Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #12

[raisincharlie]

oops. hit the button too soon.
meant to reply.

most runners that I know do wear running socks. I get blisters if I run without socks.
I don't know of any women runners who wear panties with their running shorts. Running shorts have built in liners.
Almost every photo that I have seen of Nancy dressed in her running clothes, she also has on a cap.
I find it odd that BC described NC running shoes by color. Most runners would describe by brand. IE, Nike running shoes, New Balance running shoes, etc.
Also, I cannot recall a pair of running shoes that are all 1 color. Most are white with accent colors. Blue and red are the most used accent colors on white shoes.
I don't picture NC wearing a scarf or anything around her neck or a sweatband. She seems to be more of the "cap" type to keep the sun off of her face.

Sometimes I believe LE will leave a description rather bland so that when witnesses do come forward, if they can identify colors and brands such as you mention, it may well prove the veracity of their sighting of the individual in question. They may get 20 people come forward because of the lack of detail but if one person can identify correctly something found with the body, it tends to rule out those that cannot and add definition to locations.

 

[runnermomof5]

Sometimes I believe LE will leave a description rather bland so that when witnesses do come forward, if they can identify colors and brands such as you mention, it may well prove the veracity of their sighting of the individual in question. They may get 20 people come forward because of the lack of detail but if one person can identify correctly something found with the body, it tends to rule out those that cannot and add definition to locations.

GOOD POINT!
But I have a question. Would they leave out parts of the description that BC gave initially, during the search, before her body was found? Like, if BC had said the running shoes were , for example, Nike Air Max, with a blue swoosh, would LE have just released the information as "blue running shoes" . Or do they do purposely leave out information only AFTER the body has been discovered and it has been determined that a crime has occurred?
Sorry, it is early yet and I may not be posing my question in a way that you can understand what I am asking. LOL
In any case, I do see your point as to why LE would leave out details .

 

[raisincharlie]

GOOD POINT!
But I have a question. Would they leave out parts of the description that BC gave initially, during the search, before her body was found? Like, if BC had said the running shoes were , for example, Nike Air Max, with a blue swoosh, would LE have just released the information as "blue running shoes" . Or do they do purposely leave out information only AFTER the body has been discovered and it has been determined that a crime has occurred?
Sorry, it is early yet and I may not be posing my question in a way that you can understand what I am asking. LOL
In any case, I do see your point as to why LE would leave out details .

You are getting your question across just fine

For the searches it is possible the color on Nancy's t shirt and shorts would have been made known but extreme detail such as Nike Air Max most likely not. The face would have been the most important thing for them to get out,, known routes, and a general description of clothing.

 

[Tink56]

I'm also wondering if forensic tests can evaluate Nancy's alcohol levels. Obviously there would be a difference 6 hours after her last drink (if she was drinking prior to her departure Friday evening) and a TOD closer to midnight.

I wonder if the body was discovered in time to give accurate readings for blood alcohol content or ???? whatever other tissue tests could be performed?????

i think nancy came back from the party and they got in a fight and he killed her.
she may have changed into clothes to sleep in, those may have been running shorts.

if brad killed her and dressed her to look like she had been running, it would be important to know how she normally would dress to go running.

did she wear a special sports bra?
socks w/ her shoes?
were the blue shoes her normal running shoes?
how were they tied? from the side she would have tied them if leaning over? or were they tied from the front as if brad had been facimg her?

what kind of panties (if any) was she wearing?

did she have on deodorant, sunscreen?
did she have an iPod, walkman?

did she have wrist or ankle weights?
sweatbands on wrist or head?
scarf around neck for sweat?
hat?
sunglasses?

water bottle?

 

[runnermomof5]

you are getting your question across just fine

for the searches it is possible the color on nancy's t shirt and shorts would have been made known but extreme detail such as nike air max most likely not. The face would have been the most important thing for them to get out,, known routes, and a general description of clothing.

thanks!
I get it now.

 

[fran]

All that is needed for VoIP is an internet connection and an appropriate device. I'm sure the Coopers had some type of high speed internet access that would allow both VoIP and telecommuting. There would be a record though of whether VoIP was being used as their home phone because the phone company has to know where to send your telephone calls. You can't just plug a VoIP device into your internet connection and have it start receiving calls on your home number.

LOL, yeah, I KNOW the phone company would have a record. That was my point.

LE already KNOWS the answer.

OH, and just because he said it in his affidavit, doesn't make it truth.

ie....Ironman training. He lied in the affidavit about it and even directed anyone reading it to his personal web page that SHOWED the discrepancy. Truly, how stoopid can you get?:bang:

JMHO
fran

 

[raisincharlie]

thanks!
I get it now.

I'm curious, when running and you meet another runner maybe going the other way - how many of those things do you notice ?

 

[fran]

Again you speak so condescending but really you are not familiar with the subject at the same time. Do you know what VPN is? The VIOP phone is not a necessity for him to work from home. AGAIN.... He can connect a VOIP phone but how can he do it with out her knowing ..the Cisco VOIP phone you have to make the calls on that phone.... so unless she was blind and reached around till she felt a phone ...she will know its a Cisco phone by the big Cisco logo's all over it.... I explained its not like other VIOP like Vonage where you hook up regular phones...

Hun, we know you think he did it.

Oh, gosh! Am I that transparent?

fran

PS....I know this may sound far-fetched to most people (especially to those in THE BUSINESS). But just because you have to use a special phone for VoIP or whatever, doesn't mean that this is still not what MAY have happened. Seriously, these guys are good at their disception and the abused are quite often either very guillible or they choose to ignore the signs that the other person is lying and go along with whatever, telling themselves they're imagining it and it is as it SHOULD be....does that make sense?

ie Nancy may have KNOWN with her brain she was being duped by her hubby(ie using the VoIP type phone), but she chose NOT to believe it with her heart. That's how situations like this can get out of control and that is exactly what the abuser is counting on. FULL, COMPLETE, ABSOLUTE CONTROL....imho,fran

 

[runnermomof5]

I'm curious, when running and you meet another runner maybe going the other way - how many of those things do you notice ?

If I am approaching a runner coming from the opposite direction, I smile and we exchange greetings. Good morning. It's hot out. That sort of thing.
I may notice if they have headphones on but I never notice what kind of shoes they have on. If the runner is a woman, I would notice if she is running in a shirt, or just her sports bra. I mean, that is kind of obvious.

 

[raisincharlie]

If I am approaching a runner coming from the opposite direction, I smile and we exchange greetings. Good morning. It's hot out. That sort of thing.
I may notice if they have headphones on but I never notice what kind of shoes they have on. If the runner is a woman, I would notice if she is running in a shirt, or just her sports bra. I mean, that is kind of obvious.

I run but not for anything other than exercise and I find I really couldn't tell someone much about a runner I saw - hat, general clothing, colors maybe but the face yes. I wouldn't notice excessive detail. Another reason I think LE kept it very simple.

ETA - I might notice shoes if behind another runner - gotta see where I'm going !

 

[strach304]

I'm also wondering if forensic tests can evaluate Nancy's alcohol levels. Obviously there would be a difference 6 hours after her last drink (if she was drinking prior to her departure Friday evening) and a TOD closer to midnight.

I wonder if the body was discovered in time to give accurate readings for blood alcohol content or ???? whatever other tissue tests could be performed?????

They can and will test for alcohol, I don't remember how long that takes to get out of the system but could be important if she was drinking at the party can help determine time of death. Along with that they always check the digestive track for determining TOD from when she ate her last meal. Luckily she was found early. The problem I see with that is her eating at the party but Brad saying she ate before her jog. The two accounts and time frame may be close either way. I don't know how close they can define that by what she ate.

 

[OregonMommy]

I'm also wondering if forensic tests can evaluate Nancy's alcohol levels. Obviously there would be a difference 6 hours after her last drink (if she was drinking prior to her departure Friday evening) and a TOD closer to midnight.

I wonder if the body was discovered in time to give accurate readings for blood alcohol content or ???? whatever other tissue tests could be performed?????


They can and will test for alcohol, I don't remember how long that takes to get out of the system but could be important if she was drinking at the party can help determine time of death. Along with that they always check the digestive track for determining TOD from when she ate her last meal. Luckily she was found early. The problem I see with that is her eating at the party but Brad saying she ate before her jog. The two accounts and time frame may be close either way. I don't know how close they can define that by what she ate.

Oooo...good point. Brad says she left at 7 for her jog. According to Brad's tale of events, Nancy was up at least a half hour before that tending to kids, asking him for more juice...ya, whatever. I know that I ALWAYS eat a little something before my run - whether it's a piece of toast, a bananna, an energy bar. Also, she may have even had a little coffee? Kind of a morbid topic, but could be very important.

I am sad to say that IMO, I don't think she ever had breakfast or went running.

 

[fran]

I'm also wondering if forensic tests can evaluate Nancy's alcohol levels. Obviously there would be a difference 6 hours after her last drink (if she was drinking prior to her departure Friday evening) and a TOD closer to midnight.

I wonder if the body was discovered in time to give accurate readings for blood alcohol content or ???? whatever other tissue tests could be performed?????


They can and will test for alcohol, I don't remember how long that takes to get out of the system but could be important if she was drinking at the party can help determine time of death. Along with that they always check the digestive track for determining TOD from when she ate her last meal. Luckily she was found early. The problem I see with that is her eating at the party but Brad saying she ate before her jog. The two accounts and time frame may be close either way. I don't know how close they can define that by what she ate.

Hi strach, nice to see you here.

I understand that after death, the body produces alcohol. I think the problem would be determining how much the level of alcohol in the body is before/after death. I believe there is a way, but it's debatable as to it's accuracy. So if that's part of either the defense or prosecution, expect both sides to have their own experts. Then it would be up to the jury to decide.

As far as the stomach content. IMO, they most likely could tell how long she died after ingesting certain items of food by how digested they are. I'm not positive, but I THINK. So IF she died shortly after returning home, there should be some food from the party. IF she died in the a.m., then what the husband said she ate should definitely be present.

JMHO
fran

 

[fran]

Gotta LOVE Google!

fran


DIGESTION TIME OF VARIOUS FOODS

http://www.freetrainers.com/FT/jsp/Message.jsp?f_ix=3&t_ix=3122

 

[Deduction]

that is exactly what the abuser is counting on. FULL, COMPLETE, ABSOLUTE CONTROL....imho,fran

Nancy hiring the best of divorce attorney's
Nancy staying late at party
Nancy jogging
Nancy vacationing with parents
I could probably continue this list until the sun goes down
It is apparent they were not in a happy marriage, but IMO Nancy was not being FULLY, COMPLETLY, ABSOLUTLY CONTROLED

For someone to claim this is a case of complete control is an insult to the women out there who ARE being completly controlled and only hurts their chances of someone really listening. IMO

 

[KTaylorsc]

I'm thinking that BC didn't even know what colors Nancy had on. My husband will ask me if I've had a shower when he comes home and I'm still in my work clothes...I'm just saying Husbands "normally" (I agree there are some who would) notice what color of shirt you have on when you go out the door.

ETA: to me it would look more suspicous if he had know the exact color of shirt and shorts she had on.


JMO

 

[KTaylorsc]

Nancy hiring the best of divorce attorney's
Nancy staying late at party
Nancy jogging
Nancy vacationing with parents
I could probably continue this list until the sun goes down
It is apparent they were not in a happy marriage, but IMO Nancy was being FULLY, COMPLETLY, ABSOLUTLY CONTROLED

For someone to claim this is a case of complete control is an insult to the women out there who ARE being completly controlled and only hurts their chances of someone really listening. IMO

those things don't seem controlling to me. If he would have not gotten the X5 that she insisted on having or the 1200 purse or let her do anything or have any friends.

 

[d99gr81]

Nancy hiring the best of divorce attorney's
Nancy staying late at party
Nancy jogging
Nancy vacationing with parents
I could probably continue this list until the sun goes down
It is apparent they were not in a happy marriage, but IMO Nancy was being FULLY, COMPLETLY, ABSOLUTLY CONTROLED

For someone to claim this is a case of complete control is an insult to the women out there who ARE being completly controlled and only hurts their chances of someone really listening. IMO

Did you mean something else here? I think you were making points as to why she was NOT controlled but maybe I am reading that wrong?

The only thing he tried to control seems to be her spending in recent months. The stories from friends are hear say and he had rebuttals that seemed provable and contradictory to those claims.

 

[fran]

Nancy hiring the best of divorce attorney's
Nancy staying late at party
Nancy jogging
Nancy vacationing with parents
I could probably continue this list until the sun goes down
It is apparent they were not in a happy marriage, but IMO Nancy was being FULLY, COMPLETLY, ABSOLUTLY CONTROLED

For someone to claim this is a case of complete control is an insult to the women out there who ARE being completly controlled and only hurts their chances of someone really listening. IMO

Ahhh.....but...you......see.......THAT IS just IT!!

Years of ABUSE and CONTROL and FINALLY the ABUSED stands up for herself, she talks back, the ABUSER is LOOSING CONTROL. The ABUSED files for divorce. The ABUSE gets UGLIER, MORE VIOLENT. The WORDS turn into ACTION, IE PHYSICAL VIOLENCE.

THAT is WHY anyone you talk to about an abusive relationship, will be the FIRST to tell you, the MOST DANGEROUS TIME FOR THE VICTIM, is when SEVERING the relationship.

THAT is why this once, most likely psychologically abusive relationship turned into PHYSICAL VIOLENCE.

Look through any news paper archive in the country. Look at the, mostly women, who are murdered by the SO, whether married or not, and read the story behind the crime. The murder, USUALLY, is the result of the, mostly woman, severing ties, breaking up, divorcing, separating, distancing herself from her ABUSER. Many of them have restraining orders as well (which are really only good as the paper they're written on, IF the abuser has the intent to kill the abused, there is a way).

LE is called in to pick up the dead body. One of the FIRST important clues that the perp is most likely the victim's SO, they were in the midst of a separation, divorce, severing ties.

That's the way this works. Anyone presently in an abusive relationship SHOULD be aware that when they decide to take their life back, RUN and seek HELP. They are NOT alone. Shelters are filled with women and children who've been there and done that, and are survivors.

Please, SEEK HELP. You are NOT alone and there ARE people who CARE. PLEASE, get HELP.

JMHO
fran

 

[KTaylorsc]

I just really hope for those girl's sakes that their father didn't do this.
If I am wrong I will say so.

IIRC the Rentz's and the Lister's had two press conferences where they didn't want to discuss the case, brad or nancy. They only wanted to discuss the girls, then BOOM, they request and receive emergency custody and in the custody order they did alot of slinging mud. It is only human for Brad to come out of the corner swinging with the answers he did. I know I would have done the same thing.