Nationwide College Cheating Scandal - Actresses, Business Owners Charged, Mar 2019 - #2

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Tugela said:
It is not just rich people who cheat on SATs, poor people do as well. There is just less money involved.

In any case, an elite university should be going after elite students (provided they can round up the fees involved, if not, the state university is just down the road and the education is just as good), not in terms of wealth or status, but in terms of academic performance. Other stuff, such as sports, money and diversity should not count, or at the very least, be secondary all else being equal.
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I have worked with the highly privileged and the very poor. I am not sure what you mean by poor people cheating on the SATs with less money involved. The gate keeping at the institutions responsible for the SAT/ACT is very solid. If you take the facts of this case in respect to cheating--- these families had to go to private centers, pay psychologists for dx's that would provide accommodations and pay individuals to take the tests at these centers. When a student signs up for testing, they submit a picture for their test ticket (SAT Security Protocols: What to Expect on Test Day) and it must match your id that you bring to testing. No middle class or poor family I know has the resources to hire a psychologist, test-taker, etc. The idea that there is an easy way to cheat is not my experience or the experience of my peer counselors.

The whole idea of elite universities and elite students is much more complicated. There are very talented students who have not had access to great early education and education opportunities. Elite colleges are right in looking to ensure that they find these great students even if they don't have all that other elite students have in terms of grades and opportunities.

Depending on the state university, it is not true that the state school is just as good as the elite college--- in resources, access to professors, access to grants/funding, and support for students who may need guidance in the transition to college which are options that all students may require in the transition.
 
Attorneys for Gregory and Amy Colburn — who are accused of paying thousands to boost their son's SAT scores — took it a step further Monday.

They filed a motion to dismiss saying, "While the government's strategy of lumping together all of the parents into a single conspiracy has had the intended effect of creating widespread public outrage… there is no legal basis for including the Colburns."

Parents may be taking a huge risk by pleading not guilty in college admissions scandal
 
kaen said:
Depending on the state university, it is not true that the state school is just as good as the elite college--- in resources, access to professors, access to grants/funding, and support for students who may need guidance in the transition to college which are options that all students may require in the transition.
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Funding IS available in public institutions, mentors are definitely and without a doubt there as well - wonderful mentors working in their fields.

The big difference is the public college students largely have to rely on their own initiative and ambition to find the funding and mentors rather than having a private-school counselor guide them to the resources. But to me, personal initiative is a good thing. A very good thing.

jmo
 
whitelilac said:
I knew it ! Their defense is that Singer et al misrepresented the "deal". They didn't know it was illegal, such wholesome innocence. Right.
Didn't she agree that the $500K would be listed as a "charity donation" on their tax returns? Please..
People with that much money are not naive when it comes to dealing with the IRS.
She's a liar.
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Not only that, but Lori was so flippant when Singer was asking her about the scheme on the wiretap. She's all, "Oh okay, so it's just the IRS who is asking? Not USC?" She seriously only cared about if USC was on to them. Like writing a check to a fake charity and taking a tax write-off - no big deal. She knew she was paying for Singer's "services" - not some charity. I hope the IRS goes after her hard.
 
Inthedetails said:
Snipped and bbm

Funding IS available in public institutions, mentors are definitely and without a doubt there as well - wonderful mentors working in their fields.

The big difference is the public college students largely have to rely on their own initiative and ambition to find the funding and mentors rather than having a private-school counselor guide them to the resources. But to me, personal initiative is a good thing. A very good thing.

jmo
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In my experiences (may not be yours) placing students in highly regarded public universities, the professors/mentors are often most available to graduate students and a few stand-out undergrads beyond the 1st year level. These opportunities are not only hard to find but also difficult to maneuver if the student has work obligations or other barriers. Classes are in large settings with little opportunity to get to know professors while students work with grad students/undergrads who are TAs (with a varied TA quality of support). Getting research and educational opportunities is not just about ambition and initiative-- access is also key.

Nor is it about private counselors guiding in place of ambition and initiative. Students don't know what they don't know--communication and access to programs is something the many public universities do not have the funds and person power to do effectively. Hence, the rise of "honors" college programs at larger universities to attract students who often choose private college programs because of the communication, access, and opportunity. If students get into a highly coveted "honors" programs, there is often much more mentoring and advantages that mimics the private college experience of smaller program: more direct access to mentors and programs. I have had students who were accepted into state programs that had advisors who knew of few opportunities and program availability. That said, the "honors" program at the same university worked with students more effectively on course sequence, access to academic support if needed, guidance on research opportunity, and building a community of learners.

At smaller colleges, professors have a more refined focus on student engagement from the 1st semester of the 1st year. In private elite colleges (that are smaller), students work directly with professors and many more have greater access to research opportunities or departmental opportunities-- all students have access to that "honors" program kind of experience. In larger elite schools, there is attention paid to providing access to all students for research opportunities right from 1st year with highly supervised graduate students, assistant professors and research labs.
 
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Inthedetails said:
" ... [A] source close to the 54-year-old actress tells ET that she feels like those who orchestrated the scheme misled her about the severity of her involvement.

'[Lori and her husband] claim they were under the impression they might be breaking rules, but not laws,' the source says. 'They feel they were manipulated by those involved and are planning that as part of their defense.'"


Lori Loughlin & Husband Feel 'Manipulated' in College Scam: 'They Had No Bad Intention,' Source Says
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What b.s. And ignorance of the law is no defense. But good try, people.
 
Tugela said:
It is not an unreasonable defence. At a lot of these elite universities you can get your kids viewed favorably by making some sizable donation to the university, and that is not illegal. They will probably claim that they believed that Singer and company were being employed as middlemen to facilitate the same thing, since their donation was going to the university, less Singer's fee for the service. It will be up to the DA to prove that they knew that they were doing something illegal. I imagine that would be something like evidence that they knew that the coach was designating the kids as recruits without telling the university why, and agreed with it. If there is not documented evidence for that, then the parents could say that they made the donation in good faith and are not responsible for subsequent fraudulent behavior by the coaching staff at the university.
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BBM.

No it won't. Not one bit. Not at all. It is never the prosecutor's burden to prove someone knew a crime they committed was illegal. Not only is it not their burden (because knowledge of illegality is not an element of any crime), it is also not and never is a defense to a crime (that you didn't know it was illegal).

Nope.
 
kaen said:
I have worked with the highly privileged and the very poor. I am not sure what you mean by poor people cheating on the SATs with less money involved. The gate keeping at the institutions responsible for the SAT/ACT is very solid. If you take the facts of this case in respect to cheating--- these families had to go to private centers, pay psychologists for dx's that would provide accommodations and pay individuals to take the tests at these centers. When a student signs up for testing, they submit a picture for their test ticket (SAT Security Protocols: What to Expect on Test Day) and it must match your id that you bring to testing. No middle class or poor family I know has the resources to hire a psychologist, test-taker, etc. The idea that there is an easy way to cheat is not my experience or the experience of my peer counselors.

The whole idea of elite universities and elite students is much more complicated. There are very talented students who have not had access to great early education and education opportunities. Elite colleges are right in looking to ensure that they find these great students even if they don't have all that other elite students have in terms of grades and opportunities.

Depending on the state university, it is not true that the state school is just as good as the elite college--- in resources, access to professors, access to grants/funding, and support for students who may need guidance in the transition to college which are options that all students may require in the transition.
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Thank you. There's never been any evidence of poor people successfully cheating on the SAT's. You need big money to be able to be able to pull that off.
 
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