Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #3

[Sayruh]

also, about the no underwear thing, i read that the jane doe also hadnt shaved her legs. I dont know if shaving your that was common back then, but with the time period they may have just been very 'free'

 

[websurfer]

I have checked for missing people on there and none even come close..
maybe they are from some sort of home?
And were not reported missing ?

Sad....

 

[Fairy1]

I'm sorry if this has already been posted, but I was just skimming this thread

I read that they matched prints to a woman in CA?

I found this woman, she went missing from CA in May of 1976 she was going to meet a guy named 'Jeff' which I think can sound like 'jock' the stats are pretty close

http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200300245S

Wow - I do believe this one should be checked out!

 

[phenolred]

Here is a morphing pic I did it shows Jock Doe Morphing into Jane Doe I think it really helps show how alike they look as far as a brother & sister with similar features

 

[anyc]

Wow - I do believe this one should be checked out!

Unfortunately, fairy, the woman whose profile you posted is blonde. Jane Doe is a brunette, and since she didn't shave her legs, I doubt she would have been a bottle-blonde at the time.
Speaking of not shaving, I think too much is being made of that point. It wasn't that uncommon at the time for women not to shave, especially "hippie" types, which these two sound like, from their manner of dress (though of the bourgeois variety). : ) I spent a year hitchhiking around the U.S., and when one is traveling like that, especially, shaving one's legs was not exactly a priority(nor should it be now, IMO -women are still forced to do such ridiculous things!)
I think a good ol' boy at the PD back then was probably scandalized(as was, prob'ly, by the absence of underwear - good grief. When have you ever heard of that mentioned in a MP report?"um, let's see...she's 5'5, blue eyes, brown hair, and -oh- she seldom wears underwear.")
Has anyone heard of a follow-up on the fact he mentioned he was, or had been, a teacher? Any leads from that?

 

[elepher50]

Novice sleuther here and trying to learn from ya'all - you are very good. I am intrigued by the reference to Canada and the name "Jock". French Canadian populations in Canada - Quebec of course, then the eastern provinces(NB,NS,PEI,NFLD). I suspect that the name "Jock" is Jacques as already has been mentioned. From the pictures and the descriptions it would be my humble opinion that these unknown victims may well be siblings from a union between a French Canadian and MicMac (Native Indian) - proper spelling is Mi'kmaq. Now to the initials on the ring - JPF - J normally stands for either Jean or Jacques, P normally stands for either Paul or Pierre. Now for the F in the initials: Common French surnames in Canada starting with F would be: Fontaine, Forand, Forget, Forgione, Fortier, Fortin, Fournier and Foy.
I am amazed at how you find the information that you do - I am following along and trying to learn. I am not really stuck on all of this info that I have just posted - it is just that the facial features struck me as being French Canadian/Mi'kmaq. I did some preliminary searches but did not get very far - not as fast as you folks.

 

[Fairy1]

Unfortunately, fairy, the woman whose profile you posted is blonde. Jane Doe is a brunette, and since she didn't shave her legs, I doubt she would have been a bottle-blonde at the time.
Speaking of not shaving, I think too much is being made of that point. It wasn't that uncommon at the time for women not to shave, especially "hippie" types, which these two sound like, from their manner of dress (though of the bourgeois variety). : ) I spent a year hitchhiking around the U.S., and when one is traveling like that, especially, shaving one's legs was not exactly a priority(nor should it be now, IMO -women are still forced to do such ridiculous things!)
I think a good ol' boy at the PD back then was probably scandalized(as was, prob'ly, by the absence of underwear - good grief. When have you ever heard of that mentioned in a MP report?"um, let's see...she's 5'5, blue eyes, brown hair, and -oh- she seldom wears underwear.")
Has anyone heard of a follow-up on the fact he mentioned he was, or had been, a teacher? Any leads from that?

I would never discount someone on the basis of their hair color! There are plenty of other matches in the timing and physical descriptions to, at the very least, check it out. This girl was from Berkeley, which was full of "free spirits" at the time. The fact that JD's legs weren't shaved when she was found is of no importance to me whatsoever. It certainly doesn't speak to her desire to be attractive. She clearly appeared to have been well-groomed and very stylish otherwise. We should leave no stone unturned.....this has gone on long enough!

 

[elepher50]

Okay, over to the more experienced here - here is a missing from Ottawa (VINCENT was last seen in New Mexico) - I don't think the year or the weight match up but there is a resemblance and the mention of New Mexico(box of matches) - can one of you with more experience take a quick look?:
Link: http://www.ottawapolice.ca/en/serving_ottawa/major_crime/missing_main.cfm

 

[lorelei]

Okay, over to the more experienced here - here is a missing from Ottawa (VINCENT was last seen in New Mexico) - I don't think the year or the weight match up but there is a resemblance and the mention of New Mexico(box of matches) - can one of you with more experience take a quick look?:
Link: http://www.ottawapolice.ca/en/serving_ottawa/major_crime/missing_main.cfm

He does look like the sketch (not so much the morgue photo though?)and New Mexico would certainly fit.
But the Ottawa police site says Jean Vincent was last seen in April of 1978, and has blue eyes not brown. Its a good guess but the dates and eye color would probably rule him out I think.
ETA also height- John Doe was 6 ft+ and Jean Vincent is listed as 5'6".

 

[phenolred]

I was messing around with one of the pics of Jane Does Rings because of the conflicting information on the rings

Based on the info from the Doe Network here is the description of the rings

Jewelry: Three Silver rings that resembled American Indian or Mexican handmade jewelry.


1)One piece was a faceted band with red, white and blue stones.

2)Another ring had a oblong black stone.

3)The third was a large, intricate feather scroll band with a jade insert into the curves of the scroll.

It just seems like they have gottern some of the details of the rings messed up.

Originally the only 2 pics of rings we had seen were the feather ring and the Oblong enlay ring.

It seems pretty clear that the feather ring has a Coral stone not a Jade stone. UNLESS there is a tiny piece of jade in between the Blue stone & the red/coral stone. Could this be the one they were referring to as a red white and blue stone ring? I dont think so since the other explanation says a feather scroll.



Also, by looking at the 3 stone ring it just looks more primitive to me, the ovals are all different shapes maybe it is alot older than the other 2.

I did some photo work on the ring to decrease the contrast and emboss it etc, and it is pretty interesting how they turned out. the stone on the far left turned out alot darker just by changing the contrast / gamma.

also you can see the uneven ovals and primitive looking shapes and some sort of disturbance on the bottom of the silver

here they are take a look I would love to hear what you guys think

 

[elepher50]

The three stone ring looks to be hand-crafted to me because of the different shapes/sizes - not symetrical at all. The disturbance at the bottom of the ring - do you think the ring was damaged or do you think there was some sort of substance on the ring that is showing up in the picture? If it is some sort of substance could there maybe be some dna on it that could be tested?
Thanks for letting me join in on this forum - I spent time on the weekend looking through "missing from Canada" and really did not come up with anything. Is there anything that you know of that I could be "hard slogging" through that may make a difference here as I will devote time to the hard slogging so I can learn.

 

[phenolred]

Here is a link to a map image that shows the route from the Grants Truck stop in New Mexico, it goes all the way through NM, then into Texas, OK, Arkansas, Tennesse, then into North Carolina, then all they would have had to do is head south off I-40 into South Carolina, it like a straight shot across the US, into the Carolinas.....

A portion of this route was the old route 66, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Interstate_40_map.png

 

[Tom Friendly]

Here is a link to a map image that shows the route from the Grants Truck stop in New Mexico, it goes all the way through NM, then into Texas, OK, Arkansas, Tennesse, then into North Carolina, then all they would have had to do is head south off I-40 into South Carolina, it like a straight shot across the US, into the Carolinas.....

A portion of this route was the old route 66, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Interstate_40_map.png

Hello Phenolred,

I came across this case on the OPP (Ontario Provincial Police) website. They added the case recently as well as a whole new redo of their website. I had some luck in solving a case from there last March and I've been away from this board since then but I'm back and interested in this case that you seem to be heading.

What do you think about April Rose Zane as a possible match to Jane Doe?

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1404dfil.html

There are some similarities such as height, eye colour, facial freckels. She went missing in 1977 with a note that says possibly 1976. Known as a run away.



I also wanted to add that "Jacques" can also be "Jock, Jack, Jacks, Jocks, Jaques"

Also although Quebec is the obvious province to choose for French speaking people, most of the East coast provinces have a large number of French speaking people. New Brunswick should really be considered a bilingual province as a majority of people there speak French as the primary language and most signs are in French first, English second.

Lastly about the JPF ring. People are assuming that F is the last name. Often times the last letter is the middle name and the second letter is the last name. Is there a picture of the engraving? Perhaps JPF are the Father's initials? Why pawn the engraved ring but not the expensive Bulova watch that he was wearing? If he were disowned then perhaps he wouldn't mind selling his father's ring for travel money as was noted by the KOA employee.

 

[elepher50]

I have looked at every missing person listed in Canada, all the doctors listed in the Canadian Directory for doctors of distinction at:
http://www.royalcollege.ca/index_e.php?submit=Search
and have come up blank for a last name starting with F (based on all the initials on the ring being the same size) with subsequent searches to see if any of them had reported a son missing - nothing found. I believe all of these steps have been gone through by several of you as well but I thought some new ones may have been added recently - nope, no matches. These unidentifieds seem to have not been reported missing in Canada for some reason. The records of licensed teachers in Canada in virtually non existant and one would have to go to each college/university to determine graduates around the early 70's. From the map that Phenolred posted above it would appear reasonable that the entry from Canada to the U.S. would have been from the western part of Canada and not the Quebec or Central Region of Canada - that is if the male was truly from Canada and this was not just a story.
Does anybody know if the DNA testing has come back yet?
Still looking, and trying to find some connections. Friendly Tom, I looked at April Rose Zane from your posting and there doesn't seem to be a match based on "no scars were listed on the vital statistics for our Jane Doe" and April Rose Zane doesn't appear to have the moles on her left cheek like Jane Doe does.
Puzzling to say the least but still looking and thinking. Am continuing on with the licensed teachers from that timeframe that would fit the age category of the unidentified male but it is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

 

[MaryLiz]

At one time it was discussed on here about the initials and the possibility of the second initial being the last name. Someone mentioned if that were the case, the middle initial would be larger than the other ones. At that time I e-mailed the Sumter County Sheriff to ask about getting a photograph of the initials. I was told that the initials were too faded now and wouldn't photograph well. Anyway, the sheriff told me then that all 3 initials on the ring were the same size.

 

[elepher50]

At one time it was discussed on here about the initials and the possibility of the second initial being the last name. Someone mentioned if that were the case, the middle initial would be larger than the other ones. At that time I e-mailed the Sumter County Sheriff to ask about getting a photograph of the initials. I was told that the initials were too faded now and wouldn't photograph well. Anyway, the sheriff told me then that all 3 initials on the ring were the same size.

Hi ... thanks for clarifying the initials on the ring. Do you happen to know if the DNA was ever processed?

 

[MaedchenX]

I was looking at the cases again on the doe network site and noticed that the bodies had been exhumed for DNA in 2007. I was wondering if it had ever been suggested that investigators pursue isotope analysis of their as a way of determining where the two where from? I tend to think that they were indeed Canadian, but it would be helpful in ruling out other possibilities. I know very little about the science but thought it might be applicable and helpful in a case of unknown origins.

Also, if there are any francophones here it might be helpful to compose a post about this case and submit it to a website where French speakers post looking to reunite with lost friends and loved ones.

The following is one that I have come across and many French speakers from around the globe seem to use it regularly.

http://www.morigolo.net/forum/perdu-de-vue.php?ligne=0

 

[MaryLiz]

Hi ... thanks for clarifying the initials on the ring. Do you happen to know if the DNA was ever processed?

Hi elepher - As far as I know, the Sumter County Coroner is still waiting for the DNA results. The trouble is, the place processing the DNA in Texas, keeps putting other current cases ahead of this one and it keeps getting backed up...

 

[elepher50]

I was looking at the cases again on the doe network site and noticed that the bodies had been exhumed for DNA in 2007. I was wondering if it had ever been suggested that investigators pursue isotope analysis of their as a way of determining where the two where from? I tend to think that they were indeed Canadian, but it would be helpful in ruling out other possibilities. I know very little about the science but thought it might be applicable and helpful in a case of unknown origins.

Also, if there are any francophones here it might be helpful to compose a post about this case and submit it to a website where French speakers post looking to reunite with lost friends and loved ones.

The following is one that I have come across and many French speakers from around the globe seem to use it regularly.

http://www.morigolo.net/forum/perdu-de-vue.php?ligne=0

What an excellent idea - I am north of the border in the Canadian white out zone and have contact with many Francophones who would not mind translating a post to put on the site that you have noted. I am not Francophone but am able to read French somewhat - not good enough to translate unfortunately. I am a newbie to this site, so if you have any ideas of a post that we can put out there, just pm it to me and I will have it translated into French and we can take it from there. Awesome idea.

 

[MaedchenX]

What an excellent idea - I am north of the border in the Canadian white out zone and have contact with many Francophones who would not mind translating a post to put on the site that you have noted. I am not Francophone but am able to read French somewhat - not good enough to translate unfortunately. I am a newbie to this site, so if you have any ideas of a post that we can put out there, just pm it to me and I will have it translated into French and we can take it from there. Awesome idea.

That is great news! My mothers family is French Canadian and I had her look at some posts with me today, we are equally hopeless with the language though. I am fairly new to WS myself and have been trying to think of a way to phrase a post which is both informative and will sollicit the desired response but will not be too disturbing for anyone who might come across it. I will try and think about it some more and get back to you with something.

Now I know this is likely nothing, and I may be grasping at straws here but I thought I would post it anyway. There is someone in Canada on the aforementioned website looking for a Jacques Patrice Laurent and a Josiane Debailleux. They are the poster's parents. I can not figure out how to link to the posts but if someone should want to find them you can use the names 'Jacques Patrice' and 'Josiane Debailleux' in the search engine and should come across all three posts. Again, probably nothing.