Identified! Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - Pamela Buckley & James P Freund #8

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
Mbt said:
To clear up some baseball questions:

I played baseball pretty much every day in the summer growing up, in a league from the ages of 6-14, plus a year in high school. I can say from personal experience that:

1. baseball is not a contact sport. Contact sports are where bodies run into each other forcefully, like ice hockey, rugby, and American football
2. playing baseball is in no way likely to cause scaring on your back or shoulders
3. the only plausible source of head trauma is getting hit in the head with a pitch when you're batting. However, Little League mandated the use of batting helmets in the 1950s so James probably grew up wearing them in Little League and in high school ball. Further, getting hit in the head is a fairly rare event, so getting hit repeatedly is possible but rather improbable.

Here's a snippet from here: Searching for the History of the Batting Helmet
Some other facts found in the March 27, 1958, article in the Chicago Tribune:

“Present Little League helmets, which still will be permitted but which – it is hoped – will be supplanted by the new and safer one, are of two types: The cap-helmet used in the big leagues and a wrap-around leather helmet which protects the temples and back of the head but not the top.

The Little League ... pioneered the use of helmets in 1949 and since that time has had only about 100 concussions yearly even tho some half-million youngsters play each season.”

Also, most men don't play much fast-pitch ball after high school so if he did happen to have baseball-related trauma it would have been in high school or before -- unless he played in the army. Still, like I said, concussions aren't an issue in baseball.

Football could cause repeated head injuries but again would be from when he was in high school. Is there any evidence that he played football or that he even had head trauma?
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying the whole baseball issue!

No, we don’t have the slightest bit of evidence that he ever had head trauma of any kind.
 
branmuffin said:
When it really came home to me just how much sleuthing missing persons and UID's is a niche interest was the other day, when Othram said they'd never heard of this particular case. It kind of blew my mind.
Click to expand...
Yes me too, I was stunned by that admission, but then again I would imagine they are very busy and are focussed more on the scientific side of things than the history of things.
 
Preach! And we get so little information. And if LE uses DNA, it is only MtDNA like 20 years ago...because of DNA protection law. no wonder it is not effective.

Triss said:
You're right. There's always so few details in European cases (not only Dutch) that it's often easier to solve a US case even though we're so far away from North America. I wish the EU had a public database like NamUs.
Click to expand...
 
From the evidence I dont think James had a mental illness... he divorced his wife for indignities (that can mean anything, also merely fighting and not getting along), not vice versa.
He married right after the Army and highschool and ive seen early marriages often get sour.
I wonder what the last contact the exwife had was about?
 
Susikatze said:
From the evidence I dont think James had a mental illness... he divorced his wife for indignities (that can mean anything, also merely fighting and not getting along), not vice versa.
He married right after the Army and highschool and ive seen early marriages often get sour.
I wonder what the last contact the exwife had was about?
Click to expand...

I’m not an expert on old-time divorce law, but I’d guess that ‘indignities’ was similar to ‘mental cruelty’—a way of claiming ‘fault’ because the law demanded it, but there wasn’t anything that really was a serious fault.

Someone suggested that the Dec 25th last call was a Christmas call to his daughter. Sounds plausible.
 
ajac71 said:
That puzzled me too....I asume he means that the 'Kill' shot was the head shot, but there were two 'disabling' shots to the torso first.
Click to expand...
Yes, it was mentioned in a podcast, the word "overkill"
So, according to my memory, the gunshots were heard, late at night/early in the morning? Feel free to correct me, in anyway. But if that's the case, they would have start travelling at nights?
And both were, clean and seemed to have showered, a few hours before they were shot.
 
worldwatcher said:
Yes, it was mentioned in a podcast, the word "overkill"
So, according to my memory, the gunshots were heard, late at night/early in the morning? Feel free to correct me, in anyway. But if that's the case, they would have start travelling at nights?
And both were, clean and seemed to have showered, a few hours before they were shot.
Click to expand...
The witness reported that he had heard the gunshots in the early morning. I found this on Doenetwork:
"On August 9, 1976, a man living in the sticks between Sumter and Florence heard a car scuttling down a narrow frontage road connecting Interstate 95 to S.C. 341. Someone climbed out. Gunshots echoed in the early morning, then the car raced back onto the highway".

Also I find this to be interesting:

"The autopsy revealed the pair had eaten fruit or ice cream with fruit not long before they died so investigators were certain the two must have bought the food from a local eatery or store. Someone remembered seeing a couple matching the dead couple's descriptions at a fruit stand that was located off the Florence Highway, but the person couldn't say whether the man and woman were with someone else or if they were riding in a car".

I have an impression that they could have had a fruit for breakfast and did not go too far from the place where they supposedly bought fruits/ice-cream (Florence Highway).
 
djanga said:
The witness reported that he had heard the gunshots in the early morning. I found this on Doenetwork:
"On August 9, 1976, a man living in the sticks between Sumter and Florence heard a car scuttling down a narrow frontage road connecting Interstate 95 to S.C. 341. Someone climbed out. Gunshots echoed in the early morning, then the car raced back onto the highway".

Also I find this to be interesting:

"The autopsy revealed the pair had eaten fruit or ice cream with fruit not long before they died so investigators were certain the two must have bought the food from a local eatery or store. Someone remembered seeing a couple matching the dead couple's descriptions at a fruit stand that was located off the Florence Highway, but the person couldn't say whether the man and woman were with someone else or if they were riding in a car".

I have an impression that they could have had a fruit for breakfast and did not go too far from the place where they supposedly bought fruits/ice-cream (Florence Highway).
Click to expand...

Did I imagine it, or were the gunshots supposedly heard at around 1 am?
 
I truly believe that they were not hitchhiking. PB was not dressed for it and she and her clothing were too clean. To me that means that had access to change of clothing. I like the idea that JPF was getting away from life and going cross country in a car or van and met PB and they took off together. I wish we knew if when she left if she had taken a lot of clothing with her.
 
I also think they were on their knees and facing the road, when they were probably shot in the back. That would cause them to hunch forward and their chin towards their chests. Then they were shot in the back of the head, which would be why PB’s exit wound is in the throat. Then when they fell back, shot in the chest to make sure they were dead. I believe the murderer than could have checked their clothing to see if they had cash or anything on them and took off.
 
wary said:
Did I imagine it, or were the gunshots supposedly heard at around 1 am?
Click to expand...
I could not find anywhere the exact time when the gunshots were heard, but I have found this on wikipedia (with a link to the newspaper of that time):
"At 6:20 a.m., a trucker found the bodies and contacted an employee at a nearby store. He in turn, contacted the authorities"
Yes, probably, you are right..
 
Kikalina said:
I truly believe that they were not hitchhiking. PB was not dressed for it and she and her clothing were too clean. To me that means that had access to change of clothing. I like the idea that JPF was getting away from life and going cross country in a car or van and met PB and they took off together. I wish we knew if when she left if she had taken a lot of clothing with her.
Click to expand...
Going back to the 70s,do you think ads were running in magazines, att, for travels together?

I did a quick search on hitchhiking. "Hitchhikers's guide to a free ride"
Came up, with an EU article about it
Hitchhiker's guide to a free ride
 
worldwatcher said:
Going back to the 70s,do you think ads were running in magazines, att, for travels together?

I did a quick search on hitchhiking. "Hitchhikers's guide to a free ride"
Came up, with an EU article about it
Hitchhiker's guide to a free ride
Click to expand...
I’m going to assume there were probably local newspaper ads with that kind of stuff. Also, bulletin boards, I was thinking! People used to post looking for a ride or whatnot, all the time
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is DeKalb County John Doe (2022)?

Members online

... and 68 more.
Total: 2,559 (members: 69, guests: 2,490)

Online statistics

Members online
69
Guests online
2,490
Total visitors
2,559
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
603,989
Messages
18,166,223
Members
231,905
Latest member
kristens5487
Back
Top