GUILTY MT - Sherry Arnold, 43, Sidney, 7 Jan 2012 - #4

[loreet]

HauntsforHope and all,

I have been thinking exactly that same thing since her body has not been found, week after week. What if she is nowhere near where they said/decribed? It is not as if they are trustworthy witnesses. And no way would any logically thinking person return a murder weapon to a store, even in dire financial straights, except to draw attention to the shovel and the area? Perhaps to divert attention from a more complete search.

I am seriously thinking if they said they went east and north, investigators should look south: there is a gravel pit south of Sidney, there are other area where they would not have to dig. If I were involved in the investigation, I would start looking outside the box -- not forgetting the abandoned homesteads with shelter belts, I would start looking at landfills, unofficial dump spots down coulees, etc. And I would be looking in Montana as well, slightly south of Sidney.

Loreet

 

[GrainneDhu]

HauntsforHope and all,

I have been thinking exactly that same thing since her body has not been found, week after week. What if she is nowhere near where they said/decribed? It is not as if they are trustworthy witnesses. And no way would any logically thinking person return a murder weapon to a store, even in dire financial straights, except to draw attention to the shovel and the area? Perhaps to divert attention from a more complete search.

I am seriously thinking if they said they went east and north, investigators should look south: there is a gravel pit south of Sidney, there are other area where they would not have to dig. If I were involved in the investigation, I would start looking outside the box -- not forgetting the abandoned homesteads with shelter belts, I would start looking at landfills, unofficial dump spots down coulees, etc. And I would be looking in Montana as well, slightly south of Sidney.

Loreet

The sheriff seems to believe that Michael Spell is really trying to help but is impeded by a lack of direction and time sense.

Something just occurred to me, though. What if Lester Waters moved Sherry's body after he and Spell separated?

On the other hand, even if Waters did move her body, he would have left behind evidence. Since no evidence of an interment has been found, they haven't managed to locate her yet.

I do doubt the part of Spell's confession that says the whole was 2-3 feet deep. I know from gardening experience that a six inch hole looks deeper the harder it was to dig. At night, and piling the sod/dirt next to the hole, it wouldn't surprise me if the hole were less than six inches.

I think two guys who have been smoking crack for four days probably did not have the mental acuity to come up with or successfully carry out a plan to divert distraction by buying and returning a shovel. I think they returned it because they were hungry and not capable of thinking straight.

 

[Eoanthropus Dawsoni]

The original search area identified by LE included a large area of ND and MT. Since then LE has not retracted that. My thoughts are that if LE really believed that Spell was reliable we would have heard something different by now.

Spell might very well be trying to help but if he wasn't lucent then, time is probably not going to make his memory much better. I do doubt his hole story. Unless they happened to stumble upon some place with unfrozen soil I believe the best they could have done would have been to shovel a small amount over her.

However it is possible that he thinks he dug a hole. Our memories are no where near as reliable as we would like to believe, even under the best of conditions. Add a lot of stress, fatigue, and some drugs; and his memory of the events might be quite faulty.

 

[GrainneDhu]

The original search area identified by LE included a large area of ND and MT. Since then LE has not retracted that. My thoughts are that if LE really believed that Spell was reliable we would have heard something different by now.

Spell might very well be trying to help but if he wasn't lucent then, time is probably not going to make his memory much better. I do doubt his hole story. Unless they happened to stumble upon some place with unfrozen soil I believe the best they could have done would have been to shovel a small amount over her.

However it is possible that he thinks he dug a hole. Our memories are no where near as reliable as we would like to believe, even under the best of conditions. Add a lot of stress, fatigue, and some drugs; and his memory of the events might be quite faulty.

I think you've got it: Spell thinks he dug a hole but either it didn't happen or it was nowhere near as involved as he thinks it is.

You know, there's some research (not much and not terribly convincing but stick with me here) that seemed to show that a specific memory works best when the possessor is in the same state they were in when it was formed.

Maybe they should have Spell spend four days smoking crack and driving around CO, ND and MT, then see if he manages to come up with anything. I highly doubt it but it would make an interesting footnote to some poor grad student's doctoral thesis.

Gallows humour.

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/231315/group/homepage/

Attorneys for Lester Waters and Michael Spell filed documents on Feb. 28 and Feb. 29 requesting a substitute for District Judge Katherine Irigoin.

Prosecutors have said that Spell told investigators that he pulled Arnold into a car and Waters choked her to death before they buried her on a farmstead near Williston, N.D.

 

[HauntsForHope]

http://maps.google.com/maps/place?q=millers+corner+truck+stop+sidney+montana&hl=en&cid=17136011454667752247

There is a truck stop just down the road from where Sherry was taken that may fit the timeline...if you consider ms a liar, and Sherry was left back in Sidney. Where did I hear that ms like to talk in riddles? Perhaps he is mixing lies with truth or bending truth, or as many have pointed out, delusional truths, based on drug induced memories.

 

[HauntsForHope]

'One place that welcomes truck parking is Millers’ Corner, where truckers fill the parking lot to nearly overflowing.' .....Like clockwork, the semis pull out one by one, gone by 6:30 a.m.'

http://www.sidneyherald.com/articles/2011/05/30/news/doc4de2405f3248c652445979.txt

 

[Elley Mae]

http://rapidcityjournal.com/news/ne...cle_f74a56ac-6932-11e1-bcb7-001871e3ce6c.html

In an order filed Wednesday, District Judge Richard Simonton assumed the cases against Lester Van Waters Jr. and Michael Keith Spell.

 

[neesaki]

ITA, I think I posted this before, but what about their cell phone records. Surely they have them, but nothing mentioned by LE ?

Truth be known, there's no telling where they went during that time frame. I don't believe we can believe anything this MS says because he could have been on drugs and passed out when the vehicle was moving, or he could just be flat out lying.

How much time did they have, then look everywhere that they could have gone within that time frame. How many miles, two, three hundred miles in any direction North, South, East, West. :twocents:

HauntsforHope and all,

I have been thinking exactly that same thing since her body has not been found, week after week. What if she is nowhere near where they said/decribed? It is not as if they are trustworthy witnesses. And no way would any logically thinking person return a murder weapon to a store, even in dire financial straights, except to draw attention to the shovel and the area? Perhaps to divert attention from a more complete search.

I am seriously thinking if they said they went east and north, investigators should look south: there is a gravel pit south of Sidney, there are other area where they would not have to dig. If I were involved in the investigation, I would start looking outside the box -- not forgetting the abandoned homesteads with shelter belts, I would start looking at landfills, unofficial dump spots down coulees, etc. And I would be looking in Montana as well, slightly south of Sidney.

Loreet

 

[neesaki]

I think you've got it: Spell thinks he dug a hole but either it didn't happen or it was nowhere near as involved as he thinks it is.

You know, there's some research (not much and not terribly convincing but stick with me here) that seemed to show that a specific memory works best when the possessor is in the same state they were in when it was formed.

Maybe they should have Spell spend four days smoking crack and driving around CO, ND and MT, then see if he manages to come up with anything. I highly doubt it but it would make an interesting footnote to some poor grad student's doctoral thesis.

Gallows humour.

This is true, if memory serves the theory has been around since the 1960's or 70's and is called state-dependent learning. Btw, I think this is a great idea. If he likes to smoke crack, let him smoke some and take him on a long, long ride. :wink:

 

[HauntsForHope]

The truck stop empties out at 6:30, Sherry was taken at 6:40. They made a u-turn to her side of the street to abduct her, so they would have been coming from that direction... And were still on Holly Rd at the Western Union collecting $100 at 7:25am.

 

[HauntsForHope]

 

[GrainneDhu]

HauntsforHope, that is a great map and I really appreciate the effort you put into it.

Are the untitled pins places you think match the description of where Sherry's body was placed?

If so, then I have a feeling those areas have already been searched. I cannot find the link right now but within a week of her disappearance, the 10 square miles around Sidney had all been searched.

 

[Noway]

Both Wal-Mart and the truck-stop are on the west side of US 2/85 (2nd Ave). Wal-Mart is on the south side of 42nd st and is easy to spot on the satellite image. It's the huge building west of the highway with the large parking lot. The truck-stop is not easy to see. It is on the north side of 42nd, west of the frontage road. In the image you can't see the struck stop building very clearly, but you can see about 6 trucks and many smaller vehicles south of the building, and numerous trucks parked in a large area north of the building. Between the truck-stop building itself and the frontage road is a white square that does show well in the image. That is the canopy over the fuel pumps. Two trucks can be seen on the frontage road immediately in front of the truck stop fueling canopy, parked facing south on the west side of the frontage road. The southernmost truck as a blue cab, the truck right behind it has a white cab. Both have yellow trailers.

In the satellite image there is a building on the east side of the highway, across from the truck-stop. Google has it labeled "Oil Patch Hot Line." That is not quite correct. The Hot Line office would be a few buildings farther north. Google puts Hollen Auto Body in the middle of the intersection. It is actually in the building marked as Hammer's Auto Service.

Thanks this was so helpful!

 

[audie]

"Right now this case is in state court, with the men facing a kidnapping charge. If her body is found across state lines, it will most likely become a federal case and the men would be charged with murder."
http://www.ktvq.com/news/sherry-arnold-suspects-plead-not-guilty/

Does this mean that without the body there won't be any charges against them for her murder? :what:

btw;love the look on the court officers face as he leads lw out..lol

http://www.nobodymurdercases.com/

2 examples:
Bell, Kyle Kenneth-ND
Larson, Dennis Raymond-MT

 

[HauntsForHope]

HauntsforHope, that is a great map and I really appreciate the effort you put into it.

Are the untitled pins places you think match the description of where Sherry's body was placed?

If so, then I have a feeling those areas have already been searched. I cannot find the link right now but within a week of her disappearance, the 10 square miles around Sidney had all been searched.

Thanks, yes. I am curious what areas were searched. anyone have a link? tia

 

[Eoanthropus Dawsoni]

http://www.nobodymurdercases.com/

2 examples:
Bell, Kyle Kenneth-ND
Larson, Dennis Raymond-MT

And Dr. Robert Beirenbaum. I knew him.

http://murderpedia.org/male.B/b/bierenbaum-robert.htm

 

[HauntsForHope]

HauntsforHope and all,

I have been thinking exactly that same thing since her body has not been found, week after week. What if she is nowhere near where they said/decribed? It is not as if they are trustworthy witnesses. And no way would any logically thinking person return a murder weapon to a store, even in dire financial straights, except to draw attention to the shovel and the area? Perhaps to divert attention from a more complete search.

I am seriously thinking if they said they went east and north, investigators should look south: there is a gravel pit south of Sidney, there are other area where they would not have to dig. If I were involved in the investigation, I would start looking outside the box -- not forgetting the abandoned homesteads with shelter belts, I would start looking at landfills, unofficial dump spots down coulees, etc. And I would be looking in Montana as well, slightly south of Sidney.

Loreet

yes, exactly.... MS, who likes to talk in 'riddles', giving what seemed at first to be an honest confession is now looking more like a story he made up to divert from the truth of how they both raped her and disposed of her body long before going to Williston...

 

[BabyB]

Have there been any updates on this story lately?

 

[Jacie Estes]

And Dr. Robert Beirenbaum. I knew him.

http://murderpedia.org/male.B/b/bierenbaum-robert.htm

OT

I read the story at the link and am curious about something concerning the plane. Was the 172 a rental or did he own it? There is a flight school at Essex County Airport and they use 152s, 172s and Warriors. OK, I read further. I wonder if he flew out of Mac-Dan Aviation? I have a brother and friends that fly out of there. Also it is the sirport that JFK, Jr. flew out of when he went down.