The link reminds me of something that's been a question to me for a while and maybe I just missed it.... does anyone know or has it been reported when Jaycee's first daughter was born. I am actually trying to determine "conception date", more or less. Because I figure it could play in how Nancy is perceived if Jaycee was say 6, 7 or 8 months pregnant at the time PG went to jail for those 4 weeks or so in 93. If Jaycee was pregnant at 13, can you imagine....... escaping would have probably been the farthest thing from her mind, especially if Nancy was offering some sort of "helping" hand.
Nancy Garrido - thread #2
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The link reminds me of something that's been a question to me for a while and maybe I just missed it.... does anyone know or has it been reported when Jaycee's first daughter was born. I am actually trying to determine "conception date", more or less. Because I figure it could play in how Nancy is perceived if Jaycee was say 6, 7 or 8 months pregnant at the time PG went to jail for those 4 weeks or so in 93. If Jaycee was pregnant at 13, can you imagine....... escaping would have probably been the farthest thing from her mind, especially if Nancy was offering some sort of "helping" hand.
Everything I have read says PG impregnated JC shortly after he returned from jail. I've never seen an actual birthdate, for either girl, reported. I don't think JC was pregnant before he went to jail, but I do think they were planning on conceiving with JC.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/09/03/crimesider/entry5284576.shtml
Wiki says the first was born in 1994. That's pushin' it for JC to be impregnated before he went to jail. Not to mention, they probably wouldn't have known she was pregnant before he got locked up the first week of April.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaycee_Lee_Dugard#Captivity
BBM
We don't even know if this is fact or fiction. IIRC, the only source of this information is Michael Cardoza, who, IMO, isn't a very reliable source and shouldn't be leaking any of the information he has been. Also, he has no reason to be talking to anyone in regards to this case since he isn't representing anyone involved in it.
points taken.
bbm
Yes if that's a correct birth, then it would most likely be after his stint in jail in 1993. I wonder how they know the birthdate? There was obviously no birth certificate, I guess either Nancy or Phillip wrote down the date on a calendar and they found it somewhere in the house.
My guess is the girls and JC know when their birthdays are. This could be where reports of the first being born in 94 came from. Also, maybe one of the UCB officers asked their birthdays during questioning. It would be a fairly common question to ask 2 young girls that you are trying to build a rapport with. A common ice-breaker. I know JW's don't celebrate birthdays, but they do acknowledge them. Otherwise, they would never age(this would be my dream religion
). I think P&NG would at least keep track of milestones like date of birth. JMO
). I think P&NG would at least keep track of milestones like date of birth. JMOI too have wondered about NG. I am so surprised that no one has talked about her from their past. "She was in my class in high school and...." Nothing. It's like she didn't exist.
I was talking with hubby about PG and NG meeting in prison. He said that people just don't meet in prison. First you have to get on a visitors list. He feels that the only way that she could get to "meet" PG was if the uncle and PG were friends. Maybe they started writing. Then she got on a visitor's list.
But they aren't meeting in some cozy little room. They are in a room surrounded by armed guards watching to make sure they don't touch and exchange something.
That's my guess. The uncle was a real prince to introduce little Nancy to his good bud , PG the violent rapist.
I was talking with hubby about PG and NG meeting in prison. He said that people just don't meet in prison. First you have to get on a visitors list. He feels that the only way that she could get to "meet" PG was if the uncle and PG were friends. Maybe they started writing. Then she got on a visitor's list.
But they aren't meeting in some cozy little room. They are in a room surrounded by armed guards watching to make sure they don't touch and exchange something.
That's my guess. The uncle was a real prince to introduce little Nancy to his good bud , PG the violent rapist.
my2sisters
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They could have been introduced through JW teaching in the prison. Maybe she was one of the teachers or went there with one to visit her uncle. PG could have spotted her and made an effort to learn. Remember his mother, Patricia, was JW. IIRC We don't know if she was always a JW or if she converted, and when.
I agree a million percent! If there had been no "introduction" between Nancy's uncle and PG, Jaycee would probably have never been kidnapped. Makes me wonder why there is no media digging into Nancy's uncle??? Why is it so quiet in that regard?
txsvicki
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Boy, I really disagree that PG wouldn't have kidnapped Jaycee or a child if he hadn't met Nancy. He certainly abducted and raped the casino employee and had the place all elaborately prepared. He got caught and she ran out and squealed to the cops. After he had a place at mom's to stash away an abductee, he probably figured that a child to be held captive as a slave would be much easier than a grown woman. Nancy grabbed Jaycee and went right along with it all. Maybe she grabbed her because she wasn't as good a driver. Who knows.
i think, not putting words in another posters mouth, but i think what is possible is if garrido didnt have a wife backing how much he'd 'changed" the parole board wouldt have let him out in the first place, therefore, he would have still been locked up today and jaycee would never have had to go thru this.....
Actually phillip grabbed Jaycee as they were in a 2 door car, phillip opened the door, grabbed her and nancy was in the passenger seat. Carl saw nancy when they drove by the house, turned around, prior to stopping and taking Jaycee.
exactly, what I was saying, thanks!
The car that is believed to be the one they used to abduct JC is a 4-door.
Do you have a link to where it says for certain that PG is the one that grabbed her? Because I've always been under the impression that it was N that did the grabbing. I think it makes more sense that N was in the back waiting to grab her. I realize it's been said that Carl saw her in the passenger seat, but I've always wondered if he was 100% certain that she was. She could have been in the back and looking at the car from behind as it drove away, it would appear as though she was in the front passenger seat. Especially if she was in an alert position, leaning over the front seat.
ETA: From I.G. Shaw's report...
BBM
Some more info about why her original lawyer got removed. It had nothing to do with PG it seems.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/11/25/BA4L1AQHVS.DTL
Wierd.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/11/25/BA4L1AQHVS.DTL
Wierd.
Respectfully snipped by me from the " The Jaycee Dugard Story tonight 8 pm CST" thread, page 2 post 39, please watch the re-enactment that Carl starred in and made sure was done correctly.
11-13-2009, 06:25 PM
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To confuse the matter further ... I just viewed a clip from Missing Reward featuring Stacy Keach, filmed in August 1991.
The clip featured Carl Probyn, playing the part of himself, jumping on his bicycle and peddling up the hill, and includes a very quick and poorly filmed scene of Jaycee screaming as she is being pulled into the left side of the car, over the lap of the driver, and onto the passenger side.
Probyn stated that he insisted on doing the filming himself and said "It took us 12 hours to shoot this segment ... We did it three and four times and everything is just the way it happened".
Here is the video (with the relevant portions starting at 1:49 of the video clip):
YouTube- Jaycee Dugard A Closer Look at Her Life Since Being Kidnapped in 1991~A Look Back
YouTube- Jaycee Dugard A Closer Look at Her Life Since Being Kidnapped in 1991~A Look Back
This is MOO, but I tend to trust Carls eye witness version as the show was supervised by him during filming. If you watch the tape, you may agree with me also.
Sunnie, I've seen the Missing Reward clip and the TLC show. I don't really know why it matters whether or not she was dragged into the front driver door or back or whether it was NG or PG. But I think it was the back door and I think it was NG.
I think Carl may have thought he saw the driver door open and pull JC in. I think since she was recovered, it came to light that NG was the one that actually grabbed JC. All sources have reported since JC was recovered that it was the woman passenger (NG) that grabbed her. Why would the passenger do the grabbing over the driver? It makes sense that she would be in the back. It also makes sense why Carl would have seen it as the front door being flung open.
http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20111362,00.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20080116084746/http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/dugard_jaycee.html
Carl, in the heat of the moment, IMO, made a simple mistake. I think from behind the car, looking into the bright morning light it could very easily look as though the front door was flung open when it could really be the back door. It makes more sense that NG would do the grabbing from the back while PG did the driving. In the same TLC show it also showed a re-enactment of JC being pulled into the back and her looking out the back window as the car drives off. All reports that I've seen since her recovery name NG as the actual abductor, but before her recovery, Carl is quoted as saying the driver door was flung open and she was pulled in, or he saw someone pull her into the driver's side or a woman grabbed her. I think the reason for the definite statements we have seen implicating NG as being the one that actually grabbed JC is because of information given by PG and/or NG and/or JC about the day of the abduction.
http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=65885
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_Jaycee_Lee_Dugard#Abduction_and_search_effort
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/08/28/crimesider/entry5271075.shtml
http://www.amw.com/missing_children/case.cfm?id=25928
I believe Carl when he says that he saw the front driver door open and JC pulled in. But I don't believe that is what actually happened. It is easy to see how he could have been mistaken on this minor detail. JMO
I think Carl may have thought he saw the driver door open and pull JC in. I think since she was recovered, it came to light that NG was the one that actually grabbed JC. All sources have reported since JC was recovered that it was the woman passenger (NG) that grabbed her. Why would the passenger do the grabbing over the driver? It makes sense that she would be in the back. It also makes sense why Carl would have seen it as the front door being flung open.
http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20111362,00.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20080116084746/http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/dugard_jaycee.html
Carl, in the heat of the moment, IMO, made a simple mistake. I think from behind the car, looking into the bright morning light it could very easily look as though the front door was flung open when it could really be the back door. It makes more sense that NG would do the grabbing from the back while PG did the driving. In the same TLC show it also showed a re-enactment of JC being pulled into the back and her looking out the back window as the car drives off. All reports that I've seen since her recovery name NG as the actual abductor, but before her recovery, Carl is quoted as saying the driver door was flung open and she was pulled in, or he saw someone pull her into the driver's side or a woman grabbed her. I think the reason for the definite statements we have seen implicating NG as being the one that actually grabbed JC is because of information given by PG and/or NG and/or JC about the day of the abduction.
http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=65885
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_Jaycee_Lee_Dugard#Abduction_and_search_effort
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/08/28/crimesider/entry5271075.shtml
http://www.amw.com/missing_children/case.cfm?id=25928
I believe Carl when he says that he saw the front driver door open and JC pulled in. But I don't believe that is what actually happened. It is easy to see how he could have been mistaken on this minor detail. JMO
I think you guys, either one one of you could be right. And, Tizzle, the only reason I could see what difference it makes is that it makes a difference in how NG is prosecuted. PG is down and done, DNA of the children totally does him in. However, NG's involvement is much more "up in the air" if, in fact, her attorneys are going to say she didn't "physically snatch" Jaycee. So, the determination of whether or not Nancy was or was not the snactcher, and if involved how much, in the actual "physical kidnapping" of Jaycee is really, really important. Sooo, trying to determine what actually transpired; front door?; back door; driver's side'; passenger side; it's all really quite important. JMO