Names of Jurors just Released

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JB on HLN...Trashing.."lazy reporters"...Working on his Media career?...Maybe he should think more before he opens his mouth...Commenting on respect for jurors..JB, how about respect for our legal system?...He says hopefully no one is that "stupid" to go after any jurors to do harm...(shaking head..slapping forehead)..Might use better english?
 
The only way any of these jurors could have become anyone's darling was if they had done the right thing and stuck with their convictions (if they even had any) and NOT folded during deliberations and if like the first female juror who spoke following the decision (maybe #3?) if she felt the way she said she did STICK TO HER FEELINGS and hung the damn jury. Not that I would want the state to pay for it again, but possibly with more introduced by the prosecution, if they accurately would have portrayed the whole family as the lying shape shifters they are instead of painting them as grieving while all the family wanted was their ICA home and do better damage control at combatting Jose's lies and inuendo .... SHE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR CAYLEE AND SHE DIED IN HER CARE.... Like George I can do the math, the jury should have been able to as well.

In my opinion they were fools, I can hardly stomach people referring to them as educated. Even if they were all graduates, it is obvious this was not a deep thinking bunch of people?

Kathy in TX
 
LinX, I really respect how intelligent, logical, and informed your posts are on this subject.

I'm pretty sure that you and I are in agreement that openness is good, that checks on every kind of power and the powerful are always necessary, and that the jury system is fundamental to our democracy.


As far as ensuring juries are chosen fairly. Maybe I am just being dense today (always a possibility), but I don't see how releasing the names of jurors after a verdict is reached either contributes to or hinders this objective.

We know who they are in all but actual name. We see the jury selection process. We know what questions are asked. We know relevant demographics about the jurors. What exactly, is the power of knowing individuals' names? How, exactly, are we to hold jurors we don't agree with accountable?

Since public opinion is never unanimous, there will always be a sizable number of peeps who don't agree with any particular verdict. Theoretically:

The dissenters get names. Then what? The trial is over, a verdict reached, and the defendant can't be tried again, or found guilty again, as the case may be. If the jurors had wanted to speak, they could. If they don't want to, how is it anyone's right to force them into speaking? On what legal grounds could you force an unwilling juror to speak? In practical terms, how exactly could you make an unwilling juror speak?

And for those who won't and can't be forced- then what? For those who capitulate and are forced into speaking, how could anything said possibly be taken at face value? Who would get to judge whether or not what the jurors said was true or accurate?
 
The jury is instructed to only rule on evidence presented in the courtroom. This is made very clear. One, if a jury member knew the defendant and/or had ties to the state, it would have been ferreted out in voir dire. The attorneys get the jury info sheets ahead of time in cases like that and run them through search engines. That ferrets out a lot.

Also, the jurors are stating in front of the other potential jurors that they have no ties. It would look incredibly fishy to the other jurors that this person lied in voir dire, but is now claiming outside knowledge. I doubt they would go along with it. Then you would also have to have this person angling to become the foreperson, and then somehow trying to exert their opinion.

Juries are not this complicated.

The murder trial I observed last month involved a foster parent accused of killing their foster child. The trial lasted three weeks. The jury returned a verdict after 2.5 hours, even though there was a ton of evidence. On its face, it looks like they didn't pay attention or wanted to leave. However, they took copious notes and chose to speak with the attorneys for the state and defense post-verdict. They gave thoughtful, articulate answers describing the deliberation process. This was in a more rural area, with some jurors that people would label as uneducated. They all thought through their opinions while discussing their verdict. Just because one person was emphatic on a point did not mean that they immediately flipped.

While I understand the need to keep juries open, the fact is, most do their job and do it well. Jury tampering and juror misconduct happens much less than people think it does, in my opinion. I'm torn on the issue of releasing names, but I don't think that releasing names really helps "prove" tampering or misconduct.

Has there ever been an instance where the release of juror names has lead to the discovery of tampering or misconduct? Or is this all conjecture?

Interesting discussion.
Trials are held in open court, open to the public. Any reporter attending open court, who is worth their salt, can easily find the names of these jurors. A sequestered jury, makes discovering their names more difficult. The media claims to have known who the jurors were in this case, and when the judge sealed the names, this only prevented the media from going public with those names. The media already knew who they were, and most likely did a little hounding in an effort to get an interview. When the media wants to know something, they are pretty good at finding it out. KC's whereabouts have been sealed, does anyone think its true that only her lawyers and the probation officer know her location, or does the media know, but are unable to tell because the judge said her location will remain unknown?

This being the age of information, does add a new wrinkle to the release of the jurors names. With the internet, and all the information on the internet about each of us, perhaps the laws surrounding juries in this new age need to be looked at a little more closely. Just as the dt in this case used modern technology in the courtroom, modern technology can be used by the criminal element to wreak havoc upon an individuals life via the internet. The predators on the internet are abundant. It is a given that the need for a jury is to reach a verdict of whether or not someone is guilty of a crime. So, jurors are deciding the fate of criminals. Many criminals are now tech savvy. The laws governing our fine country, are lagging way behind in regards to the internet, and the power of the internet. Identity theft, online predators, personal information, video piracy, audio piracy, etc. etc. Some of our laws need to enter the new millenium, at the very least, in regards to new technology.

Obviously, when a case is high profile like this one, and especially when the verdict is as controversial as this one, it makes us think hard about our current laws, and legal system. This case is an exception to the rule on two fronts, one it is high profile (there are not really very many high profile cases) and two the verdict was extremely controversial (most high profile cases end with an expected verdict). Our system is fine, but is and has always been a work in progress. Cases like this one, show where work needs to be done. This case will be referred to many, many times, because of its uniqueness of allowing in, the hair with apparent decomp, the Dr. Vass evidence, and the use of gadgets by the DT in the courtroom, plus the Caylee laws that are being considered around the country.

I think whatever laws we currently have in place in regards to jurors are working just fine, but I do think lawmakers need to consider the affect the internet has on the court system, before, during and after a trial, and keep those things in mind when drafting new laws.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.
 
PS

JB's public thank yous to the P-12 are revolting. Also, obtuse, clueless and classless. Also, probably the next to last person the P-12 want their names further associated with, other than OCA. Keep it up, JB. :0
 
LinX, I really respect how intelligent, logical, and informed your posts are on this subject.

I'm pretty sure that you and I are in agreement that openness is good, that checks on every kind of power and the powerful are always necessary, and that the jury system is fundamental to our democracy.


As far as ensuring juries are chosen fairly. Maybe I am just being dense today (always a possibility), but I don't see how releasing the names of jurors after a verdict is reached either contributes to or hinders this objective.

We know who they are in all but actual name. We see the jury selection process. We know what questions are asked. We know relevant demographics about the jurors. What exactly, is the power of knowing individuals' names? How, exactly, are we to hold jurors we don't agree with accountable?

Since public opinion is never unanimous, there will always be a sizable number of peeps who don't agree with any particular verdict. Theoretically:

The dissenters get names. Then what? The trial is over, a verdict reached, and the defendant can't be tried again, or found guilty again, as the case may be. If the jurors had wanted to speak, they could. If they don't want to, how is it anyone's right to force them into speaking? On what legal grounds could you force an unwilling juror to speak? In practical terms, how exactly could you make an unwilling juror speak?

And for those who won't and can't be forced- then what? For those who capitulate and are forced into speaking, how could anything said possibly be taken at face value? Who would get to judge whether or not what the jurors said was true or accurate?

Because this is high profile the media is after the names. Normally this would not happen and the names released would be just public record you would have to look them up yourself.

If it were proven that a jury was somehow tampered with and it involved fraud a defendant could be retried, I believe. Not saying that happened in this case. The person who could do the most harm is the defendant, if they chose to do so because their attorney knows who you are. Not the public at large. Remember KC looking at documents during the trial. Who is to say she wasn't looking at the names and descriptions of the juror's. Who can say whether she picked a juror she knew was a single male and decided to flirt with him. KC is on video making eye contact with someone in the vicinity of the jury box as this was caught on video. It's impossible to tell who was her target but it wasn't KC's DT because they were right there when she did it.

The only privacy you have is in your own home. Once you go out and sit on a public forum or jury the people who are paying you have a right to know who you are. If you have an auto accident and it is printed in the paper, your name and residential town are usually listed in the article. You have no right to privacy only the right to say "no comment." jmo

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AIVWg0-nHI&feature=player_embedded#"]Former Anthony judge breaks silence - YouTube[/ame]! At the one minute mark you can see her make eye contact with someone and her body language tells the whole story. lol
 
LinX, I really respect how intelligent, logical, and informed your posts are on this subject.

I'm pretty sure that you and I are in agreement that openness is good, that checks on every kind of power and the powerful are always necessary, and that the jury system is fundamental to our democracy.


As far as ensuring juries are chosen fairly. Maybe I am just being dense today (always a possibility), but I don't see how releasing the names of jurors after a verdict is reached either contributes to or hinders this objective.

We know who they are in all but actual name. We see the jury selection process. We know what questions are asked. We know relevant demographics about the jurors. What exactly, is the power of knowing individuals' names? How, exactly, are we to hold jurors we don't agree with accountable?

Since public opinion is never unanimous, there will always be a sizable number of peeps who don't agree with any particular verdict. Theoretically:

The dissenters get names. Then what? The trial is over, a verdict reached, and the defendant can't be tried again, or found guilty again, as the case may be. If the jurors had wanted to speak, they could. If they don't want to, how is it anyone's right to force them into speaking? On what legal grounds could you force an unwilling juror to speak? In practical terms, how exactly could you make an unwilling juror speak?

And for those who won't and can't be forced- then what? For those who capitulate and are forced into speaking, how could anything said possibly be taken at face value? Who would get to judge whether or not what the jurors said was true or accurate?

Darn - I hate it when I have to step away from a "gentle debate" and come back to find it has stretched way ahead of where I left off.

And I can see some of my thoughts I wasn't clear about. My reasons for wanting to know how the jurors arrived at their verdict isn't only because I don't like the verdict. It is what it is. Nonetheless - I'd like to know what steps this jury took -what evidence they accepted and what they disregarded to arrive at this verdict. I'd want to know the same thing if the verdict had been Guilty. LinTx has already covered monitoring the legal system very well in her posts much better than I could.

For me, the release of the actual names is a separate issue. I don't care what their names are or their addresses either, however those who say don't release them seem to be saying it's a privacy issue. And it is the media that is at fault for publicly releasing those names. In any other case these names are on a document sitting in a legal file somewhere. The media blew these ups and made them very "public".

And I'm saying there is no such thing as privacy. What if there wasn't a law to release names - what if it wasn't an issue. They just weren't. Like when you buy something in a store, the store doesn't announce anywhere that you bought something - the same thing for juror names.

If that was the case, how long do you really think it would take the media to find out who those jurors were and where they lived? Forty-eight hours max? Because that's the alternative. People hounding you, digging around to see who you are and where you live - ferreting you out for whatever reason. Would that be better?

I'd like to hear what these jurors have to say. Because IMO there is no privacy if someone wants to find you, and sealing names isn't going to help at all. Nobody is saying these jurors should be forced to speak - but I don't understand what the big deal is. How they speak can be controlled and like any citizen they can ask for protection if they really feel this is necessary. But OCA's trial isn't any gansta scene and there is no one from a gang lurking in the shadows. Why not have your say and get it over with? IMO they should have done it the day the verdict was read and not bought into the "hysteria" of the day. Nobody would care by now.
 
lambChop- If it were proven that a jury was somehow tampered with and it involved fraud a defendant could be retried, I believe.

Actually, no, not if the trial is already over and a verdict reached. A judge can call a mistrial during a trial for jury tampering, but not afterwards.


LG- I don't see how you can separate the issue of juror names being released from wanting to know the whats and whys of jury deliberation. The idea of keeping jury deliberations "secret" goes back to the 1200's, to the very beginnings of western jury systems. There isn't any mechanism in place and never has been to make public the whys and whats of how a verdict is reached. The only peeps who can answer that question are the jurors, after the fact.

The question being discussed is- what if they don't want to? Should their names be revealed to somehow make them 'fess up? Just because privacy is dead doesn't mean we should give the media or whoever else wants it free reign to pursue peeps who are NOT in the public eye as a matter of choice, and who are NOT acting as private individuals in their role as jury.


I don't see what the big deal is either in having jurors explain after a verdict, typically, anyway. In OCA's case I think it is no mystery at all why they fled the scene post-verdict, and for an entirely different reason, why they are fleeing again.

Peace.
 
lambChop- If it were proven that a jury was somehow tampered with and it involved fraud a defendant could be retried, I believe.

Actually, no, not if the trial is already over and a verdict reached. A judge can call a mistrial during a trial for jury tampering, but not afterwards.


LG- I don't see how you can separate the issue of juror names being released from wanting to know the whats and whys of jury deliberation. The idea of keeping jury deliberations "secret" goes back to the 1200's, to the very beginnings of western jury systems. There isn't any mechanism in place and never has been to make public the whys and whats of how a verdict is reached. The only peeps who can answer that question are the jurors, after the fact.

The question being discussed is- what if they don't want to? Should their names be revealed to somehow make them 'fess up? Just because privacy is dead doesn't mean we should give the media or whoever else wants it free reign to pursue peeps who are NOT in the public eye as a matter of choice, and who are NOT acting as private individuals in their role as jury.


I don't see what the big deal is either in having jurors explain after a verdict, typically, anyway. In OCA's case I think it is no mystery at all why they fled the scene post-verdict, and for an entirely different reason, why they are fleeing again.

Peace.

A jury verdict can be overturned if they are found "guilty" when witness tampering has been established, but not if you are found "not guilty" that is correct.

Just going out in public we have no control over privacy today. We could be caught on camera and it would be on the 6 o'clock news and we have no control over it whatsoever. Jurors have the option of saying "no comment" same as any person who suddenly comes to the attention of the media. It would have been better for them to have given their press conference and gotten it over with. They'd all be enjoying a nice normal life by now. lol

I think if the press want to try and call them for an interview and their number is listed it is okay. If the person says no, not interested or they don't return their call that should be it. Media needs to drop it. But it is pretty quiet so I think the jurors are safe wherever they are. jmo
 
I followed this case from the beginning, but I only read the doc dumps, I did not watch all of the interviews with JB, etc regarding the case. I was aware that the sentiment on here was that he was totally full of it and sleazy, but I had not seen much of him at all until the trial.

During the trial, I felt that JB did a good job of covering up his sleaze and seeming friendly and genuine and not like a complete moron like he seems to appear in his media appearances. The jury had no reason not to trust him, like we did.

I respectfully disagree. I am one who joined this forum shortly before the trial. I did not read or see interviews very often, though I knew of, and was very interested in the case - and my first opinion of JB WAS sleaze. He had a few moments where I felt he was professional, but mostly I saw a great deal of unprofessional behavior and licentiousness. I don't know much about courtroom procedure, and many times I had no facts or actual reasons for my feelings: yet my feelings were a great deal of contempt for him. When my stomach knotted at his antics, it was repulsion, a visceral sense that what I was watching was not proper or professional.

It could be my gut feeling was wrong. I will give you that. But he gave me the heebie-jeebies, and that is the best descriptor I can think of! I have considered I may feel that way, in part, from his association with criminals. Perhaps some of my feelings are rooted there, but I get the same queasy feeling when seeing JB alone on TV.

From having lived a long time, I have noticed that many lawyers get the same kind of God-complex as many doctors. JB is rather inexperienced to have developed that syndrome, but it appears he suffers from it anyway.
 
lambChop- If it were proven that a jury was somehow tampered with and it involved fraud a defendant could be retried, I believe.

Actually, no, not if the trial is already over and a verdict reached. A judge can call a mistrial during a trial for jury tampering, but not afterwards.


LG- I don't see how you can separate the issue of juror names being released from wanting to know the whats and whys of jury deliberation. The idea of keeping jury deliberations "secret" goes back to the 1200's, to the very beginnings of western jury systems. There isn't any mechanism in place and never has been to make public the whys and whats of how a verdict is reached. The only peeps who can answer that question are the jurors, after the fact.

The question being discussed is- what if they don't want to? Should their names be revealed to somehow make them 'fess up? Just because privacy is dead doesn't mean we should give the media or whoever else wants it free reign to pursue peeps who are NOT in the public eye as a matter of choice, and who are NOT acting as private individuals in their role as jury.


I don't see what the big deal is either in having jurors explain after a verdict, typically, anyway. In OCA's case I think it is no mystery at all why they fled the scene post-verdict, and for an entirely different reason, why they are fleeing again.

Peace.

BBM

Well aren't those two separate points? Names being released is one point and making a post verdict statement is another point - right?

Not sure what one has to do with the other.

Point one was - releasing juror names and yet you also state you agree privacy is dead. Right? If this is indeed a jury by her peers - and the public doesn't know and will never know who those peers are - how does one monitor the jury selection process? How do you or I or Joe Public know that the rules of jury selection and processes are even being followed?

By releasing names the system simply cuts dead in it's path any determination to find out who they are? Hasn't our interest in the "name release" been because we didn't know who they were?

Second point - post verdict statement. I would like to hear from them. I don't think I would go as far as making laws that jurors must make verbal or written statements about why they voted the way they did - but geez - is there no accountability at all anymore? These are supposed to be mature adults! Nobody is saying get into a public forum and get debated until you draw your last breath! Just make a statement and be done with it.

I never thought any of these jurors were at personal risk - I'd go so far as to say it's complete bunk - and in cases like this I think it's being really immature to whine and complain and go into hiding over some emails and telephone calls.

What do I think will result in the "Big Reveal"? Absolutely nothing. Nothing at all.
 
Ya know how a DT can ask to interview jurors after a verdict (Bob Ward's attorney comes to mind)...can the prosecution do the same thing?
Just thinking...
 
PS

JB's public thank yous to the P-12 are revolting. Also, obtuse, clueless and classless. Also, probably the next to last person the P-12 want their names further associated with, other than OCA. Keep it up, JB. :0

:gthanks:
 
I too want to see them in a "dateline" type roundtable discussion. I find them fascinating in some way - like a newly discovered species :)
 
LG- I don't see how you can separate the issue of juror names being released from wanting to know the whats and whys of jury deliberation. The idea of keeping jury deliberations "secret" goes back to the 1200's, to the very beginnings of western jury systems. There isn't any mechanism in place and never has been to make public the whys and whats of how a verdict is reached. The only peeps who can answer that question are the jurors, after the fact.
Not LG but while I agree the deliberations were private, the jury also sat in front of the people of the village during the trial, sometimes in a pub where alcohol was being served and the public's reactions to testimony could be very loud and certainly well known by the jury. The village also knew who those jurors were, and where they went when the trial was over. After the trial those jurors could stay home and not answer the door, or they could go back to the pub and say why they made the decisions they made. This jury has it relatively easy when you think about it...

I don't see anyone advocating a forced reply by any of the jury members. Guess I'll clarify that if I saw that, I'd be one of the first ones to insist on that juror's right to not be harassed. Actually, I think the only person they might need to worry about is JB trying to hug them & steal their camera time should they decide to talk to the media, but they certainly have a right to remain silent if they choose.
 
http://www.wtsp.com/news/article/217267/19/Casey-Anthony-attorney-Jose-Baez-speaks-exclusively-to-10-News

"They made their decision," he said, speaking in front of his office in Kissimmee. "Let it go already."

Baez was on his way to Harvard Law School on Tuesday night to speak with students. Before he left, he was asked if he read reports online about his client. He joked, "The only thing I pay attention to online is news about the Seminoles and the Yankees."

And, as far as the safety of the jurors, he said, "I wish I could buy all of them pit bulls.

I'm no expert in linguistics, but his comment "let it go already" seems to indicate some frustration and desire to move past this case. JMO


Don't get me started on Harvard!!!
 
http://www.wtsp.com/news/article/217267/19/Casey-Anthony-attorney-Jose-Baez-speaks-exclusively-to-10-News

"They made their decision," he said, speaking in front of his office in Kissimmee. "Let it go already."

Baez was on his way to Harvard Law School on Tuesday night to speak with students. Before he left, he was asked if he read reports online about his client. He joked, "The only thing I pay attention to online is news about the Seminoles and the Yankees."

And, as far as the safety of the jurors, he said, "I wish I could buy all of them pit bulls.

I'm no expert in linguistics, but his comment "let it go already" seems to indicate some frustration and desire to move past this case. JMO


Don't get me started on Harvard!!!

Er...um.....Ah - Jose? I don't think the Florida Bar is prepared to quite "let it go already" just yet......:waitasec:
 
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