GUILTY MT - Sherry Arnold, 43, Sidney, 7 Jan 2012 - #3

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If they did have time to go to Texas first (which they didn't), then I would be asking them about the possible murder in Oklahoma.

I do not think that these two had a lot of time to commit other crimes if according to the link Nurse provided, Spell didn't get permission to leave until the 5th.

I wonder if there was other evidence present with the shoe. I have been wondering about this for a while now. Is there any chance that there was any kind of dragging or struggle indications near the shoe. This may have given LE enough to believe she was alive when she was taken. I also wonder about a possible rape scene. I hate to say that, but is it possible that one of these tried to or successfully raped her right there; and then they took her along because she was fighting them off. I have heard little from LE, so I really curious about any evidence found near her shoe. KWIM
 
What about possible evidence in Waters' vehicle? Perhaps they have DNA evidence. I guess we going to have to wait until it comes out. I am sure they know what they are doing.
 
http://www.gjsentinel.com/special_sections/articles/kidnapping_suspect_lied_about
[snipped]
Michael Keith Spell, 22, is scheduled to be arraigned in Garfield County next week on charges related to a 2009 incident in which he allegedly tried to get a Battlement Mesa middle-school student to find fellow middle-school buyers for marijuana. That case languished partly because of two psychological competency evaluations, and now it will take a back seat to Spell’s prosecution in the Montana case.
Click to expand...

BBM
Not only is Spell not on the up and up, he could also have some mental health issues.
 
Psych competency evaluations for mary jane charges? That seems a bit extreme unless I'm missing something.

http://www.gjsentinel.com/special_sections/articles/kidnapping_suspect_lied_about

(snip)
Michael Keith Spell, 22, is scheduled to be arraigned in Garfield County next week on charges related to a 2009 incident in which he allegedly tried to get a Battlement Mesa middle-school student to find fellow middle-school buyers for marijuana. That case languished partly because of two psychological competency evaluations, and now it will take a back seat to Spell’s prosecution in the Montana case.
 
Can you request psych evals during a custody battle?
If you do, can they be used in a criminal case?

Other way around as well... could psych evals done in a criminal case be used in an unrelated custody battle?

Could these psych evals have nothing to do with the criminal case, but have just been the reason it was delayed?

SuziQ said:
Psych competency evaluations for mary jane charges? That seems a bit extreme unless I'm missing something.

http://www.gjsentinel.com/special_sections/articles/kidnapping_suspect_lied_about

(snip)
Michael Keith Spell, 22, is scheduled to be arraigned in Garfield County next week on charges related to a 2009 incident in which he allegedly tried to get a Battlement Mesa middle-school student to find fellow middle-school buyers for marijuana. That case languished partly because of two psychological competency evaluations, and now it will take a back seat to Spell’s prosecution in the Montana case.
Click to expand...
 
TxLady2 said:
So they know the location of where she was kidnapped... probably because of the shoe. I am thinking that because of the tip, there could also be a witness who could have given them a license plate number.
If I am not mistaken, LE made the statement that she was dead fairly quickly, so there had to be a good reason to believe that. I wouldn't think a confession would be enough. Wish we knew what it was. Once they are back in MT, I hope they can help LE find her body. They must have some idea even if they're not familiar with that territory.
Click to expand...

I keep thinking that because the tip was anonymous, it was someone who knows one or both suspects. An eyewitness who saw the license plate wouldn't have any need for anonymity and I think would have come forward within minutes of seeing the crime.

I think it's possible that what LE has is forensic evidence from the vehicle that definitely proves Sherry Arnold was there. It may not be enough to prove death, though; it sounds like they are basing presumption of death in part based on her character (no reason to want to disappear, every reason to believe she was happy at home and professionally).

I just keep going back to the Philip and Sarah Gehring case; their father Manuel Gehring abducted them, killed them and buried them somewhere along I-80. He confessed, he described the burial site (buildings, trees, other identifiers) but couldn't give a more exact location. Investigators narrowed it down to somewhere near I-80 between Grove Pennsylvania and Coralville Iowa.

A mere 700 miles.

And then Manuel Gehring committed suicide while in jail awaiting trial.

Their bodies were found and the place they were found did match the description he gave. They were found by a woman whose heart had been touched by the story and on her days off, she'd methodically go check each place near I-80 that she thought might fit the description. She took her pet Boxer (no training for HRD at all); he was the one who pointed out the location by going to it and starting to dig.

My point being that this guy thought he remembered where he'd buried his children and he had every reason to cooperate but he just wasn't able to remember. He drove for hours after shooting his children, stopped to buy a shovel (Grove), drove for hours, buried them, then drove for more hours before he stopped to clean out his vehicle (Coralville).

While the suspects in Sherry Arnold's death are probably not freaking out in precisely the same way Manuel Gehring was, I speculate they may have been drunk and/or high. If one or both are talking, I have a horrid feeling that their description may match Manuel Gehring's description (drove for hours, etc).
 
Talina said:
I want to know how LE knew where each of these guys were in order to arrest them. That happened awfully quick, IMO. One was in ND and one was in SD. How did they know that?
Also, one was sent from SD to ND where he is now being held fighting extradition. His transfer from SD to ND sure happened quick as well, with no explanation or fanfare. Why ND instead of MT? The articles say there are no charges in ND other than them being held on the MT charges.

This is all very odd to me.
Click to expand...

If I were LE, I'd want to interview the two separately, then "accidentally" let them get together in a wired room to see what they had to say to each other when they thought no one was listening.
 
MsFacetious said:
Can you request psych evals during a custody battle?
If you do, can they be used in a criminal case?

Other way around as well... could psych evals done in a criminal case be used in an unrelated custody battle?

Could these psych evals have nothing to do with the criminal case, but have just been the reason it was delayed?
Click to expand...

http://www.gjsentinel.com/special_sections/articles/kidnapping_suspect_lied_about
[snipped]
Spell faces charges of contributing to the delinquency of a minor, attempted distribution of marijuana and solicitation to commit distribution of marijuana.

Spell was being represented by a public defender, who twice successfully requested psychological evaluations for him. The results are under court seal.
Click to expand...

BBM Sounds like the psych evaluations were related to the drug and CTDOM charges. IDK
 
cocomod said:
If they did have time to go to Texas first (which they didn't), then I would be asking them about the possible murder in Oklahoma.

I do not think that these two had a lot of time to commit other crimes if according to the link Nurse provided, Spell didn't get permission to leave until the 5th.

I wonder if there was other evidence present with the shoe. I have been wondering about this for a while now. Is there any chance that there was any kind of dragging or struggle indications near the shoe. This may have given LE enough to believe she was alive when she was taken. I also wonder about a possible rape scene. I hate to say that, but is it possible that one of these tried to or successfully raped her right there; and then they took her along because she was fighting them off. I have heard little from LE, so I really curious about any evidence found near her shoe. KWIM
Click to expand...

As I recall, even after they found the shoe, they were still saying that one possible scenario was that she had wandered away on her own, probably in a daze. That suggests to me that whatever they found on/near her shoe didn't point to any specific scenario.
 
TxLady2 said:
So they know the location of where she was kidnapped... probably because of the shoe. I am thinking that because of the tip, there could also be a witness who could have given them a license plate number.
If I am not mistaken, LE made the statement that she was dead fairly quickly, so there had to be a good reason to believe that. I wouldn't think a confession would be enough. Wish we knew what it was. Once they are back in MT, I hope they can help LE find her body. They must have some idea even if they're not familiar with that territory.
Click to expand...

I do not recall that LE has made any comment as to when she may have died.

It's very possible that these two have no idea where they buried her. The stretch between Sidney and Williston is a maze of shelter belts, farm trails, township roads, and irragation canals. Once off the highway a person pretty much has to know the area well to avoid becoming lost. Once out of the Missouri-Yellowstone valley the prairie of the surrounding region looks remarkably the same; oil rigs, rolling hills, shelter belts, abandoned farmsteads, and oil wells.
 
daisy.faithfull said:
I found this about Principles of Federal Prosecution:

Its interesting, but this is the first thing that really grabbed my attention:


I get what they are saying and maybe this is why so much about the law is difficult for us lay people to understand at times.

But to me, that just provides lawyers with so many freaking loopholes to exploit.
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It can also insure that a verdict is not thrown out because of an irregularity during the trial or that there is an appeal based on a technicality.
 
Can someone explain to me why they have not said what the suspect vehicle looked like? Witnesses might remember seeing a vehicle matching a discription rather than faces. It just has me kind of confused.
 
MsFacetious said:
Some have wondered if Arnold could have been hit by a vehicle during her pre-dawn run, but that’s not what authorities think.

Under Montana law, the charge of aggravated kidnapping implies the victim was alive when kidnapped, Mike Weber, Richland County attorney in Sidney, told the Herald.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/226961/group/homepage/

I full comprehend aggravated kidnapping meaning the victim must be alive...
I am still not understanding how that also means that a hit and run is not an option?

How many people get hit by vehicles and die instantly? Many survive for quite a while.

She could have easily been hit by a car.
Then abducted to cover that up.
Then killed or just allowed to die from her injuries.

The hit and run and aggravated kidnapping don't have to exclude each other. They could have both happened.

Or maybe I am just missing where law enforcement has specifically said they DON'T believe she was hit first?
Maybe that is what this article was supposed to include? A quote from LE saying they believe she was simply abducted?

If the media is just going by the aggravated kidnapping law... yet assuming she had to be dead after being hit... that's ridiculous.
Click to expand...

I'm still thinking that whatever happened started with them accidentally hitting her. I looked up that case where the woman hit a man and left him on her windshield until he died in her garage. According to the link below her indictment used the word "kidnapping."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/672856/posts
 
When someone hits a pedestrian they will generally break hard before impact if they see the person before hitting. If they hit someone without seeing them beforehand they either don't stop at all or break hard to a stop. Even if they are not terribly concerned about the victim, people tend to want to check their vehicle for damage. If they hit her then picked her up there would probably be break marks on the road giving LE some indication as to how it went down.
 
I really really really don't believe this was an accident.. <modsnip>

But I am not looking forward to the news coming out. I do think this was a case of just some really horrible individuals who set out to do something terrible.
 
Rallihanna said:
I really really really don't believe this was an accident.. <modsnip>

But I am not looking forward to the news coming out. I do think this was a case of just some really horrible individuals who set out to do something terrible.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. It's been many years since I investigated an accident but from the beginning the accident scenario never felt right to me.
 
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