Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #6

[JasonFutchLakeCityFL]

So it appears that the DDP is currently working this case! How about that?

 

[T rex]

I agree! We take what we can get! Very good information! Considering he wasn’t really looked into (to the best of our knowledge anyway), I think he definitely should have been! I can’t think of an agency, in this day and age, who would allow someone in possession of a - THE - murder weapon to just go free? Or be able to regain possession of the firearm? I wish we knew for certain what, if anything, was done with this lead!

Maybe someday! Thanks for taking the time to research this case! It’s doesn’t go unnoticed!

•MMcG•

The murders were in '76, according to LE the gun was stolen in '74 and from every account I've ever heard including Verna Moore a brother of George's said he gave it to him for Christmas about 5 years prior to the crime. If these statements are correct then you don't have to be a math whiz to see it doesn't add up. Theres a 3 year discrepancy here and I can see only one possibility, the brother had to be lying. So why they didn't keep the pressure on the brother or on George for not being totally honest during the polygraph I don't know. And while I'm on the subject of what more they could have done regarding the murder weapon it wouldn't have hurt if they would have kept up with it but they didn't. They lost it, it's gone. No one seems to know where it's at.

 

[IndieCindy]

I do not know if the information was posted earlier, ignore if it has been.
I believe this couple is Lucie Gèlinas and Guy Carignan. The rings she wore were sold all over North and South America because they were very popular. They were so popular according to a Canada news paper source, during the time many of the Indian nations of the southeast wore plastic look alike turquoise and in Canada those rings were sold upwards to $600.00! Apparently in Canada if you wore that type of jewelry you were signaling you were well off. Same is said of the mans ring with the initials. Those initials could have been a family member who passed the ring on, or it could have been stolen, etc. A men’s pinky ring signaled a wealthy individual. Depending on the style, they also could signal other things, like mafia family. Certain mafia families had certain styles. As far as his father being a doctor, I read in one place his father wanted him to go into the “medical field.” But that doesn’t narrow it down. Was his dad a dentist therefore all the thousands of dollars of dental work? Or, if he simply said his dad was a doctor, did he mean medical, veterinarian or simply a PHD of science, math whatever... BUT, one thing that I keep coming back to is the ring and watch. The ring is a Linde Star, and the watch was the official watch of Astronauts or NASA. Those two things always struck me as worth noting together. But one thing that REALLY is interesting is that the day before the killings the IMSA “24 hours of Datona” race was going on & someone had put water in the gas of many of the race cars so that the race had to be postponed while racers flushed their tanks. Not all the racers got the tainted fuel. So Jock Doe has a shirt from one race in 75 and was not to far from where the Daytona race had ended about 24 hours before. The man that was in possession of the gun had a son around the couples age, he and another guy had died of drowning while out in a boat with another friend in 1973. And that area was know to have connections with drug smuggling both on the coast in boats and on the highway. As we know from John Paul Sr & John Paul Jr in that racing circuit, and their connections to drug smuggling and JP Sr’s connection to murders and drugs. Lot and lots of info to digest. And how do we know as some stories suggest, “they stepped from a van before being shot” where did this come from, & how could anyone possibly know that unless they witnessed it? And if they had a car with Washington or Oregon plates... where was it? Who has it? If they had a car why were they hitchhiking?? And I swear I read in even another forum that they were on a motorcycle. ?

 

[IndieCindy]

I colorized the Jane Doe photo & put it side by side with the 1973 photo of Lucie Gèlinas. and I added the black dots on Lucies face, to mimic moles to give me an idea of any similarities. Lucie already had moles on her face, but they are hard to make out. I mainly compared the mouth and nose and shape of eyes. I put the same hairstyle on each as well to see if it would Frame each face the same.

 

[Sherwood Park]

Guy Carignan.

Canada's Missing | Case details

Thanks for posting the information IndieCindy

 

[Silentium]

I colorized the Jane Doe photo & put it side by side with the 1973 photo of Lucie Gèlinas. and I added the black dots on Lucies face, to mimic moles to give me an idea of any similarities. Lucie already had moles on her face, but they are hard to make out. I mainly compared the mouth and nose and shape of eyes. I put the same hairstyle on each as well to see if it would Frame each face the same.
View attachment 200071

To me these two girls are not the same person...

 

[MadMcGoo]

I’ve searched high and low for a Bolova watch that matches the one found on Jock Doe. Similar, I’ve found. Exact, I have not. I did come across this though and it struck me as odd. I know the myth is that your watch stops when you die but that just isn’t in the case except under extreme trauma, etc. sometimes the first responders or medical examiner may manually stop a watch to mark a certain time, but what are the odds that two identical watch faces (identical and rare) display the exact same day of the week and numerical calendar day? Is it possible the photos being circulated are just an example of what the watch looked like? I can’t think of another logical explanation other than extreme coincidence, which I don’t personally believe in much.

Just thought I would share...
1- Jock Doe’s watch

2. Ebay auction listing (exact face)

3. Ebay auction listing (Roman numerals v. ||||•||•||•||||), Day/Date different than Jock’s)

4. Ebay auction listing (||•||•||•||) pattern varies from Jock’s and photo 2, as does Day/Date)

•MMcG•

 

[canteloupe]

I don’t greater access to library databases at the moment, but there seems to be a strong possibility that Guy could be the child of Dr. Jules Carignan (deceased) of Trois-Rivières.

Dr. Carignan, interestingly, was a dentist listed in the directory of the Canadian dental society members (see attached).

 

[Magnum P.E.]

I agree! We take what we can get! Very good information! Considering he wasn’t really looked into (to the best of our knowledge anyway), I think he definitely should have been! I can’t think of an agency, in this day and age, who would allow someone in possession of a - THE - murder weapon to just go free? Or be able to regain possession of the firearm? I wish we knew for certain what, if anything, was done with this lead!

Maybe someday! Thanks for taking the time to research this case! It’s doesn’t go unnoticed!

•MMcG•

Terrible police work or perhaps the guy was an informant.

 

[Silentium]

Terrible police work or perhaps the guy was an informant.

Or maybe he was protected by somebody...somebody very powerful and rich
And nobody will ever know why...

 

[T rex]

I do not know if the information was posted earlier, ignore if it has been.
I believe this couple is Lucie Gèlinas and Guy Carignan. The rings she wore were sold all over North and South America because they were very popular. They were so popular according to a Canada news paper source, during the time many of the Indian nations of the southeast wore plastic look alike turquoise and in Canada those rings were sold upwards to $600.00! Apparently in Canada if you wore that type of jewelry you were signaling you were well off. Same is said of the mans ring with the initials. Those initials could have been a family member who passed the ring on, or it could have been stolen, etc. A men’s pinky ring signaled a wealthy individual. Depending on the style, they also could signal other things, like mafia family. Certain mafia families had certain styles. As far as his father being a doctor, I read in one place his father wanted him to go into the “medical field.” But that doesn’t narrow it down. Was his dad a dentist therefore all the thousands of dollars of dental work? Or, if he simply said his dad was a doctor, did he mean medical, veterinarian or simply a PHD of science, math whatever... BUT, one thing that I keep coming back to is the ring and watch. The ring is a Linde Star, and the watch was the official watch of Astronauts or NASA. Those two things always struck me as worth noting together. But one thing that REALLY is interesting is that the day before the killings the IMSA “24 hours of Datona” race was going on & someone had put water in the gas of many of the race cars so that the race had to be postponed while racers flushed their tanks. Not all the racers got the tainted fuel. So Jock Doe has a shirt from one race in 75 and was not to far from where the Daytona race had ended about 24 hours before. The man that was in possession of the gun had a son around the couples age, he and another guy had died of drowning while out in a boat with another friend in 1973. And that area was know to have connections with drug smuggling both on the coast in boats and on the highway. As we know from John Paul Sr & John Paul Jr in that racing circuit, and their connections to drug smuggling and JP Sr’s connection to murders and drugs. Lot and lots of info to digest. And how do we know as some stories suggest, “they stepped from a van before being shot” where did this come from, & how could anyone possibly know that unless they witnessed it? And if they had a car with Washington or Oregon plates... where was it? Who has it? If they had a car why were they hitchhiking?? And I swear I read in even another forum that they were on a motorcycle. ?

Do you have a link that you can share about the death of Henry's son? I have looked for some info on it in the past but never could come up with much. TIA

 

[T rex]

According to this site it seems George Henry did have another child. He went by the same name and was born in 1946.

Lonnie George Henry (1918-1982) • FamilySearch

 

[Sweetluv]

Ok, so somebody break this down for me please. This guy was pulled over possessing a gun ..which was used in a double homicide...and let go because? Ever questioned again?

 

[Laughing]

Ok, so somebody break this down for me please. This guy was pulled over possessing a gun ..which was used in a double homicide...and let go because? Ever questioned again?

That's the $64,000 Question!

There is speculation upthread that the convicted felon found with the stolen, altered firearm must be/have been a police informant.

Yes, this is a state where convicted felons are not allowed to own or possess firearms....

JMHO YMMV LRR

 

[BlackCloud]

Ok, so somebody break this down for me please. This guy was pulled over possessing a gun ..which was used in a double homicide...and let go because? Ever questioned again?

Because he was protected by someone who was rich and powerful.
He himself was a total loser but for unknown reasons somebody helped him....

 

[T rex]

I am no genealogist for sure and I could be wrong and maybe someone with more knowledge on this subject will come along and give me some insight. I have suspected this for awhile and now I'm fairly certain that not only did George Henry's family and extended family marry into the Lumbee people but that he himself was very likely of Lumbee descent. Of all the names that I have come across that pertain to both him and them, many are common names and are used amongst all people. However there are a few such as Deese and Grooms that to the best of my knowledge originated with the Lumbee people and are used almost exclusively by them especially in that part of the country. Ironically the most common Lumbee surname by far is Locklear.
I thought it would be worth taking a look at some pictures (the Elmer W. Hunt collection) covering the 1976 Lumbee homecoming but haven't come across anything.


List of Lumbee surnames | The Lumbee Indians

 

[TedMac]

Ok, so somebody break this down for me please. This guy was pulled over possessing a gun ..which was used in a double homicide...and let go because? Ever questioned again?

He was stopped for DUI and arrested. Not sure how long after the murders, but I want to say it was at least two years. The search of his vehicle subsequent to the arrest turned up the gun. The gun was tested and found to be the murder weapon. He was questioned and from what I gather questioned rather extensively. He claimed he got the gun from a relative as a gift. The serial # had been filed off of it making it untraceable. Both Henry and the relative denied any involvement in the murders. LE was never able to break either of their stories, so they both were released.

Some have suggested that they may have been police informants and LE was covering up for them. As a former police officer I can attest that informants are not excused from murders. It doesn't work that way. Police Officers have "helped them out" of petty crimes and testified on their behalf at sentencing for other offenses, but NEVER covered up a murder for them.

MOO, I tend to believe that the killer may have been either Henry or the relative (or both), but they were able to avoid prosecution due to sloppy police work. Plus, they lost the gun later and now have no murder weapon.

 

[Magnum P.E.]

Some have suggested that they may have been police informants and LE was covering up for them. As a former police officer I can attest that informants are not excused from murders.

MOO, I tend to believe that the killer may have been either Henry or the relative (or both), but they were able to avoid prosecution due to sloppy police work. Plus, they lost the gun later and now have no murder weapon.

I live in the small town I grew up in. Everyone is related by blood or marriage (and sometimes both, it’s Appalachia). You would be surprised what can be and is covered up, if someone is connected. Even in a few cases, murder. I bet if you went down there to Sumter County and talked to people of the right age, they know who did it. Very few secrets exist in that kind of place.

Small towns aren’t Mayberry, but the police do outwardly seem to resemble Barney Fife on occasion. Look into things too carefully and you might lose your job, or worse.
If I was driving around with a weapon with altered or removed serial numbers, I’d expect to do some time. Henry didn’t, and they lost the murder weapon to boot. Do you REALLY believe that LE could be THAT inept?

 

[TedMac]

I understand small town politics, I have lived around small towns all of my life. But, I really do not believe this is some grand cover-up. In 40+ years, if someone in LE knew who did it, it would have come to light-one way or another. Also, if the victims were someone the locals knew, their ID would have been uncovered. They were not from the area and perhaps not even from this country.

Possessing a firearm with no serial number, was not a crime in 1976. Yes, as I mentioned in my post, LE did lose the gun. It is certainly not the first piece of evidence that has gone missing from LE's possession. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. Not sure inept is the correct word-more like lack of experience in handling cases of this magnitude. If LE was protecting someone (Henry or the relative), they would have never tested the gun to begin with to see if it was the murder weapon. If they knew this already and wanted to cover up the crime, they would have tossed it away after the DUI arrest so no test could be done.

 

[T rex]

I understand small town politics, I have lived around small towns all of my life. But, I really do not believe this is some grand cover-up. In 40+ years, if someone in LE knew who did it, it would have come to light-one way or another. Also, if the victims were someone the locals knew, their ID would have been uncovered. They were not from the area and perhaps not even from this country.

Possessing a firearm with no serial number, was not a crime in 1976. Yes, as I mentioned in my post, LE did lose the gun. It is certainly not the first piece of evidence that has gone missing from LE's possession. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. Not sure inept is the correct word-more like lack of experience in handling cases of this magnitude. If LE was protecting someone (Henry or the relative), they would have never tested the gun to begin with to see if it was the murder weapon. If they knew this already and wanted to cover up the crime, they would have tossed it away after the DUI arrest so no test could be done.

It's most likely if there was a cover up in this case it would be on the family level. However, entertaining the possibility of something more, if LE were involved in a cover up I'm certain it wouldn't be to help out George Henry but would have been the other way around. It would have been him helping them to divert attention and forever blur up this case or maybe they just didn't like him anyway and saw an opportunity and just outright set him up. Anyway it's most likely just some members of this family doing the covering up. Just about all unsolved murders are a cover up to some degree.

You could contribute the fact that LE lost the murder weapon in this case to their inexperience but didn't they lose the male victims teeth? They gave them to some school to use for teaching purposes and when they went back to get them the school had already disposed of them. Now that would be pretty inept not to mention disrespectful.

By the way, I don't know how this got started up about Henry being a convicted felon. This is something new to me that I have just recently heard. LE said that he had only some minor brushes with the law. George Henry was not a convicted felon.