Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #2

[Meyahna]

Does anyone know why they say the man's name could be Jock or Jacques, why don't they say Jack or Jake, it looks as much as Jock as Jacques does?

 

[Meyahna]

Ok, I've found an answer to my question online.
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=429165

I was wondering if you pronounced them the same way in English. Jacques can't be mistaken for Jock in French. So I dk if the man could have been a French speaker if he had said his name, I don't see why the other would have thought it could be Jock he would rather have mixed it with Jack possibly.

 

[Meyahna]

Oh lol I was actually wondering if you said Jock Chiroc but they say so on that board.

 

[superunknown]

They don't look much French to me, French people rarely have an olive complexion unless they are of foreign descent, Italian, Spanish or Portugese but then they could as much be from these countries. Also their features really aren't French even from South of France, to me they looked a bit Cuban, most of all the guy or of Greek descent possibly.
Btw, women do shave for decades in France, and maybe much more, I am not sure wherever this myth of French women not shaving comes from but that is really just a myth...

We must remember this was 1976. I remember traveling to France during this time (as I said, I am of French descent and much of my family is there) and the women I remember seeing in Western Europe were not shaving underarms or legs, particularly in France, Germany and Austria.

Also, skin colours in France really vary, especially the closer you get to Spain. You will see people who look very hispanic in the South, especially in the Dordogne and near the Pyrenees.

Also, is the name Jacques common in Greece and Cuba? (if we are still operating under the assumption that was his name?) It is possible they could be from South America just because many Europeans migrated to Argentina (and other countries) after World War II. Based on the estimated ages of these young people they would have been born after the war ended.

 

[superunknown]

Ok, I've found an answer to my question online.
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=429165

I was wondering if you pronounced them the same way in English. Jacques can't be mistaken for Jock in French. So I dk if the man could have been a French speaker if he had said his name, I don't see why the other would have thought it could be Jock he would rather have mixed it with Jack possibly.

Try this too:

http://www.research.att.com/~ttsweb/tts/demo.php

You can enter the name and listen to it pronounced by various accents and genders.

 

[Meyahna]

I'm French. My mother shaved since she was a teen I don't know I've always seen women shaving around me apart from my best-friend once when I was a teen who had put a tank-top with unshaven underarms and I was Uh?! when I saw that. I don't know her lol. Yurck. It might be people from working class who didn't shave much by then. Still my mother's family was kinda working class.

No the first name Jacques isn't used in Greece or Cuba that was more for their descent or if the story about Jock and the father being a Doctor wasn't true.

 

[Meyahna]

Ty for the link, the "French Juliette" link is the way the first name is pronounced in French.

 

[superunknown]

Yurck.

That's cute. You type that exactly like my family members do !

 

[pardilia]

Ty for the link, the "French Juliette" link is the way the first name is pronounced in French.

If you listen to it in English, it sounds like 'Jock'. I've always heard it pronounced similarly, so I just assumed that if they asked someone who hadn't been exposed to French as part of their education, they would have thought it was "Jock" as opposed to "Jacques". (Also, if the person was asked to spell it, they would have spelled it phonetically, trying to match it with a name or word they already knew.)

I think the "french" part probably comes from the origin of his name, plus if he spoke with any accent...someone along the way might just assume it was french because of his name.

 

[kygal]

I have just a few thoughts here, and I don't know just how much of this has been discussed. Please forgive me if this is a recovering of things.

1. The guy LOOKS to be either Mediteranean/Eastern European or Middle Eastern to me. The girl actually does look more either American (or Northern/Western European) or Latina.

2. Does anyone know where the shots were on the bodies? Their clothes have VERY little blood on them (judging by the photos on OP site). Makes me wonder if they could have been killed somewhere else and dumped. (This may have already been established -- read too much at once and now I can't remember.)

3. "Jacques" is a rather distinctive French name. Somehow I'm thinking that he is not ALL of one race/regional background. Could mother or father have been French and the other Mediteranian or Middle Eastern? I have a few friends that are of that lineage and they have many similar features.

Hopefully they will get to that exhumation and do some of the testing that will determine lineage soon. I think a lot of answers could be gained now with the advances in scientific technology.

 

[Meyahna]

Yes, I agree with you Kygal about the origins. I was wondering if he could have some Egyptian descent maybe. The girl looks a bit Slavic to me on the contrary. That is strange though, they do have some resemblance to me but not that much for a brother and sister. And maybe they were just both tanned after spending months on the road.

I do think Jacques comes from the French first name. I find Jock to be a rather ridiculous first name, dk makes me think about Joke or Jocks straps (hoping there is no one named Jock around) so maybe his first name rather was Jacques. Then it is possible if he was from Canada he was closer to Quebec, I don't know if there is a geographical repartition of this first name in QC.

I think possibly his father imigrated and was offered a job in Canada as he was a good doctor. That would explain why he disowned his son after working a lot to get a good job maybe he wanted his son to do the same. I dk if it's so common for Canadians to do so. Then if he was from a strict mediterranean country that might explain why he did that. This more in their culture to "disown" people. Hispanic are much more family.

 

[MaryLiz]

I have just a few thoughts here, and I don't know just how much of this has been discussed. Please forgive me if this is a recovering of things.

1. The guy LOOKS to be either Mediteranean/Eastern European or Middle Eastern to me. The girl actually does look more either American (or Northern/Western European) or Latina.

2. Does anyone know where the shots were on the bodies? Their clothes have VERY little blood on them (judging by the photos on OP site). Makes me wonder if they could have been killed somewhere else and dumped. (This may have already been established -- read too much at once and now I can't remember.)

3. "Jacques" is a rather distinctive French name. Somehow I'm thinking that he is not ALL of one race/regional background. Could mother or father have been French and the other Mediteranian or Middle Eastern? I have a few friends that are of that lineage and they have many similar features.

Hopefully they will get to that exhumation and do some of the testing that will determine lineage soon. I think a lot of answers could be gained now with the advances in scientific technology.

KYGirl, they were shot in the back, chest and throat at close range. I also wondered about the lack of blood on them from the photos on the Crime Library. We can't really see too much in those photos but I didn't remember seeing any blood.

The did do the exhumation in June...now they're just waiting on DNA results to enter them into worldwide databases.

http://www.theitem.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070809/ITNEWS01/108090148

 

[pardilia]

I do think Jacques comes from the French first name. I find Jock to be a rather ridiculous first name, dk makes me think about Joke or Jocks straps (hoping there is no one named Jock around) so maybe his first name rather was Jacques. Then it is possible if he was from Canada he was closer to Quebec, I don't know if there is a geographical repartition of this first name in QC.

I think possibly his father imigrated and was offered a job in Canada as he was a good doctor. That would explain why he disowned his son after working a lot to get a good job maybe he wanted his son to do the same. I dk if it's so common for Canadians to do so. Then if he was from a strict mediterranean country that might explain why he did that. This more in their culture to "disown" people. Hispanic are much more family.

http://www.research.att.com/~ttsweb/tts/demo.php

If you use the first option, in US English, "Jacques' sounds like 'Z-uh-ock' (to break it down phonetically), very close to 'Jock'. A completely different pronounciation from ANY of the French versions offered at that particular site.

I think the man probably pronounced his name according to the English pronounciation and that is why the (probably not quite educated or 'worldly') campground employee thought his name was "Jock". If he was from Quebec or had a more immediate French background (as in parents fluently spoke the language), he probably would have pronounced his name much differently.

The story about his father disowning him could also be a polished up version of the truth as well. Not many people tell the 'whole truth' about those sorts of affairs to people. It could have even had just been a colorful road story he liked to tell people. Perhaps his father 'disowned' him (stopped paying for school/otherwise cut him off financially) because he was involved in drugs and the angry son took off to hitchhike and travel the US and somehow met the girl during his travels?

 

[kygal]

KYGirl, they were shot in the back, chest and throat at close range. I also wondered about the lack of blood on them from the photos on the Crime Library. We can't really see too much in those photos but I didn't remember seeing any blood.

The did do the exhumation in June...now they're just waiting on DNA results to enter them into worldwide databases.

http://www.theitem.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070809/ITNEWS01/108090148

I was wondering if perhaps they had not been redressed or something. I did a little work on enlarging it and there is LITTLE if ANY blood on the guys shirt. One would think that there'd be blood on it -- especially from the shot in the neck. At close range the spatter would have been something unless the gun was literally right next to them.

Thanks for the DNA update. I think that they could/should do an extensive one if they can.

 

[phenolred]

I have also always wondered why there doesnt appear to be any blod on them. I wonder if the photo was retouched to be published in the paper so it wouldnt be gory??? I wish when they exhumed them they could have tested for drugs in their systems...

 

[Angie4b1g]

Grr I just know he's that guy from Australia that I found.

 

[Richard]

I have also always wondered why there doesnt appear to be any blod on them. I wonder if the photo was retouched to be published in the paper so it wouldnt be gory??? I wish when they exhumed them they could have tested for drugs in their systems...

The amount of blood visable would depend in large part on the nature and placement of the wound and on how long the heart continued to pump after the wounds were made.

They were each shot three times. The case summaries do not state what caliber or type of weapon was used, only that there were wounds to the back, chest, and throat.

A large caliber or high power weapon would make an entrance wound the diameter of the bullet, but the exit wound might be much larger. More damage would be done internally, and more blood would be an expected result.

If the bullet was of small caliber and only made small entrance holes, then most bleeding would have been internal. A shot to the lungs would have produced a lot of bleeding which would have exited the body from both the wound entrance/exit and from the mouth and nose.

If a major artery or vein is struck by the bullet, more bleeding results. It is possible, however for a bullet to miss major arteries and organs, and for very little blood to be seen.

I do not know whether or not the bodies were cleaned of blood prior to the specific photos being taken, but it is probable that they were. Photos are taken for two reasons: first to record the position and nature of the wounds, and second to help identify the victims.

 

[superunknown]

They were each shot three times. The case summaries do not state what caliber or type of weapon was used, only that there were wounds to the back, chest, and throat.

The newspaper article linked below states a .357 was matched to this crime:

In 1977 SLED matched bullets from a .357-caliber Magnum with the serial number filed off to bullets taken from the bodies. Entry wound examinations revealed someone shot them in the back of their heads to finish them off.

http://www.theitem.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070809/ITNEWS01/108090148

 

[shellbee]

Did investigators ever make a determination based on the amount of blood and/or splatter at the scene whether they were shot right there on the road, or shot somewhere else and transported?

 

[MaryLiz]

Did investigators ever make a determination based on the amount of blood and/or splatter at the scene whether they were shot right there on the road, or shot somewhere else and transported?

shellbee - I found an old newspaper article that said authorities believed they were shot where they were found.

Bodies Located Monday
Are Still Unidentified
SUMTER (AP)-​

Sumter authorities believe an unidentified man and woman whose bodies were found Monday on a dirt road near the Florence County line probably were out of state travelers. "We've sent teletypes everywhere," Kumler County Sheriff I. Byrd Parnell said, adding that they had received inquiries from as far away as Rhode Island. He also said that bulletins describing the two have been sent to other states and missing persons reports are being checked. The two were found about 6:20 a.m. near 1-95 and S.C. 141 by a man on his way to work. The dead man was about six feet tall, weighed 150 to 160 pounds and had brown shoulder-length hair. The woman was about 5-5, weighed about 110 pounds and had reddish brown hair. Both are believed to have been in their early 20s. "This girl was very young and very pretty. He was clean shaven. They were well groomed. They weren't the hippie-type. They looked like the All-American boy and girl travelers," Parnell said, "It looks like they were executed right there."

Sumter County Coroner J. Bennie Raffield said the bodies were about four or five feet apart and that both were lying on their backs. The two are believed to have been shot between midnight Sunday and 1 a.m. Monday, the coroner said. Area residents reported hearing gunshots from the area about that time.​