Identified! Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - Pamela Buckley & James Freund #9

[worldwatcher]

Just posting it in here, incase the exact cs location, pops up again, and me chasing the rabbit hole to find, where I read it.

"McDaniel said. The Sumter County Does are in fact John and Jane Doe, found murdered 400 meters off of I-95 in a pine-tree riddled spot of Sumter County, South Carolina,*
sumter county does

 

[worm]

The mention of total darkness gave me an idea, and I went and checked. If I read the tables accurately, August 9, 1976 was a full moon. Some people have good night sight, too.

Good info. A rural place like that under a full moon would be bright. The shooter probably had no problem with aim, tho I still don’t know what the distance was they were shot at?

 

[wary]

Good info. A rural place like that under a full moon would be bright. The shooter probably had no problem with aim, tho I still don’t know what the distance was they were shot at?

When I skimmed through the earlier threads, I think that ‘close range’ was what was reported. No mention of distances.

 

[Betty P]

I think it may point to someone with LE training. The military did not use revolvers nearly as much as LE - semi-automatics were used more often, although revolvers were issue to MPs. The Border Patrol also used revolvers. Revolvers were used by thousands of police departments nationwide, and training procedures emphasized awareness of the number of shots fired. Many departments trained their personnel to use 3 shots to the chest, AKA center mass.

Since a revolver retains the empty brass cases, reloading can be more of a challenge, and counting shots is critical. In order to reload, the shooter must eject the empty cases before inserting new cartridges. Police generally used a device known as a speed loader to load new cartridges in the cylinder after ejecting the empty cases. This process is generally not as fast as using a semi-automatic with a magazine. There could have been empty cases on the ground if the shooter reloaded; this is something we don’t know.

Most police departments switched to semi-automatics in the 1980’s. They replaced revolvers due to the advantage of having more ammunition available without reloading as often. Instead of having a revolver with 6 shots, the shooter would have 8 or more shots depending on the pistol make and model.

Shooting well in darkness points to marksmanship skills of exceptional ability, with both specialized training and continual practice. With regard to training, hunting would not be comparable, because legal hunting is usually during daylight hours. Although headlights may have illuminated the murder scene, visibility still would not be similar to daylight.

Many years ago, I had the opportunity to take a police revolver class, although I was not LE, so I have some familiarity with police revolver training.

I think one scenario might involve rogue LE pulling over the victims.

Thanks so much. This is very helpful.

ETA: Another scenario I've considered is the couple driving through late at night and have car trouble. Someone comes by and offers to give them a ride, then things go wrong.

If that happened and their vehicle was abandoned somewhere in the area, it wouldn't have been linked to them. It also could have been disposed of. Any large bodies of water in the area? Rivers, lakes, etc?

 

[Warwick1991]

Good info. A rural place like that under a full moon would be bright. The shooter probably had no problem with aim, tho I still don’t know what the distance was they were shot at?

I’ve never found anything that explains how far away the shooter was from the victims. LE must know if the distance was very close.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Just posting it in here, incase the exact cs location, pops up again, and me chasing the rabbit hole to find, where I read it.

"McDaniel said. The Sumter County Does are in fact John and Jane Doe, found murdered 400 meters off of I-95 in a pine-tree riddled spot of Sumter County, South Carolina,*
sumter county does

Wow, that was only a quarter of a mile off the highway.

 

[worldwatcher]

Here's a link-back to the original post that @Awsi Dooger has copied in above in case anyone wants to visit the original.

Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #3

The more I read about the place, they were shot, the more convinced, I am..that it was someone, who knew the area well.
Lonnie was arrested in Latta, SC, that's about 43 miles from where James and Pam were found..
That's odd, was it, his first time, pulled over for DUI?

So, if I am correct, Lonnie had a lot of siblings, but they are all deceased?

 

[Betty P]

Wow, that was only a quarter of a mile off the highway.

As info, this information was discussed a few pages back. The distance is "as the crow flies". Getting off at the exit and making the necessary turns, driving back to the crime scene is over a mile, IIRC.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

As info, this information was discussed a few pages back. The distance is "as the crow flies". Getting off at the exit and making the necessary turns, driving back to the crime scene is over a mile, IIRC.

Oh, sorry. Thank you for the clarification. I thought it was driving distance.

 

[worldwatcher]

Oh, sorry. Thank you for the clarification. I thought it was driving distance.

Me too

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Since the truck driver was stopped for the DUI four months later when they found the gun that killed the couple, I think an alibi at that time would be hard to check unless records demonstrated that he was far away from the crime scene. This has also been discussed but I can't see how they can prove he was at the hospital with his wife at the time or if his brother had possession of the gun then.

 

[Betty P]

Oh, sorry. Thank you for the clarification. I thought it was driving distance.

No problem Awsi Dooger has all the maps and info about the crime scene. He even did a YouTube video of the spot. But, technically, its around that distance, but you would have to park the vehicle, climb over the shoulder of the interstate highway, climb down an embankment, probably cross over a drainage ditch, then walk through brush and weeds, then across a dirt road and open field to get to the spot at the far end of the dirt road.

Maybe we can find and pin the Google Map of the crime scene somewhere.

 

[Fukiyama]

"McDaniel said. The Sumter County Does are in fact John and Jane Doe, found murdered 400 meters off of I-95 in a pine-tree riddled spot of Sumter County, South Carolina,*
sumter county does

If they were found 400 meters from the interstate, they would have had to have been much farther down Locklair Road. A straight line from the interstate to where the line of trees first meets Locklair Road today is just over 650 meters.

Google Maps

Left click where you want to measure from and choose "measure distance" and then right click on the spot you want to measure to. The distance is in the white box.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

If they were found 400 meters from the interstate, they would have had to have been much farther down Locklair Road. A straight line from the interstate to where the line of trees first meets Locklair Road today is just over 650 meters.

Google Maps

Left click where you want to measure from and choose "measure distance" and then right click on the spot you want to measure to. The distance is in the white box.

I see at least 3 ways for the couple to arrive at the crime scene. There are certainly more. It just further complicates things. I had thought that they were just off an exit in a direct path to where they were discovered.

 

[worldwatcher]

If they were found 400 meters from the interstate, they would have had to have been much farther down Locklair Road. A straight line from the interstate to where the line of trees first meets Locklair Road today is just over 650 meters.

Google Maps

Left click where you want to measure from and choose "measure distance" and then right click on the spot you want to measure to. The distance is in the white box.

Ok, thanks for the map and explanation, I was always, really, really.. bad at reading roadmaps, inventing, navigation was truly a blessing for me!!


If I am not mistaken, lonnie was the oldest of the family, he had 2 sons, one still born, perhaps?
One of his brothers, 3 yrs younger, died in 1964, so can't be him.
One in 1996, 7 yrs younger.
The rest of his (2) brothers,died in this century.
Didn't he say, he got the gun as a Christmas present from his brother?
-Wich brother?
Maybe the POIS were connected with one of his brothers, lonnie had a truck, was a truck driver, maybe others as well, had access to his truck??
So, putting a gun under your seat, points to easy access of a gun, incase needed, when the plan goes wrong/different?
Just some talking thoughts, about the gun ending up in his truck....

 

[Vern]

If they were found 400 meters from the interstate, they would have had to have been much farther down Locklair Road. A straight line from the interstate to where the line of trees first meets Locklair Road today is just over 650 meters.

Google Maps

Left click where you want to measure from and choose "measure distance" and then right click on the spot you want to measure to. The distance is in the white box.

If you go to the historical photos (Aerial View- 1983), about 1/2 way through the long straight stretch of Locklair there is a place where there are trees on both sides of the road. It kind of resembles a giant capital "T". Zooming in, there are trees on both sides of the road. These are cleared now and look like they are all fields. They weren't back then. When I measure, I'm getting 375.3 metres from the road between those trees to the interstate.

The triangle shaped place along the highway (on the left side) where the billboard currently is also exists in that historical photo. Seems to me that if the crime scene was indeed between these two spots of trees on either side of the roadway (that don't exist now), the angle is such that a photograph taken from the Old St John Church side toward the highway may indeed have had the billboard showing in the background - especially so if the wooded area was thinner back then.

Historic Aerials: Viewer

On google maps today, the spot looks like a large line of trees coming up from the bottom of the screen to the 1/2 way mark on that long, straight stretch of Locklair. Measure from there to the highway and billboard can be seen to the left along the highway too.

 

[mp_1989]

I think it was a general change in fashion, not necessarily means he got more "free spirited". If I look at my dads (born in 1948) pictures when he was out of highschool in tie and suit and very formal and then compare them to his pictures from the mid 1970s, it is very similar. He was never in any military and remained a fairly upper middle class guy. Longer hair and more casual clothing was pretty normal for men mid 70's.
I dont think it has any specific meaning. Just fashion.

My dad was also born in 1948 and I can say the exact same about him
One thing he said about hitchiking in the US was that he rarely did it in the 70s as greyhounds were more convenient and there were some dodgy things going on /people about

 

[onceuponadecember]

Honestly, I feel like we should let the SCSO handle the killer part. They might have evidence we don’t know about that could solve this case. Only time will tell.

 

[Vern]

Honestly, I feel like we should let the SCSO handle the killer part. They might have evidence we don’t know about that could solve this case. Only time will tell.

But, of course they do.

They always know more than we site members here do.
Same as every other case on here really. If we didn't speculate, what would we have to do here then? Everyone is just trying to lend a hand.

 

[worm]

The mention of total darkness gave me an idea, and I went and checked. If I read the tables accurately, August 9, 1976 was a full moon. Some people have good night sight, too.

Good info. A rural place like that under a full moon would be bright. The shooter probably had no problem with aim, tho I still don’t know what the distance was they were shot at?

Ok, thanks for the map and explanation, I was always, really, really.. bad at reading roadmaps, inventing, navigation was truly a blessing for me!!


If I am not mistaken, lonnie was the oldest of the family, he had 2 sons, one still born, perhaps?
One of his brothers, 3 yrs younger, died in 1964, so can't be him.
One in 1996, 7 yrs younger.
The rest of his (2) brothers,died in this century.
Didn't he say, he got the gun as a Christmas present from his brother?
-Wich brother?
Maybe the POIS were connected with one of his brothers, lonnie had a truck, was a truck driver, maybe others as well, had access to his truck??
So, putting a gun under your seat, points to easy access of a gun, incase needed, when the plan goes wrong/different?
Just some talking thoughts, about the gun ending up in his truck....

It begins and ends with that gun I think. How did it get to the murder scene and kill this couple? And return to his car? I don’t see how they found the murder weapon locally and didn’t figure this out. I’m not saying that I have any better answers, it just seems like something slipped by with this evidence.