Identified! Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #7 Pam Buckley & James P Freund

[branmuffin]

There are different francophone communities in Canada. The Acadians who settled around Nova Scotia and New Brunswick may not be as well represented in the databases as the so-called French Canadians in Quebec and elsewhere, for instance. There are 7.2 million French speakers in Canada, but only 500,000 of them are Acadians (about 7%).

This is a list of Acadian surnames beginning with F:

Fabre
Fardel
Faucheux
Ferel
Fillaut
Fizel
Flan
Fleury
Foght
Follet
Fontaine
Forant
Forest
Foret
Foucault
Fouet
Fougère
Fournel
Fournier
Fourre
Franc
France
François
Franquet
Frecaut
Fretel
Fricourt
Froiquingont
Fromant
Fumoleau
Fuselier

(From Acadian Surnames )

There are 31 names on that list; I wonder whether one of them belongs to Jacques.

I know quite a few French Canadians and some beginning with F are Forget, Fortier, Fleury, Filion, Frechette.

 

[branmuffin]

Oh sorry. I posted a reply to your earlier comment before seeing this one. I'm glad you now devalue the reddit comment.

British Isles ancestry stood out from the pie chart. I mentioned that several weeks ago, that when I looked at genealogy sites with posters listing their percentages and their ancestry, the ones closely resembling the Sumter Does mixture were saying they had either British Isles or German ancestry, if not both. It was very clear cut and the sample size large enough I felt comfortable mentioning it here.

From a personal standpoint I'm happy the Sumter Does have so much Irish in their background. That matches me. I have a last name that is very prominent in Ireland and Scotland. In fact, I visited a small crossroads town in Ireland that is named after my last name. It was basically a road sign and a church and not high population. But when I greeted locals and gave them my name it was like I was a minor celebrity.

I have not done Oracle 4. But Ancestry keeps updating my results and the Irish percentage rises all the time. It was 48% when I did the kit several years ago. Now it is reporting 64%.

Considering the amount of North Atlantic heritage it's quite possible that the male's name really was Jock. Not an Americanized form of Jacques but just Jock. Jock is the diminutive for John in Scotland. Lots of Scots in Ontario and Nova Scotia.

ETA I should start reading the thread backwards! Just noticed that this has already been mentioned. Sorry, dotr.

 

[branmuffin]

Their skin tones are what would steer me away from full Irish or Scottish ancestry. (There are many people of Scottish descent in Nova Scotia and probably many francophones with mixed Scottish and French Acadian ancestry.)

Canadian here, but born in England. I'm half British and Irish. My dad had black hair and olive skin and blue eyes. Lots of Irish people have that colouring. My sister did the Ancestry thing and according to her we are more Irish than the Irish.

 

[folieadeuxnola]

**Just Following**

 

[Susikatze]

It is if you are willing to ship. I did my FtDna from Germany, ordered the kit there and mailed it back. Same for Austria.
But its less common, it is true.

If they have German/Austrian DNA it might be difficult to find relatives since doing home-based DNA testing is/was not available in Germany, last I checked though it appears that Germany is now on the list of countries that Ancestry sells kits too. I have asked on the Ancestry message boards about my lack of German matches, though my great-grandfather was from there, and I was told not to expect many.

 

[Susikatze]

The Oracle results are just a game with statistics. I would not put too much meaning into them.
The ethnicity estimate in the piechart shows mainly Northern European/Orcadian and some Middle European. Profiles of persons of Iberian Mediterranean or Latino descent look different.

Actually, my Oracle gives me some wild combos of Italian, Castile and Yemenite Jewish. I am neither. I am Austrian and Southern German with a dash of Ashkenazi Jewish. Oracle is a nice game but not significant.

According to their Oracle reports, Jock and Jane both have genetic similarities with Spanish populations (albeit lower on their population lists): Jane with Catalonia, which borders southwestern France, and Jock with Castilla and Cantabria, Spain, so that would explain their tanner skin tones. Spanish on Oracle can also point to Italian ancestry

 

[leilarose68]

The Oracle results are just a game with statistics. I would not put too much meaning into them.
The ethnicity estimate in the piechart shows mainly Northern European/Orcadian and some Middle European. Profiles of persons of Iberian Mediterranean or Latino descent look different.

Actually, my Oracle gives me some wild combos of Italian, Castile and Yemenite Jewish. I am neither. I am Austrian and Southern German with a dash of Ashkenazi Jewish. Oracle is a nice game but not significant.

We already had this conversation a couple pages back... I said that I don't think they're primarily of Spanish or Italian descent but they may have a SMALL amount of Spanish or Italian ancestry.

 

[Susikatze]

Sorry, somehow my phone was acting up and showed me old postings as new... thats why i sound like a broken record. I apologize.

 

[leilarose68]

Sorry, somehow my phone was acting up and showed me old postings as new... thats why i sound like a broken record. I apologize.

No worries! Totally understand

 

[branmuffin]

It is if you are willing to ship. I did my FtDna from Germany, ordered the kit there and mailed it back. Same for Austria.
But its less common, it is true.

I don't think Europeans living in Europe are as gung ho finding their roots like those in North America are. It truly is a melting pot. I'd go as far as saying that Europeans in South America like Chile and more specifically Argentina can be fairly confident that their genetic heritage is all that they think it is, much more than Spaniards living in Europe. And if they are not, they don't want to know.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...entines/a56baf09-dfc5-4c1f-a072-6698dec458b3/

 

[Ozoner]

The next update is 3 days away. Maybe one of these days an even closer match will show up. I'm not sure how fast the database is growing.
DNA Doe Project Spreadsheet

 

[Melt71]

The next update is 3 days away. Maybe one of these days an even closer match will show up. I'm not sure how fast the database is growing.
DNA Doe Project Spreadsheet

Well we never really have a true picture because only the GED Match stats get published and DDP also uses FTDNA. So it could look like nothing is happening on the spreadsheet when in fact that's not the case.

 

[djanga]

Jock Doe has a new match over 30cM with a family tree, it is a small step towards his identification.

 

[Ozoner]

Jock Doe has a new match over 30cM with a family tree, it is a small step towards his identification.

I saw that, but I wasn't sure how to interpret it. Do you think that DDP asked one of Jock's known matches to have more family members submit profiles, or do you think that it was just a piece of good luck?

 

[djanga]

I saw that, but I wasn't sure how to interpret it. Do you think that DDP asked one of Jock's known matches to have more family members submit profiles, or do you think that it was just a piece of good luck?

I think that more likely it is a new match. On the DDP website in FAQ section there is an answer to the question "What if a Doe’s DNA-cousins don’t have family trees?": "If we cannot find a family tree for a match, we build our own. We rare contact matches or their family members".
https://dnadoeproject.org/faq/

 

[Awsi Dooger]

I didn't realize Ancestry listed cMs. I finally saw those numbers on my matches, and let's just say I had even greater appreciation for DNA Doe Project and similar firms.

Gad, did it take me a long time to scroll down to matches in that range, the 70s and 50s range like the Sumter County Does. I had no idea who any of them were. The surnames were not familiar.

I have no idea how the researchers get from so far away, to solve.

However, I was pleased on the top end. I know many relatives a generation older than myself who live in the New England area, and my parents introduced me to during family visits decades ago. My parents have passed away but I continue to visit those relatives whenever I'm in the area. For decades I assumed they were not close relatives. I don't know anyone else by those names. Then it turned out they were near the top of the cM list. I was shocked.

 

[CJH]

It takes a while for them to get matches. They get more after each update. Last week when I checked, Jane had top matches in the 70s (CMs), which is not amazing but a nice start and he had lower, I believe only in 30s or 40s. It will likely go up the longer they are in. Time is the key.

Side note, I checked my own Gedmatch and aside from my parents I only score matches in the 30s, which is roughly a common ancestor about 3-4 generations back. If I was an UID, it would be tricky to identify me via Gedmatch.

It may point to them not being American, despite them being of Anglo and Middle European descent, (the Canadian theory pops up again in my mind), as US Americans are overrepresented in genealogy databases vs all other countries. If you are not US American, you will always have less matches.

My ancestry is mostly colonial American back to the 1600s on both sides with a few 19th century Irish and English immigrant ancestors; I have 22 matches on GEDmatch above 40cM and maybe 100 or so above 30cM (for comparison I have 3700 matches at 20cM or above on Ancestry).

 

[Andreee]

My ancestry is mostly colonial American back to the 1600s on both sides with a few 19th century Irish and English immigrant ancestors; I have 22 matches on GEDmatch above 40cM and maybe 100 or so above 30cM (for comparison I have 3700 matches at 20cM or above on Ancestry).

As a Canadian, I have been doing a basic search of our missing persons sites, and so far I haven't seen any couple that fills the bill of these UIDs. They could be listed separately or together of course. The reference to the male of the couple possibly having a dad as a doctor in eastern Canada is interesting, and you would think make it easier to track him down by an investigator but who knows!

 

[Andreee]

P.S. I was 'at it' again today with going through my country of Canada's missing persons sites looking for any missing persons who could be a potential match to this mystery couple. I did a pretty thorough job of it, and eliminated all of the few possibilities I came across. If that private investigator checked out all the doctors in just Montreal from that year, I wonder if he checked out all the doctors in the whole of Quebec lol. As for the one who he contacted, I can't imagine that doctor lying and saying he didn't have a son at all, even if the son didn't follow in his footsteps in becoming a doctor. At any rate, I'm beginning to think this couple has flown under the radar for some reason and that they may even be from overseas. I can see why investigators are having trouble id'ing them, and I assume they have gone through all of the missing persons reports in the U.S. to look for clues from that time.

 

[Ozoner]

P.S. I was 'at it' again today with going through my country of Canada's missing persons sites looking for any missing persons who could be a potential match to this mystery couple. I did a pretty thorough job of it, and eliminated all of the few possibilities I came across. If that private investigator checked out all the doctors in just Montreal from that year, I wonder if he checked out all the doctors in the whole of Quebec lol. As for the one who he contacted, I can't imagine that doctor lying and saying he didn't have a son at all, even if the son didn't follow in his footsteps in becoming a doctor. At any rate, I'm beginning to think this couple has flown under the radar for some reason and that they may even be from overseas. I can see why investigators are having trouble id'ing them, and I assume they have gone through all of the missing persons reports in the U.S. to look for clues from that time.

Maybe the DDP person could comment on whether Jock and Jane's matches appear to be primarily from the US, Canada, or elsewhere.