records on hundreds cases, I have come to see that Scott Peterson and other eraser killers do not kill for the reasons normally ascribed to spousal murderers. They eliminate the women, and sometimes children, in their lives because they no longer serve any useful purpose to them. They view those they once claimed to love as inconveniences, impediments to the kind of life they covet and fantasize for themselves. They see them, quite literally, as dead weight. In the mind of this type of murderer, it is quicker, easier, and more satisfying for him to simplify one's life by murder than to get a divorce."

or, in KC's case, hand over legal custody of Caylee to the GPs...no paperwork to deal with, no schedule changes to accomodate court hearings or meeting with attorneys. No having to explain all of life's complications to 'friends'.

In her mind it was easier to simply say 'someone took her....and if I can't find her no one can...oh, welll !'. It's the equivalent of the 'disappeared' wife who was last seen leaving for her morning jog or walk.

(JMO)

TexasMist, that is fascinating and it sure does fit!

 

[Ariane]

Excuse me if this is a newbie question, my memory isn't very good at times, and maybe I've seen evidence of this, but have since forgotten.

If this were to be true, in the statements made by at least one of Casey's friends, would they have not said something to the effect, that they had a feeling Casey was lying to them because Caylee's statements didn't seem to coincide (sp) with Casey's?

From what I remember, all her freinds didn't start looking at her that way until all this started happening...but maybe I'm wrong in this.

For her to do something of this nature, I would assume Caylee would have to exibit signs of this for her to think of it. But then, no one really knows exactly what the family and her were arguing about, this could have happened "in family."

Was just wondering if I had missed something is all. Hope I didn't offend.

I don't recall that someone reported Caylee contradicting Casey ...EXCEPT by omission. George told LE how he would sometimes try to talk to Caylee about "Zanny" and about "Zack" who was supposedly Jeff's son who Zanny also babysat, and Caylee showed no sign of recognition and didn't respond and talk about them as she did when other (real) friends were mentioned. Casey may have witnessed these attempts and jumped in to avert more questions, but she would have realized it was just a matter of time before Caylee not only looked puzzled but was able to say "I don't know anybody called Zanny. I wasnt at Zanny's house today, we were (fill in the blank whatever they were really doing)." Which could have at the least busted Casey's pretence of having a job, and at the worst (from Casey's standpoint) might have revealed some kind of illegal activity.

 

[Jolynna]

Thanks for the welcomes!

My son gets the blank look too if I talk about something that he is not familiar with. I'd say your quote above is telling. Caylee gave a blank look because there is no Zanny. Who is Zach and Annabelle?

Zach is supposed to be JH's son. Only JH doesn't have children.

Casey told her family and others that nanny watched Casey, Zach and Annabelle.

 

[Jolynna]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but re-reading Casey's IM's with ID:

KC( 3.11pm) I'm pretty hung up on tony, and realistically, if he moves back to new york next year, my relationship will end.sucks to know that inevitably, unless I were to drop everything, I'm going to lose someone close to me.
ID Then why dig a deeper hole? I couldnt do that to myself
KC (3.12pm) Thats why I'm torn right now.
ID If he's worth it, he would stay.
KC If he gets offered the jobs he's supposed to, I couldnt keep him here
ID Oh
KC Not when he's worked so hard to get where he's going
ID If you love him, you wouldnt move up?
KC (3.13pm) A lot can happen in the next year. He'll be graduating from full sail this time next year.
ID Whats his job?
KC After such a short time of dating, I feel stronger for him, than I have ever felt for anyone else. He's doing music business at full sail. He's already been offerred a couple of jobs back in new york.
ID Wow. Imagine a year from now then
KC (3.14pm) Exactly. I dont want to set myself up for heartbreak. But at the same time, I dont want to throw something away that could be so great
ID I dont know, if you know its a dead end.... Havent talked to him about it with him?
KC (3.15pm) Its not a guaranteed dead end, but the likelyhood of us staying together, just seems so dim..We talk about it all the time. He even told me, he would ask me to leave with him, in a heartbeat.
KC (3.16pm) As nice as it is to hear, I have no desire to live up north. Love to visit new york, but that just doesnt seem my style
ID I understand

KC ( 3:16pm) I never thought I would even consider moving for someone, unless it was someone I was already married to, or in the process of marrying, you know? Thats a big commitment. Its a huge deal

--------------------------------------------------------

At this point Caylee was already gone, as I think this convo took place on July 20. I think this is just a front, and that she did intend to follow Tony up there. In an IM with ID just a few days earlier, she was talking about how much she loved and trusted her "kid's" nanny, whom she had known for six years. Obviously she was setting that up. I think that by "coming down" on New York, and saying she was doubting moving there, she was prematurely covering her tracks, by acting flippant about it.

It seems Casey was already at least considering, or entertaining the thought of moving to New York to be with Tony. Maybe this was motive for killing Caylee? She knew she couldn't drag Caylee along to New York? I could definitely see her following Tony to New York, and wanting to be a part of his lifestyle, especially if she thought we would gain notoriety as a dj, or musician.

It's a stretch to consider this, but also- could that be part of the reasoning for her mentioning "Zanny's" connection to New York? So if she moved there later it could be under the premise of looking for Caylee?

In those IMs Casey states that New York "isn't her style" but I personally call shenanigans on that, as all she seemed to do was party, socialize, and stay on the go. She seemed to always be "on the go".

ETA: Snipped from that same conversation..

" KC (3:22pm ) Exactly. I could deal with the heartbreak. I couldnt deal with regret. Love is too complicated."

Just a thought

I agree with your post.I think Tony may have been the part of Casey's motive that pushed her into the act. Fights with Cindy probably weren't new.

Casey didn't say she wouldn't go to NY. She said she would need to be married to do it. That is like in the old days when women would wait until after marriage to have sex so they could dangle the sex carrot.

Casey was dangling the enticement of moving to NY. She got rid of the girl child. Then she cooked, organized shot girls, promoted Fusian, cleaned and laundered to further entice Tony with her wifely skills.

Despite Casey's flirting with Iasen (for ego building & backup) she tries hard to get Iasen to reinforce her hopes for some kind of future with Tony. Iasen doesn't, so Casey herself gives reasons why *love* is worth anything.

IMO

 

[concentric]

I'm with all of you, especially the first person who said that squelching Caylee's voice--her verbal development (that would include Caylee's 2-3 yr. old developmental outbursts, etc.--as mentioned by some) was a motive, so that she would not "report" on KC and KC could not handle it at all (I will not say "mother," because I can't call her that.):

When my son was 3 yrs. old, he walked into the kitchen and said: "Mom, I've come to the realization about something." As you can imagine, I almost fell over. I thought maybe he had been parroting something I said, so I decided to find out if he really knew the meaning of the word, in its context. I asked him: "Can you tell me what realization means?" So he answers: "It means you've discovered something new, that may, or may not be true." I almost fainted at that point. This is something I wrote down, so I would never forget it.

Caylee's verbalization IS an important component; but, I believe it is included in a: COMPLEX OF RESENTMENTS KC had building up inside of her toward Caylee--in other words, all of the above people have said in this thread.

At this point, I DO NOT KNOW if she used the duct tape, chloroform, etc. to shut Caylee up and knock her out for a very long time, or if with all of this resentment building up, she acted, as we have discussed before, in that moment of rage and deliberately murdered Caylee, or if it is a combination of both.

I still wonder if the defense is saying she is innocent because of some kind of psych. disorder that they hope to prove. I do remember a show on Dr. Phil about: Anger or Rage disorder??? Ok, here it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermittent_explosive_disorder

 

[songline]

I still can't figure out a motive. It wasn't the partying cause she had live-in sitters. ok, it wasn't 24/7 but it was way more than I had at her age with a baby that age which was zero. :biglaugh:

It wasn't frequent abuse that went too far, there was no indication of that - neglect, possibly, but not physical abuse.

It wasn't TonE. That was too new, didn't actually appear to be heading that way with him goin' back to NY and all and it wasn't like Smith where the guy wrote a letter saying "if it werent for the kids" sort of a thing. I think TonE just was having a flingy-thingy and so was KC. He wasn't hostile to children is all I am saying.If it had gotten to the point where TonE was like...."I cant handle kids, sorry..." then maybe.

I dont think it was Cindy. "gee, my mom is mad cause I stole a bunch of money again. I'll teach her! c'mere, caylee...." To me that makes no sense whatsoever but then, murdering one's child is quite senseless so what do I know.

Originally I assumed it was a rage attack and maybe it was. But I can only speak for myself that no matter how mad I was, I wouldn't be that mad to, say, hold a pillow over my kid's face and not realise what was going to happen before s/he stopped struggling. And since there was no trauma to the skull, say, then she didnt hit her or push her to cause a fall with a head injury although that couldnt be ruled out and sometimes there is no bone trauma. or, maybe hit her hard enough in the stomach to cause internal bleeding (I feel sick and evil even typing this...)...but that falls under accident and she was not ever acting like someone who lost her baby in an accident, no grief, no nightmares, no tears, no depression.

And face it, KC woulda been all over the attention from having an accidentally dead baby. Sure, Cindy wouldn't forgive her, but where is any indication KC cares about Cindy? Truthfully? What is Cindy's pain compared to freedom and a free ride from her parents even longer since she is grieving?

Plus, that doesn't explain duct tape....

I still can't imagine who plans a murder for 4 in the afternoon. If, in fact, it was about 4 in the afternoon. I still wonder myself if the night of 6/15 was it. But then, she was on the phone with TonE all night. I mean, really, are you like.."brb, gotta do something real quick", kill your kid, then text or call right back??? but maaaaayyybe caylee wouldn't sleep and KC hadn't been sleeping and she just...couldn't....take it...any more. I guess then getting right back to the phone is no weirder than killing your kid at 4 pm and then headin' to blockbuster at 630 like nothing happened..

That is the worst bit. No matter how cold KC was, how could there be no reaction whatsoever afterwards? no stress, no tears, no nothing?

I can't figure out a single motive that makes any sense at all to me.

I had been thinking about this topic for a while and did not post my thoughts yet.
I was happy to find this thread. I agree with this line of thinking.

When I heard about the tape over Caylee's mouth it was like a subliminal message to me.
Like Casey saying "You will no longer be able to tell about me". Whether Caylees language was limited or unclear PARENTS and GRANDPARENTS and CARE TAKERS do understand a child's communications.
My granddaughter is 3 and I do not understand all her words clearly, but her Mom and Dad and little Brother translate for me.
So how clearly Caylee can speak is not an issue at all. She can see and report, the fact that she can speak and also imitate can scare the chit out of Casey, and blow her lies.

It was also said early on that Casey had some involvement with a brothel; who knows what Caylee told Cindy?
How about something like "Momma dancing no cloths on" Who knows what she can say that is unclear to us but clear to Cindy.
What about immitation, what if she tried to do a sexy dance and Cindy asked her where did you learn to do that? I think Caylee saw something.

One poster did suspect that she may tell about sleeping in the car while Mom is out partying. That too would not sit well with Casey, she'd have to explain that.
I think Casey was afraid of what Caylee already had said and would say.
I think GA had already found picturs of Casey in compromising situations and was on to her.

So while you may think that Casey would have love the media attention if she called that it was an accident. I believe that she would not have wanted certain things to be found out and was afraid her family would find out.
Even her friends had a fictitious persona of her.
HER COVER WAS ABOUT TO BE BLOW EN, and maybe it already was blown on that car ride with Grandma.

 

[Jolynna]

This explanation (from http://marileestrong.blogspot.com/) as to why SP & sociopaths like him commit 'eraser' killings seems very fitting in KC's case (bold mine):

"The motive, the "why' question puzzled nearly all of those who followed the case in the media -- a question talked about endlessly "off-camera" among those of us who covered the criminal trial -- was why someone like Scott would choose to murder his wife and unborn child rather than, simplify, get a divorce.

The real answer to this question helped lead me to a very different understanding of this type of killer because the typical motivations for murder -- financial gain, to be with another woman, jealousy, "snapping" -- just don't fit.

Scott himself made the comment in one of the many phone conversations secretly recorded by Amber Frey, in which he explained with his characteristic mix of evasiveness and revelation that his plan had been to "simplify" his life. What Scott says on these tapes may make little sense to the unschooled listener. But these strange conversations take on great meaning when one understands the inherently twisted logic of the psychopath, for whom emotionally-laden words are often mismatched and incorrectly processed because their emotions are only skin-deep. Nothing connects to any genuine feeling inside.

By analyzing all available records on hundreds cases, I have come to see that Scott Peterson and other eraser killers do not kill for the reasons normally ascribed to spousal murderers. They eliminate the women, and sometimes children, in their lives because they no longer serve any useful purpose to them. They view those they once claimed to love as inconveniences, impediments to the kind of life they covet and fantasize for themselves. They see them, quite literally, as dead weight. In the mind of this type of murderer, it is quicker, easier, and more satisfying for him to simplify one's life by murder than to get a divorce."

or, in KC's case, hand over legal custody of Caylee to the GPs...no paperwork to deal with, no schedule changes to accomodate court hearings or meeting with attorneys. No having to explain all of life's complications to 'friends'.

In her mind it was easier to simply say 'someone took her....and if I can't find her no one can...oh, welll !'. It's the equivalent of the 'disappeared' wife who was last seen leaving for her morning jog or walk.

(JMO)

I LOVE Marilee Strong's Erased. I think Casey killed Caylee for the same reasons SP killed Laci, too. Scott loved his Laci. Casey loved Caylee. But, their feelings changed.

According to Nancy Grace, when Casey was out on bond she played Sevendust's "The Past" over and over again. (According to Casey's texts and myspace messages , she was a Sevendust, Daughtry fan.) Which would be ironic, if true, because of the recurring line:

I'm up
I'm down
like a roller-coaster racing
through my life
I've erased the past again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCe9GH8c0wQ​

 

[concentric]

What about immitation, what if she tried to do a sexy dance and Cindy asked her where did you learn to do that? I think Caylee saw something.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, I just don't have the time to retrieve all the posts these savvy websleuths made:

but someone here mentioned the pictures of how KC dressed Caylee up in partaay outfits that were not: little girl Disney princess. Then we have the knowledge that KC deleted many photos of herself and Caylee.

And one writer on a radio program had perhaps an even more frightening opinion of where Caylee might have been while drugged.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

I haven't given much thought to her possible motive. Casey often seems too scatter-brained for me to assemble any kind of motive.

I will say this: I have found raising my almost three year old girl much harder than my son. It also occurred to me in watching other cases (Baby Grace being one) that something indescribable happens in the tender phase from ages two to three in where it seems to be the most common age group for harm by a parent. My little girl can be more difficult than I could have ever imagined. I can see how someone without anger-management skills or self control would do harm. This is by no means an excuse for ever hurting a child. I think it's evidence of lack of parenting skills and self control.

Now whether or not Casey allegedly planned this or it was a rage killing, I'll never know. I do know that the age Caylee was at was a difficult one. And part of me believes Casey just didn't have the skills to deal with her anger/rage. It's not all quite that simple though seeing as how there is evidence to internet searches which do point to something more sinister. Perhaps it was a combination of it all? I really don't know.

 

[concentric]

I can see how someone without anger-management skills or self control would do harm. This is by no means an excuse for ever hurting a child. I think it's evidence of lack of parenting skills and self control.

Now whether or not Casey allegedly planned this or it was a rage killing, I'll never know. I do know that the age Caylee was at was a difficult one. And part of me believes Casey just didn't have the skills to deal with her anger/rage. It's not all quite that simple though seeing as how there is evidence to internet searches which do point to something more sinister. Perhaps it was a combination of it all? I really don't know.

Here's a question: Who was acting as the parent to Caylee? This case just screams to me: KC not wanting to parent Caylee and Cindy wanting to parent Caylee but then later forcing the parenting on a girl who was adamantly set against it and didn't want to cope with it.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

Here's a question: Who was acting as the parent to Caylee?

Having not been in their home I couldn't say who was the acting parental figure.

 

[concentric]

Having not been in their home I couldn't say who was the acting parental figure.

It just seems to me that Cindy was the primary caregiver of Caylee. This evidenced by photos of Cindy spending time with Caylee, clothing, shelter, room decor, toys, visits to great-grandparents, etc. Caylee also referenced "please don't take nan's sunshine away from me."

I think KC willingly gave Caylee's care over to Cindy, but when Cindy wouldn't take on full childcare and comply with KC's swinging single lifestyle, all h*ll broke lose.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

Here's a question: Who was acting as the parent to Caylee? This case just screams to me: KC not wanting to parent Caylee and Cindy wanting to parent Caylee but then later forcing the parenting on a girl who was adamantly set against it and didn't want to cope with it.

This is possible but I also see her not being able to cope with the demands of an almost three year old. While not all children are the same, transition from two to three is a very difficult phase.

If your theory is correct that a majority of Caylee's raising was done by Cindy and George then it stands to reason even more that Casey didn't have the skills to parent Caylee properly. While some parenting is instinct, other areas you learn as you go. It truly is one of the hardest jobs in the galaxy.

I am by no means a Casey supporter. Just something I had noticed whilst in the midst of raising my own almost three year old. It's tough work and they're tough cookies.

 

[concentric]

This is possible but I also see her not being able to cope with the demands of an almost three year old. While not all children are the same, transition from two to three is a very difficult phase.

If your theory is correct that a majority of Caylee's raising was done by Cindy and George then it stands to reason even more that Casey didn't have the skills to parent Caylee properly. While some parenting is instinct, other areas you learn as you go. It truly is one of the hardest jobs in the galaxy.

I am by no means a Casey supporter. Just something I had noticed whilst in the midst of raising my own almost three year old. It's tough work and they're tough cookies.

I'm wholeheartedly with you on that. I went through the tough times, and I mean it is tough with me as a parent with no support on very little sleep and a very active, obstinant, curious, adventurous and affection demanding baby? It is not easy. And if Cindy and George were shouldering the major portion of that and then started laying that on KC?

 

[concentric]

But is that KC's defense? That Cindy laid the care of Caylee squarely on KC's shoulders and she didn't know how to cope with it?

No defense in murder. Sorry.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

I'm wholeheartedly with you on that. I went through the tough times, and I mean it is tough with me as a parent with no support on very little sleep and a very active, obstinant, curious, adventurous and affection demanding baby? It is not easy. And if Cindy and George were shouldering the major portion of that and then started laying that on KC?

So agreed! And we Mom's are always questioning every move we make wondering if we are doing the right thing.

I don't know if it was rage, or wanting to party, or goodness, I just can't wrap my head around what might have caused it. Part of me believes it's every one of these things.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

But is that KC's defense? That Cindy laid the care of Caylee squarely on KC's shoulders and she didn't know how to cope with it?

No defense in murder. Sorry.

She's still sticking to the ZFG story so who knows.

 

[concentric]

She could have sought out counseling and help, but no, she chose instead to remove, obliterate or erase (as others have mentioned) the irritant to her party girl lifestyle. There is something supremely messed up in this girl's (can't say woman's) head.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

She could have sought out counseling and help, but no, she chose instead to remove, obliterate or erase (as others have mentioned) the irritant to her party girl lifestyle. There is something supremely messed up in this girl's (can't say woman's) head.

Considering her lack of maturity, I highly doubt counseling ever crossed her mind. If she is truly a sociopath (as some have suggested) she would likely hold any person in the mental health field in disdain as they would attempt to get her to see the wrongs with everything she sees as right.