Identified! Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #7 Pam Buckley & James P Freund

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ntt1 said:
Looks like the Oracle 4 admixture reports are being posted on the spreadsheet, which may provide some further clues on their ancestries.
Click to expand...

That will be interesting...providing the percentages aligned with the pie chart.

Also approximation based on population. It is going to be a confusing set of numbers. From what I've sampled on genealogy sites, the most common recommendation with Oracle 4 is to look at, "Using 2 populations approximation:"

For example, with Allegan County John Doe that would be 50% Norwegian + 50% West Scottish

O4-Allegan.jpg

You can hit the + on that link to enlarge the text, then drag to need

It looks like the Oracle 4 inclusion is time consuming. Only four of them included so far, using alphabetical order. So it might be a while before the Sumter County Does are updated.

Sumter County is actually a bit oddly shaped, looking like a spout on the northeast side. That's where these murders occurred, near the end of the spout. They were very close to becoming either the Lee County Does or Florence County Does. Both earlier in the alphabet. This is seldom reported. Or needed.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
That will be interesting...providing the percentages aligned with the pie chart.

Also approximation based on population. It is going to be a confusing set of numbers. From what I've sampled on genealogy sites, the most common recommendation with Oracle 4 is to look at, "Using 2 populations approximation:"

For example, with Allegan County John Doe that would be 50% Norwegian + 50% West Scottish

O4-Allegan.jpg

You can hit the + on that link to enlarge the text, then drag to need

It looks like the Oracle 4 inclusion is time consuming. Only four of them included so far, using alphabetical order. So it might be a while before the Sumter County Does are updated.

Sumter County is actually a bit oddly shaped, looking like a spout on the northeast side. That's where these murders occurred, near the end of the spout. They were very close to becoming either the Lee County Does or Florence County Does. Both earlier in the alphabet. This is seldom reported. Or needed.
Click to expand...


A portion of Sumter County was used in the formation of Lee County in 1902. It is an odd shaped county but if you look at the others around it many of them are also. Mostly rivers for boundaries and not a lot of surveyed lines.
I guess there's some reason for why Sumter County wanted to retain this part of the county that you refer to as a spout. It couldn't have been for the Interstate frontage because that wasn't even thought of at that time. Maybe it was to keep the Lynches River or maybe that's just the way it turned out, I dont know.
The only way I can think any of this would matter in this case is if Law Enforcement were to be actually involved in the crime itself and then the choosing of the crime scene and the jurisdiction it falls under could mean everything. Other than that it was just a remote place at an even more remote time of the week. Late Sunday night in this part of the country in the 1970s. Someone could probably have committed these murders right in town on main street and got away with it.
 
DNA_Sleuth said:
Sorry it took so long to get the Oracle 4 results posted - but Sumter County Jane & John Doe are there now. Will work on getting some more up today. Have to fit this in to working on cases! :)
O4-SumterJohn.jpg
and O4-SumterJane.jpg
Click to expand...

You're a rockstar, Joan! Thank you so much for doing this, we know it's a lot of extra work on top of everything else! Great to see you posting here :)

Does anyone know how to interpret these results? I have no experience with this so I don't even want to attempt!
 
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leilarose68 said:
You're a rockstar, Joan! Thank you so much for doing this, we know it's a lot of extra work on top of everything else! Great to see you posting here :)

Does anyone know how to interpret these results? I have no experience with this so I don't even want to attempt!
Click to expand...
Scroll down on this page and it addresses the Oracle results. Genealogical Musings: Finally! A Gedmatch Admixture Guide! (and Thank You - I do criminal work in addition to the DDP stuff, so staying busy!)
 
Here's an interesting comment someone made on reddit about this data:

"There’s a number of French nationals who went missing in Argentina in 1976 (here), some have been found, others not.

1976 also fits with Spain transitioning from Franco. If they went missing any time before, during or after they could have been escaping something or someone.

I lean more to them being French given the results (Southwestern France borders with Catalunya, so they really could be from either) simply because people thought they were French Canadian and they seemed to have a story going along with that. Given these results this is what I would lean more towards.

I’m French living in Barcelona, though, so I’ll try to look into local resources to see if I can find anything more that could help, I feel like there’s some good leads in these results."
 
Ozoner said:
Can you explain the numbers next to the different possibilities in the Oracle results? Are they odds?
Click to expand...

I've done a little bit of research (disregard the previous comment I posted from someone; I think they're wrong now) and I THINK the results are ranked #1-#20 from the most related population to the bottom, least close, so the closer populations show lower numbers. The lower the number, the better the prediction, with the 3 and 4 populations approximation too. So looking at their listed populations along with the 3 and 4 approximations, it looks like Jane and Jock have significant British Isles ancestry. Danish and Spanish/Cataluna are high on Jock's list and Austrian/Dutch/German for Jane.

From what I've been reading, Oracle often is misleading or is more confusing than helpful; my personal results have me most closely associated with countries I don't have any known ancestral tie to.

Someone please weigh in if I got this wrong or if you have a better understanding than I do!
 
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T rex said:
A portion of Sumter County was used in the formation of Lee County in 1902. It is an odd shaped county but if you look at the others around it many of them are also. Mostly rivers for boundaries and not a lot of surveyed lines.
I guess there's some reason for why Sumter County wanted to retain this part of the county that you refer to as a spout. It couldn't have been for the Interstate frontage because that wasn't even thought of at that time. Maybe it was to keep the Lynches River or maybe that's just the way it turned out, I dont know.
The only way I can think any of this would matter in this case is if Law Enforcement were to be actually involved in the crime itself and then the choosing of the crime scene and the jurisdiction it falls under could mean everything. Other than that it was just a remote place at an even more remote time of the week. Late Sunday night in this part of the country in the 1970s. Someone could probably have committed these murders right in town on main street and got away with it.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the historical info. I still like to use a road atlas when traveling, along with GPS. Last year when visiting the site I looked at the atlas and noted the unique shape of Sumter County, and how close the murder site was to the edge of the county.

It doesn't mean anything other than the case might have unfolded differently if another county was in charge. Could have been better or worse. Sumter County certainly did a great job in displaying the bodies in see-through caskets, and with the burial. In terms of the investigation itself, that's another matter, like paying more attention to the campground tip and getting those records before the fire destroyed them.

Actually I'm not sure if it was mostly a county investigation, or state, or combo.
 
leilarose68 said:
Here's an interesting comment someone made on reddit about this data:

"There’s a number of French nationals who went missing in Argentina in 1976 (here), some have been found, others not.

1976 also fits with Spain transitioning from Franco. If they went missing any time before, during or after they could have been escaping something or someone.

I lean more to them being French given the results (Southwestern France borders with Catalunya, so they really could be from either) simply because people thought they were French Canadian and they seemed to have a story going along with that. Given these results this is what I would lean more towards.

I’m French living in Barcelona, though, so I’ll try to look into local resources to see if I can find anything more that could help, I feel like there’s some good leads in these results."
Click to expand...

I saw that comment last night in the Grateful Doe subreddit. Sigh. I thought it was unfortunate the thread quickly took off in that direction.

IMO, it is still too much devotion to the mysterious angle of a couple fleeing due to political reasons or pressure, instead of the far more likely scenario that they were traveling amidst normalcy, until targeted at random and killed for property reasons, like their vehicle.

I was hoping that reddit thread would quickly attract genealogy experts who could interpret the Oracle 4 numbers.
 
leilarose68 said:
I've done a little bit of research (disregard the previous comment I posted from someone; I think they're wrong now) and I THINK the results are ranked #1-#20 from the most related population to the bottom, least close, so the closer populations show lower numbers. The lower the number, the better the prediction, with the 3 and 4 populations approximation too. So looking at their listed populations along with the 3 and 4 approximations, it looks like Jane and Jock have significant British Isles ancestry. Danish and Spanish/Cataluna are high on Jock's list and Austrian/Dutch/German for Jane.

From what I've been reading, Oracle often is misleading or is more confusing than helpful; my personal results have me most closely associated with countries I don't have any known ancestral tie to.

Someone please weigh in if I got this wrong or if you have a better understanding than I do!
Click to expand...

Oh sorry. I posted a reply to your earlier comment before seeing this one. I'm glad you now devalue the reddit comment.

British Isles ancestry stood out from the pie chart. I mentioned that several weeks ago, that when I looked at genealogy sites with posters listing their percentages and their ancestry, the ones closely resembling the Sumter Does mixture were saying they had either British Isles or German ancestry, if not both. It was very clear cut and the sample size large enough I felt comfortable mentioning it here.

From a personal standpoint I'm happy the Sumter Does have so much Irish in their background. That matches me. I have a last name that is very prominent in Ireland and Scotland. In fact, I visited a small crossroads town in Ireland that is named after my last name. It was basically a road sign and a church and not high population. But when I greeted locals and gave them my name it was like I was a minor celebrity.

I have not done Oracle 4. But Ancestry keeps updating my results and the Irish percentage rises all the time. It was 48% when I did the kit several years ago. Now it is reporting 64%.
 
DNA_Sleuth said:
Sorry it took so long to get the Oracle 4 results posted - but Sumter County Jane & John Doe are there now. Will work on getting some more up today. Have to fit this in to working on cases! :)
O4-SumterJohn.jpg
and O4-SumterJane.jpg
Click to expand...

That wasn't long at all. Great job. With all that work to do I was anticipating 2 months wait.
 
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