My Theory

[claudicici]

It's in there,towards the end exhibit 45

 

[SyraKelly]

CR-I really like your theory.I deleted my last post b/c I did find answers to a few of my questions when I read Paid's Theory.It is very convincing and I do believe the manhole was at least part of the crime scene due to the rebar injuries on Chris and the other injuries on the 2 other boys-shoulder and heads! I had a hard time reading they were dropped head first on a concert manhole.. that was very brutal!
I do believe TH had something to do with these murders,but truly believe he had to have help from someone-I do not believe DJ was his partner-for the 2 reasons you stated above-offering DNA and invalidating TH alibi-If he was guilty he would have did neither in MO!-I do believe DJ's hair got their by transfer by TH.-I also believe TH was a part of this crime b/c he KNEW about the manhole,but never went there to look for them,says he can not remember now where manhole is.So-I am now at the point of asking-who helped TH,someone had to help him bring up the bodies from the manhole as I really believe the shoelaces would not be strong enough to lift dead weigh-I think they would have ripped.-Who this person is-I do not know,but think BJ's guy should have been found and interviewed to see if he knew TH from maybe from the neighborhood or drug dealings.
If only we knew where the MAIN CRIME SCENE was-it would have had to be a bloody scene right? I have read nowhere so far that the manhole was ever searched for evidence-blood,hair,DNA!! Has anyone ever did a Luminol test on the manhole in which the boys use to go to?
I do believe the boys were in the manhole at some point b/c of injuries and 2 people lifted them out and hide them somewhere in the woods and the 2 went their seprate ways and TH had to keep going back and checking where everyone-Pam,her parents was to see if they were close to the bodies,then he found a way to go back to the woods and carry all 3 bodies by himself to the creek and hide the bikes and clothes etc etc.
My next question..if all the families knew about the manhole..why did no one check their First?I am curious about what happened to the backpacks and Amanda's journal which I have not read and can not find!

I would also like to add that this case was full of lies,false confessions,corrupt lawyers,police officers and judge.
Christopher,Michael,and Stevie will never get justice with this group of people! Its really sad that all this
corruption going on and NOT ONE of these people care enough to get justice for 3 little 8 yr boy scouts!!
just sad!!!!!
Please this is JMPO!!

 

[Compassionate Reader]

First, I appreciate all the questions. I absolutely do not and will not take offense at questions about all of this. I will try to give my opinion as to the answers of as many as I remember. (Just a little overwhelmed right now, LOL!) If I miss your question, please ask again. Cappuccino answered some of them, and I agree with what s/he said.

As to why move the bodies, I think Hobbs was afraid that evidence was left on them that could incriminate him. Although there was a small amount of water at the bottom of the manhole (enough to drown in), I don't think it was sufficient to wash away the evidence as I think Hobbs thought submerging them in the drainage ditch would.

Yes, according to the autopsy reports (Branch: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autsb.html ; Byers: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autcb.html ; Moore: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autmm.html ) the bodies weighed 65, 52 and 55 pounds respectively. There are a couple of possibilities as to how Hobbs could have gotten the bodies out. Jacoby (or some other accomplice) is one. The reason I discount Jacoby is his willingness to cooperate with LE as to samples and his dispute with Hobbs' alibi. Another unknown accomplice is possible, but I don't think it was Mr. Bojangles. It is a possibility, however. (I'll discuss Mr. Bojangles next.) There was a hook found in the area that could have been used kind of like a grappling hook to snare the "handles" and pull the boys up. Some of the abrasions on the the bodies have the appearance of road rash. Please be sure to check out Paid's pictures if you haven't:

http://www.wm3blackboard.com/forum/index.php?topic=2386.0

It's also possible that he carried the bodies out of the manhole one at a time, slung over his shoulder. I'm sure that there are other possibilities, but I still believe that Hobbs was the sole perpetrator.

As to Mr. Bojangles, one theory is that he came upon the crime and Terry shot him. One of the Blue Beacon employes, I believe, heard what sounded like a shot around 10 pm or 10:30 pm IIRC. That could account for Mr. Bojangles being bleeding. I'm still not sure what I think. If he was Hobbs' accomplice, I think Hobbs killed him and possibly threw the body into the Mississippi. If he did see the crime, being black, I would imagine that he was afraid to come forward, afraid that they'd try to pin the crime on him. Afterwards, he merely left the area, being a transient. Either that or he left the area, not knowing or having seen anything and his appearance at the restaurant was just one of those weird circumstances of life. BTW, another explanation for the shot is that Terry was scaring off Ryan Clark and his friends who were coming dangerously close to the concealed bodies.

As to leaving the boys unconscious and possibly having them come to and flee, I really believe that Hobbs thought that they were dead when he left them in the manhole. However, as a precaution, he could have placed a large rock on top of the manhole so the boys couldn't have gotten out if they came to before he returned. I believe that he was constantly checking on the manhole throughout the night in fear that they would be discovered.

As to the Pasdar documents, the depositions of Terry Hobbs, Regina Meeks, Gary Gitchell and Larry Mitchell are available on Callahan's:

http://www.callahan.8k.com/hobbs_pasdar/hp_depositions.html

The declarations of many others are available on the Blackboard:

http://www.wm3blackboard.com/forum/index.php?board=47.0

There's more there, but those are the main ones. I don't believe that these declarations are available anywhere else. Amanda's journal is not available at this time. She requested it be removed.

As to the shorts not being appropriate for a night outside, remember we're talking Arkansas in May. The temperature doesn't get that low. Also, I believe that the missing backpacks may have contained extra clothing and/or blankets for the night.

As to other suspects, I agree that James Martin would be high on the list, but I believe he has a solid alibi. Don't remember what it is right now, though. JMB is certainly a flamboyant guy and has a checkered past. However, he is now a staunch supporter of the innocence of the three. The PL videos certainly made him look guilty, but, just like with the three, adjudging him guilty would be done on his actions alone, not on evidence. There is no evidence that shows he did this. Any evidence that pointed that way has now been given other interpretations, especially by the new forensic pathologists who have studied the case for the defense. IIRC, Chris Morgan was likewise cleared with an alibi.

Again, if I missed your question, please ask again!

 

[Cappuccino]

I'm pretty sure James Martin's only alibi was his wife. She knowingly married a convicted child molester, so I'm not sure I'd trust her to tell the truth in a crime against three children. I know next to nothing about Tim Cotton.

Apart from that, I agree with you about the alternative suspects.

 

[SyraKelly]

First, I appreciate all the questions. I absolutely do not and will not take offense at questions about all of this. I will try to give my opinion as to the answers of as many as I remember. (Just a little overwhelmed right now, LOL!) If I miss your question, please ask again. Cappuccino answered some of them, and I agree with what s/he said.

As to why move the bodies, I think Hobbs was afraid that evidence was left on them that could incriminate him. Although there was a small amount of water at the bottom of the manhole (enough to drown in), I don't think it was sufficient to wash away the evidence as I think Hobbs thought submerging them in the drainage ditch would.

Yes, according to the autopsy reports (Branch: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autsb.html ; Byers: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autcb.html ; Moore: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/autmm.html ) the bodies weighed 65, 52 and 55 pounds respectively. There are a couple of possibilities as to how Hobbs could have gotten the bodies out. Jacoby (or some other accomplice) is one. The reason I discount Jacoby is his willingness to cooperate with LE as to samples and his dispute with Hobbs' alibi. Another unknown accomplice is possible, but I don't think it was Mr. Bojangles. It is a possibility, however. (I'll discuss Mr. Bojangles next.) There was a hook found in the area that could have been used kind of like a grappling hook to snare the "handles" and pull the boys up. Some of the abrasions on the the bodies have the appearance of road rash. Please be sure to check out Paid's pictures if you haven't:

http://www.wm3blackboard.com/forum/index.php?topic=2386.0

It's also possible that he carried the bodies out of the manhole one at a time, slung over his shoulder. I'm sure that there are other possibilities, but I still believe that Hobbs was the sole perpetrator.

As to Mr. Bojangles, one theory is that he came upon the crime and Terry shot him. One of the Blue Beacon employes, I believe, heard what sounded like a shot around 10 pm or 10:30 pm IIRC. That could account for Mr. Bojangles being bleeding. I'm still not sure what I think. If he was Hobbs' accomplice, I think Hobbs killed him and possibly threw the body into the Mississippi. If he did see the crime, being black, I would imagine that he was afraid to come forward, afraid that they'd try to pin the crime on him. Afterwards, he merely left the area, being a transient. Either that or he left the area, not knowing or having seen anything and his appearance at the restaurant was just one of those weird circumstances of life. BTW, another explanation for the shot is that Terry was scaring off Ryan Clark and his friends who were coming dangerously close to the concealed bodies.

As to leaving the boys unconscious and possibly having them come to and flee, I really believe that Hobbs thought that they were dead when he left them in the manhole. However, as a precaution, he could have placed a large rock on top of the manhole so the boys couldn't have gotten out if they came to before he returned. I believe that he was constantly checking on the manhole throughout the night in fear that they would be discovered.

As to the Pasdar documents, the depositions of Terry Hobbs, Regina Meeks, Gary Gitchell and Larry Mitchell are available on Callahan's:

http://www.callahan.8k.com/hobbs_pasdar/hp_depositions.html

The declarations of many others are available on the Blackboard:

http://www.wm3blackboard.com/forum/index.php?board=47.0

There's more there, but those are the main ones. I don't believe that these declarations are available anywhere else. Amanda's journal is not available at this time. She requested it be removed.

As to the shorts not being appropriate for a night outside, remember we're talking Arkansas in May. The temperature doesn't get that low. Also, I believe that the missing backpacks may have contained extra clothing and/or blankets for the night.

As to other suspects, I agree that James Martin would be high on the list, but I believe he has a solid alibi. Don't remember what it is right now, though. JMB is certainly a flamboyant guy and has a checkered past. However, he is now a staunch supporter of the innocence of the three. The PL videos certainly made him look guilty, but, just like with the three, adjudging him guilty would be done on his actions alone, not on evidence. There is no evidence that shows he did this. Any evidence that pointed that way has now been given other interpretations, especially by the new forensic pathologists who have studied the case for the defense. IIRC, Chris Morgan was likewise cleared with an alibi.

Again, if I missed your question, please ask again!

I read in TH's interview that LE found a gun at the discovery site that was the same caliber gun that TH says he believes someone stole from him.Is this true?

 

[Cappuccino]

There was a 9mm found in the bayou next to the discovery site. Hobbs owned a 9mm before the murders.

Remember that scene in PL where Byers and Moore are shooting pumpkins? Hobbs was invited to join them, but said he couldn't because someone had stolen his gun.

 

[SyraKelly]

It has been awhile since I have seen the PLS,I lost my glasses and won't be getting a new pair til next week,so I won't be able to watch them until then.I do remember when they went out a did the shooting of the pumpkins,but do not remember he was invited and said he lost his gun..very very interesting to me!!

 

[Compassionate Reader]

IIRC, Hobbs said that the Hicks "stole my gun." I think it was in the Pasdar deposition, but I'm not sure.

 

[deelytful1]

Watching PL2 right now. I can't imagine MB is not involved as well. Too too many lies... too many questions concerning his wife's death... Perhaps the stepfathers made some kind of a pact because the boys were "getting in their way?"
I definitely TH is guilty but i also think MB was involved.

 

[Cappuccino]

It has been awhile since I have seen the PLS,I lost my glasses and won't be getting a new pair til next week,so I won't be able to watch them until then.I do remember when they went out a did the shooting of the pumpkins,but do not remember he was invited and said he lost his gun..very very interesting to me!!

No, that's not in the film. Its just the pumpkin shooting scene in the film, the story about Hobbs being invited and his gun being stolen is told by Hobbs himself in the Pasdar depositions.

 

[SyraKelly]

Watching PL2 right now. I can't imagine MB is not involved as well. Too too many lies... too many questions concerning his wife's death... Perhaps the stepfathers made some kind of a pact because the boys were "getting in their way?"
I definitely TH is guilty but i also think MB was involved.

did'nt TH say in the Pasdar interview that the night the boys went missing was the first night he ever meet MB or am I wrong..I could have sworn I read that somewhere!

 

[SyraKelly]

Cappuccino-OK..LOL--Now I know why I did not remember that scene-I must have missed that part in the P-interview,but remembered the lawyer saying a gun was found that was the same as TH gun! It was a LONG interview!

 

[deelytful1]

did'nt TH say in the Pasdar interview that the night the boys went missing was the first night he ever meet MB or am I wrong..I could have sworn I read that somewhere!

There were a few opinions about this as well. I don't believe it for a minute. Small town, boys were friends, etc...

 

[smart blonde]

Watching PL2 right now. I can't imagine MB is not involved as well. Too too many lies... too many questions concerning his wife's death... Perhaps the stepfathers made some kind of a pact because the boys were "getting in their way?"
I definitely TH is guilty but i also think MB was involved.

For the longest time, I also thought that TH and JMB were involved in this together, and I found it a bit far-fetched that they had never met each other until that night.

I think that the fact that Byers now says he thinks the WM3 are innocent wouldn't disqualify him from being one of the perpetrators. That just seems like it would be a smart and cunning move to help people stop thinking you were the guilty party.

I mean, the murderer would point to the ones already convicted of the crime as being guilty (ala Hobbs), in hopes of deflecting attention away from himself, right. So, an intelligent, manipulative murderer should publicly change his mind and state he thinks the convicted are innocent- because why would the real killer do that? Which is the reason the real killer should do that. Byers may be eccentric, but he is also more intelligent than I think he lets on.

~I should mention that I am extremely tired, and having a hard time explaining what I mean. Hopefully some one can decipher what I'm trying to put across, lol!

Anyway, some where along the line, I too, decided Byers was not involved.
At first it seemed obvious to me that he was, but now I can't remember why I changed my mind.

I completely believe that two male adults killed these boys together. Hobbs and ________?

 

[deelytful1]

For the longest time, I also thought that TH and JMB were involved in this together, and I found it a bit far-fetched that they had never met each other until that night.

I think that the fact that Byers now says he thinks the WM3 are innocent wouldn't disqualify him from being one of the perpetrators. That just seems like it would be a smart and cunning move to help people stop thinking you were the guilty party.

I mean, the murderer would point to the ones already convicted of the crime as being guilty (ala Hobbs), in hopes of deflecting attention away from himself, right. So, an intelligent, manipulative murderer should publicly change his mind and state he thinks the convicted are innocent- because why would the real killer do that? Which is the reason the real killer should do that. Byers may be eccentric, but he is also more intelligent than I think he lets on.

~I should mention that I am extremely tired, and having a hard time explaining what I mean. Hopefully some one can decipher what I'm trying to put across, lol!

Anyway, some where along the line, I too, decided Byers was not involved.
At first it seemed obvious to me that he was, but now I can't remember why I changed my mind.

I completely believe that two male adults killed these boys together. Hobbs and ________?

I totally agree and I feel the same way. It was convenient for JMB to change his opinion AND it kept him in the forefront of the media and the investigation. It was a smart move. So was having his teeth removed and having his wife pass "unexpectedly" IMO. I don't trust him for a minute.... I think he's a sociopath in the true sense of the word and all the meds he was on for his brain tumor allowed him to pass the polygraph. I can't believe they would even perform a polygraph with him being on all those meds! Just some more sensationalism for this case, i think.
Those poor babies...

 

[Nova]

I don't know about all your questions, but wrt the red shorts - Stevie was wearing jeans when his mother last saw him, that's what she described him as wearing in the missing person's report. Another witness who saw him around 6pm says he was wearing red shorts. If that witness is right it means Stevie came home and changed after Pam left for work. So the theory goes that Hobbs would have needed to substitute the shorts for jeans in order to hide the fact that he had seen his stepson while his wife was at work.

As for "were they ever found?", well...I assume he would have simply taken them home, folded them up and put them back in the drawer or wardrobe.

Maybe CR is right about the shorts and when Stevie put them on. I don't know anyone who knows the case facts better than CR.

But one of the things that happens when we study these cases for years on end is we begin to want a theory that includes and explains every possible piece of evidence--including eyewitness testimony, which we all know to be problematic.

I.e., isn't it a simpler explanation that the witness who saw Stevie in red shorts simply had the wrong day?

 

[Nova]

Thank you -- that's what I was asking (about the shorts). They stood out to me because it didn't make sense to me (in CR's scenario) that if that boy was planning on spending the night outside, why would he change into shorts? That doesn't make sense to me. The witness could have been wrong about what he was wearing.

I'm a little bothered by the extensive planning attributed to 8-year-olds in CR's account of the "runnning away plan". My idea of running away at that age consisted of conning my grandmother into inviting me for the weekend, or getting on my bike and simply riding (beyond what was allowed) to her house.

 

[LunaticFringe]

I totally agree and I feel the same way. It was convenient for JMB to change his opinion AND it kept him in the forefront of the media and the investigation. It was a smart move. So was having his teeth removed and having his wife pass "unexpectedly" IMO. I don't trust him for a minute.... I think he's a sociopath in the true sense of the word and all the meds he was on for his brain tumor allowed him to pass the polygraph. I can't believe they would even perform a polygraph with him being on all those meds! Just some more sensationalism for this case, i think.
Those poor babies...

I do not trust JMB either but I do not think he had anything to do with the murders of Chris,Stevie or Michael...I cannot say the same concerning Melissa.I am not accusing him of murdering her but I do question it.

I will say the same thing about him that I say about Terry Hobbs.Why the hell are people supporting him?So what if he now supports Damien,Jason and Jessie?He is NOT an upstanding citizen and he never will be.I do not get why people rush to his defense anymore than why people rush to Terry's defense.They are both criminals.I guess I just refuse to understand the admiration that anyone gives to Terry Hobbs or John Mark Byers.They both are the epitome of pure white trash.

 

[Cappuccino]

Maybe CR is right about the shorts and when Stevie put them on. I don't know anyone who knows the case facts better than CR.

But one of the things that happens when we study these cases for years on end is we begin to want a theory that includes and explains every possible piece of evidence--including eyewitness testimony, which we all know to be problematic.

I.e., isn't it a simpler explanation that the witness who saw Stevie in red shorts simply had the wrong day?

I'm not tied into this manhole theory at all. I'm certainly not cherry picking facts to suit it, I'm completely neutral, agnostic on the subject.

Also, totally agree about the unreliability of eyewitness evidence. According to the Innocence Project, 75% of convictions overturned with DNA evidence involved flawed eyewitness statements at the original trial.

The fact still remains - that witness testimony is not the only thing which suggests Stevie went home after his mother went to work. The Ballards, the stomach contents, and the testimony of Pam Hobbs that she left dinner for Stevie consistent with the stomach contents.

The rest of Pam's family also testified about Terry Hobbs doing an awful lot of laundry on the night of May 6th. Maybe the shorts were muddy, and he was washing lots of other stuff as an excuse to throw them in unnoticed?

 

[*~Aimee~*]

Whose board is BB? It said originally Marks in a PM from them today? Mark who?