Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #4

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Has anyone ever looked at the Amish community?
When they get a certain age they are allowed to leave for a certain amount of time, if they don't come back the family disowns them IIRC..

IMO they don't look Amish. Most of my family is Amish and I live in what people call "Amish Country." Amish people have a look about them and I just don't see it in these two. Males are usually the only ones to participate in the Rumspringer, so it would be a little unusual for the female to have gone on a Rumspringer and never returned, but not unheard of. Coming from someone who is shunned, it is a good thought that would explain nobody looking for them. Also, the male had extensive work done on his teeth which would be unusual for the Amish. Ok, back to my lurking...
 
IMO they don't look Amish. Most of my family is Amish and I live in what people call "Amish Country." Amish people have a look about them and I just don't see it in these two. Males are usually the only ones to participate in the Rumspringer, so it would be a little unusual for the female to have gone on a Rumspringer and never returned, but not unheard of. Coming from someone who is shunned, it is a good thought about would explain nobody looking for them. Also, the male had extensive work done on his teeth which would be unusual for the Amish. Ok, back to my lurking...

Thank you for adding that, glad you came out of lurking.

How about the Pennsylvania Dutch? Look at the guy's hair in the crime scene photo, he has that wiry hair, reminds me of the Penn Dutch I see here at the farmers market.
 
Here is an interesting website. If the mods. feel it dosen't apply to this case, please delete.

http://www.missing-cy.org/

Lots of photos of missing people.

Most of the missing Cypriots are those killed during the Turkish Invasion of Cyprus in 1974. They were buried in mass graves, and effort is being made to identify them. I learned this from contacting them.
 
Honestly, I believe him. When he told someone that his father was a "Famous Canadian Doctor". I believe that. The woman didn't tell anyone where she was from as far as we know. Why is that?
 
Just to give you all an update, I'm still in contact with the woman in Canada who is assisting me with trying to find out any information on a doctor in Canada who had a son named Jock/Jacques. In the meantime, I contacted Bulova Accutron this morning and asked them about the #H918863. The man I spoke to told me that they no longer have records from 1968, but he told me that these types of watches during this time period were found in New York and Switzerland. He also said that most of the watches were sold in the United States. I also contacted a watch dealer to see if he could assist me and he was unable to provide any information.

Okay, here is an idea, that could be out there, but, I throw it out anyway. Back in 1976, I got a Bulova for a gift. It was a decent watch, not cheap. Remember, this is a time pre designer clothes and all the status things we have now. There was not the plethora of places to buy things. Bulovas came from jewelry stores and possibly dept stores. IIRC, Bulova advertised in magazines, like Vogue, 17, Glamour and in the mags would be lists of retail stores - in the ad, on the side of the page. If someone could find a library that had back issues, and some still do - just some copies from the early mid 70s, find a list of retail locations, and then we could cross check to missing in various areas. I could help with the cross checking but can't do a library run this week. Mine was bought at a jewelry store in a small city. The jeweler is still in business and while they are computerized, they keep old records. Others might as well.
 
I have decided to make this my pet case. I figure I have two extra hours a day since I am not watching Nancy Grace or Issues anymore, and am giving up on the Casey Anthony Case and the Hayleigh Cummings case. They have enough attention and just make my blood pressure rise.

I am going back to reread from the beginning and am going to work on making a rule out list while I do so, unless this has been done? If so, I can't find it, could someone point me to it.
 
Okay, here is an idea, that could be out there, but, I throw it out anyway. Back in 1976, I got a Bulova for a gift. It was a decent watch, not cheap. Remember, this is a time pre designer clothes and all the status things we have now. There was not the plethora of places to buy things. Bulovas came from jewelry stores and possibly dept stores. IIRC, Bulova advertised in magazines, like Vogue, 17, Glamour and in the mags would be lists of retail stores - in the ad, on the side of the page. If someone could find a library that had back issues, and some still do - just some copies from the early mid 70s, find a list of retail locations, and then we could cross check to missing in various areas. I could help with the cross checking but can't do a library run this week. Mine was bought at a jewelry store in a small city. The jeweler is still in business and while they are computerized, they keep old records. Others might as well.


I checked newspaper archives some time ago for ads to see what year excactly that watch was being sold. There are lots of different types (many advertised as the perfect graduation gift), but not the exact one Jock Doe had. I'll have another look...:)
 
Could someone please be kind to remind me where and how the truck driver called the police after he found the bodies? I don't think I have read this anywhere, but I would like to know. Did he go to a nearby house? He obviously didn't use his cell phone.:)

Did the truck driver discover them at 6.20, or was that the time the police arrived? How long did it take for the police to arrive after the truck driver's call?


edit: I searched newspaperarchives for ads, I spent my whole Saturday looking at Bulova Accutron watches! Did not find his watch. I did however find his watch at a different search, the number on that watch said it was made in 1974, not 1968.
 
Could someone please be kind to remind me where and how the truck driver called the police after he found the bodies? I don't think I have read this anywhere, but I would like to know.

Did he go to a nearby house? He obviously didn't use his cell phone.:)

Did the truck driver discover them at 6.20, or was that the time the police arrived?
How long did it take for the police to arrive after the truck driver's call?


edit: I searched newspaperarchives for ads, I spent my whole Saturday looking at Bulova Accutron watches! Did not find his watch.

I did however find his watch at a different search, the number on that watch said it was made in 1974, not 1968.....

mayfairlight, All good questions that need to be answered.

I would like to ad a question to this:
Who was the truck driver?? I have always wondered if the truck driver was in fact, Lonnie H.....:eek:

How long have we been waiting on the DNA test? I'm keeping my fingers crossed the DNA was received by the Lab and has not been Lost!
 
I don't think I saved the info I read about the trucker. It was mentioned in one of the posts, don't recall finding a lot about him except that he is now dead.
 
Maybe Verna Moore (?) or someone could enlighten us as to the answers to these questions?

:)
 
I am going to follow-up with my contact tonight in Canada regarding Fortier, but in the meantime I found this on a website for Fortier.

"I am oriented biomedical research because it is the most wonderful intellectual adventure in which I could myself. Pour moi, s'attaquer à la solution d'une parcelle du mystère de la vie est une quête fascinante. For me, addressing the solution of a piece of the mystery of life is a fascinating quest. Car la complexité d'une seule cellule vivante est, sans conteste, plus grande que celle de l'ensemble du cosmos », déclare Claude Fortier. Because the complexity of a single living cell is no doubt greater than that of the whole cosmos, "says Claude Fortier. Celui à qui l'on doit l'essor de l'endocrinologie au Québec exprime ainsi tout son émerveillement à l'égard de la recherche. He to whom we owe the rise of endocrinology in Quebec expressed its astonishment with regard to research. Sa curiosité scientifique trouve son expression dans l'étude des interactions entre les émotions, le fonctionnement du cerveau et les contrôles hormonaux. His scientific curiosity is reflected in the study of interactions between emotions, brain function and hormonal controls. Ses travaux ouvriront la voie à la découverte du secteur de pointe de la physiologie moderne qu'est la neuroendocrinologie. His work will pave the way for the discovery of the sector of the physiology of modern neuroendocrinology. Jacques Genest précise d'ailleurs à son sujet que l'on peut « résumer toute la vie de Claude Fortier en disant qu'il était littéralement un géant sur le plan scientifique, médical et intellectuel et qu'il a donné toute son énergie au progrès de la science ». Jacques Genest also states on it that we can "sum up the life of Claude Fortier, saying it was literally a giant on the scientific, medical and intellectual and that he gave all his energy to the progress of science.

L'exploration de la physiologie moderne The pursuit of modern physiology

Étudiant en médecine, Claude Fortier perçoit déjà dans les années 40, l'importance du contrôle exercé par le système nerveux sur les glandes endocrines, un domaine inexploré à l'époque. Medical student, Claude Fortier is already receiving in 40 years, the importance of the control of the nervous system, the endocrine, an unexplored area at the time. L'orientation de recherche du professeur se précise lors de son séjour au laboratoire d'Hans Selye, chercheur de l'Université de Montréal devenu chef de file dans l'étude du stress. The focus of research by Professor emerged during his stay at the laboratory of Hans Selye, a researcher at the University of Montreal has become a leader in the study of stress. Ce stage permet au docteur Fortier de lancer véritablement sa carrière. Il élabore, avec ses collègues (dont le docteur Roger Guillemin, prix Nobel de physiologie et de médecine en 1977), des principes biologiques qui conduisent à la création de la neuroendocrinologie. This placement allows the doctor to start really Fortier his career. He developed with his colleagues (including Dr. Roger Guillemin, Nobel Prize in Physiology and Medicine in 1977), biological principles that lead to the creation of the neuroendocrinology. En fait, il est l'un des tout premiers chercheurs, à l'échelle mondiale, à démontrer clairement l'influence des stimuli sensoriels (le son, la lumière) et des stimuli émotionnels (la colère, la peur, la frustration) sur la sécrétion d'ACTH, communément appelée l'« hormone du stress ». In fact, it is one of the leading researchers on a global scale, to clearly demonstrate the influence of sensory stimuli (sound, light) and emotional stimuli (anger, fear, frustration) on ACTH secretion, commonly called the "stress hormone".

Claude Fortier cherche dès lors à mettre en évidence le mécanisme sous-jacent à de telles réactions, ce qui l'amène à travailler à l'Université de Londres, en collaboration avec le professeur Geoffrey W. Claude Fortier therefore seeks to highlight the underlying mechanism of such reactions, which led him to work at the University of London, in collaboration with Professor Geoffrey W. Harris, l'un des rares spécialistes de la neuroendocrinologie. Harris, one of the few specialists in neuroendocrinology. Les travaux des deux chercheurs, qui portent sur les hormones du cerveau, sont aujourd'hui considérés comme des classiques constituant la base d'une meilleure compréhension des systèmes endocriniens. The work of two researchers who focus on hormones of the brain, are now considered classics as the basis for a better understanding of endocrine systems.

La renommée sans cesse croissante du docteur Fortier attire l'attention des milieux de la recherche. The growing reputation of Dr. Fortier attracts the attention of the research. On l'invite ainsi à diriger le premier laboratoire de neuroendocrinologie en Amérique à l'Université de Baylor, au Texas, où il est également professeur. It invites to lead the first laboratory of neuroendocrinology at the American University of Baylor, Texas, where he also teaches. Il y retrouve son collègue, Roger Guillemin, avec qui il élabore, entre autres, ce qui est reconnu alors comme le meilleur essai biologique permettant de mesurer l'hormone du stress. He found his colleague, Roger Guillemin, who is developing, among others, which is then recognized as the best assay to measure the stress hormone.

La recherche en endocrinologie Research in endocrinology

Le docteur Fortier joue un rôle de première importance dans les débuts de la neuroendocrinologie à l'échelle internationale : « Claude Fortier a éveillé chez les jeunes chercheurs la flamme de la recherche biomédicale dans plusieurs domaines, en plus de celui de l'endocrinologie qui est devenu aujourd'hui un secteur d'excellence de la recherche au Québec », reconnaît le docteur Maurice Normand, du Département de physiologie de l'Université Laval. C'est d'ailleurs l'un des objectifs du professeur, à son retour au Québec en 1960, de combler les sérieuses lacunes de la recherche biomédicale. Pour y arriver, il met sur pied le Laboratoire d'endocrinologie de la Faculté de médecine de l'Université Laval. Dr. Fortier plays a role in the beginnings of neuroendocrinology at the international level: "Claude Fortier aroused among young researchers flame of biomedical research in several areas, in addition to which is the Endocrinology become an area of research excellence in Quebec, "says Dr. Maurice Normand, Department of Physiology at Laval University. This is one of the objectives of the professor, upon his return to Quebec in 1960, to fill the serious gaps in biomedical research. To get there, he set up the Laboratory of Endocrinology, Faculty of Medicine at Laval University. Il assume également pendant vingt années la direction du Département de physiologie, poste occupé depuis 1990 par le docteur Fernand Labrie, fondateur et directeur actuel depuis 1982 du Centre de recherche du Centre hospitalier de l'Université Laval (CHUL) et un des plus brillants élèves de Claude Fortier. It is also for twenty years the Department of Physiology, position held since 1990 by Dr. Fernand Labrie, founder and current director since 1982 of the Research Center hospitalier de l'Université Laval (CHUL) and one of the brightest students Claude Fortier.

Le laboratoire de Claude Fortier, en raison de sa renommée grandissante, accueille rapidement des chercheurs de toutes origines. The laboratory of Claude Fortier, because of its reputation growing rapidly welcomes researchers from all backgrounds. Cette période est sans doute la plus fertile de la carrière du chercheur. This period is probably the most fertile of his career researcher. Ses travaux, tournés vers les grands problèmes de l'endocrinologie, fournissent de nouvelles interprétations des relations entre les systèmes nerveux central et endocrinien. His work, turned to the major problems of endocrinology, providing new interpretations of the relationship between central nervous and endocrine systems. Ces observations permettent d'élucider plusieurs aspects importants des mécanismes régulateurs des fonctions endocrines ainsi que des interactions entre ces glandes. These observations allow to clarify several important regulatory mechanisms of endocrine functions and the interactions between these glands. En outre, il démontre les influences hormonales sur le comportement et sur l'aptitude à l'apprentissage, attirant ainsi l'attention sur le plan mondial. In addition, it demonstrates the hormonal influences on behavior and learning ability, drawing attention to the world.

Passionné de recherche fondamentale, Claude Fortier s'intéresse avant tout à l'acquisition des connaissances. Passionate about research, Claude Fortier focus is the acquisition of knowledge. Les principes physiologiques fondamentaux qu'il dégage par l'expérimentation trouvent néanmoins plusieurs applications. The basic physiological principles that emerged through experimentation nevertheless several applications. Ainsi, certains aspects de ses travaux sur le rôle des protéines liantes du plasma, notamment la transcortine, dans les ajustements hormonaux, constituent des jalons non négligeables des récents progrès accomplis dans le traitement hormonal du cancer de la prostate. Thus, certain aspects of its work on the role of plasma protein binding, including transcortine in hormonal adjustments, are significant milestones of the recent progress made in the hormonal treatment of prostate cancer.

Le rôle de l'informatique dans le domaine The role of information technology
de la recherche biomédicale biomedical research

L'esprit inventif caractérisant Claude Fortier se révèle tout particulièrement au milieu des années 60, lorsqu'il introduit l'informatique au sein de la recherche biomédicale, notamment en physiologie moderne. The inventive spirit characterizing Claude Fortier is especially in the mid-60s, when introducing information technology in biomedical research, particularly in modern physiology. Il l'utilise non seulement pour l'analyse des données expérimentales, mais aussi pour l'élaboration de modèles mathématiques de la dynamique de la sécrétion de diverses hormones et pour la simulation de mécanismes de régulation endocrinienne. It is used not only for analyzing experimental data, but also for the development of mathematical models of the dynamics of secretion of various hormones and for the simulation of mechanisms of endocrine regulation. À l'époque, cette approche fait preuve d'une grande originalité. At the time, this approach showed great originality.

Scientifique engagé et profondément préoccupé par la place de la recherche dans la société, le docteur Fortier, parallèlement à ses travaux scientifiques, contribue aux politiques et aux orientations de la recherche médicale au pays par l'entremise des nombreuses responsabilités qu'il assume dans les plus grands organismes scientifiques provinciaux et nationaux. Scientist engaged and deeply concerned by the place of research in society, Dr. Fortier, along with his scientific work, to contribute to policies and guidelines of medical research in the country through the many responsibilities that it assumes in the largest provincial and national scientists. Au cours de toutes ces années d'activités scientifiques marquées au sceau du dynamisme et de l'émerveillement, il transmet à ses successeurs le goût de la recherche fondamentale. During all these years of scientific activities seal marked dynamism and wonder, he transmits to his successor a taste for basic research. Même après son décès survenu le 22 avril 1986, son influence se perpétue dans la reconnaissance internationale du secteur d'excellence qu'est devenue l'endocrinologie québécoise. Even after his death on 22 April 1986, his influence continues in the international recognition of excellence in the sector has become endocrinology Quebec.


Résumé de carrière Summary of career

1952 1952
Doctorat en médecine et chirurgie expérimentales de l'Université de Montréal Ph.D. in experimental medicine and surgery at the University of Montreal

1955-1960 1955-1960
Directeur du Laboratoire de neuroendocrinologie de l'Université de Baylor Director of the Laboratory of neuroendocrinology at the University of Baylor

1960-1984 1960-1984
Directeur du Laboratoire d'endocrinologie de l'Université Laval Director of the Laboratory of Endocrinology, University Laval

1970 1970
Compagnon de l'Ordre du Canada Companion of the Order of Canada

1972 1972
Prix scientifique du Québec Scientific Prize of Quebec

1979 1979
Prix Wightman de la Fondation Gairdner Wightman Award of the Gairdner Foundation

1980 1980
Prix Marie-Victorin Prix Marie-Victorin

1984 1984
Médaille McLaughlin de la Société royale du Canada McLaughlin Medal of the Royal Society of Canada

1985 1985
Prix Michel-Sarrazin du Club de recherche clinique du Québec Prix Michel-Sarrazin Club Clinical Research of Quebec

1998 1998
Intronisation au Temple de la renommée médicale canadienne, à titre posthume Induction into the Hall of Fame Canadian Medical, posthumously



Also, Fortier lived in Ste-Foy, Quebec near the end of his life. It says above that he was at Baylor University from 1955-1960. Baylor University is in Texas. If Jacques was born between these years then he was born in the United States.
 
And if you're looking for anything about him while at Baylor, I'll bet it's Baylor Med in Houston, as opposed to Baylor U in Waco.
 
Guys,
I was happy to read that a positive DNA test was done and gotten back in 2 weeks, in Texas, on the missing 17 yr. old teenager Bambi Lynn Dick, post #123...

which caused me to question again what is the hold-up with out Jane & Jock Doe's DNA??.:(
 
And if you're looking for anything about him while at Baylor, I'll bet it's Baylor Med in Houston, as opposed to Baylor U in Waco.

Baylor's had a teaching hospital in Dallas for as far back as I can remember, so it may be in Dallas. Plus, their endocrinology center is in Dallas.
 
Guys,
I was happy to read that a positive DNA test was done and gotten back in 2 weeks, in Texas, on the missing 17 yr. old teenager Bambi Lynn Dick, post #123...

which caused me to question again what is the hold-up with out Jane & Jock Doe's DNA??.:(


2 weeks huh? Isn't that simply astonishing? And here SC sent dna samples what, 2 years ago, and it isn't back yet?

I think someone's peeing on our legs, and trying to tell us it's raining.
 
Guys,
I was happy to read that a positive DNA test was done and gotten back in 2 weeks, in Texas, on the missing 17 yr. old teenager Bambi Lynn Dick, post #123...

which caused me to question again what is the hold-up with out Jane & Jock Doe's DNA??.:(

Mysterylover,

I am not familliar with Bambi's case- but I can share with you what the former Coroner told me. She stated that when there is DNA to COMPARE, the samples get bumped to the front of the line for analysis. So if in Bambi's case there was a Jane Doe and family members who came forward as a possible match, that would speed up the process.

Until someone comes forward that may be a possible relative to compare to the SC couple, the samples will sit on the back burner while urgent court cases and other priority cases with possible relatives go first. :(
 
There is a new (interim) editor at the Florence Morning News, James Bennett. He might be interested in running some investigative pieces about this. (I cannot contact him--professional conflict.)
 
http://www.wltx.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=50572

Someone named MaryBeth posted this news story link a couple of years ago. If you scroll down, you'll notice that someone named iceni69 left two comments and one of them is "I know who they are and who killed them and it didn't happen in 1976."

Is there anyway to see that person's other comments on that site? Some comment systems allow anyone to see a users comment history. At least we'd know when they became a member, how many comments they left, etc. If they registered and then left just those two comments then possibly they might know something.

However, IMO, that person knows nothing of the case. Just a silly troll looking for attention. Weird. I can't imagine someone with this kind of information would be silly enough to leave such comments knowing they can be traced via their IP address. Perhaps someone should contact this person and ask them a few questions.

It's a fact they were killed in 1976, true? They were found in 1976 and their bodies hadn't gone through significant decomposition. They found witnesses who heard the gunshots that killed them, correct?

** I just clicked on the user and sure enough those were the only two comments that user has left on the site. It would be interesting to know when they signed up for that account.
 
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