Nadal
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No. Asha's family went to Macedonia Missionary Baptist Church, Mackie was the Pastor of Buffalo Baptist Church.
NC NC - Asha Degree, 9, Shelby, 14 Feb 2000
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No. Asha's family went to Macedonia Missionary Baptist Church, Mackie was the Pastor of Buffalo Baptist Church.
Thank you! I pray Asha’s family get answers some day soon, almost 20 years they have had to live with not knowing what happened to her.
Indy Anna
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Some thoughts:
1. Asha's dad was up until 2:30 a.m. the night she disappeared. What if Asha had arrangements to meet someone earlier, but was unable to leave because her father was up so late? I wonder what a normal bedtime is for the parents? IIRC, the AC went out that night, so the circumstances were unusual.
What if Asha went to meet up with someone as soon as she was able to sneak out of the house, but the other person had left by then because he/she decided Asha wasn't going to show up. Asha may have continued walking around, trying to find the person she was to meet up with. Being cold and wet, when she saw some buildings in the distance, she may have taken shelter in the shed. What other buildings were between Asha's home and the area of the sightings and shed in 2000?
If the person Asha was to meet up with was no longer at the agreed-upon location, maybe she was spotted and abducted by an opportunistic abductor sometime after the reported sightings. But, if the person Asha went to meet wasn't her abductor, I would think the person who had made plans with Asha that night would come forward since he/she is an adult now... unless that person now fears getting into legal trouble because Asha was a minor and he/she was older and may not have had completely innocuous intentions.
2. Maybe the T-shirt and book were found in an abandoned house/building outside of Cleveland County, but the library book led to an association with Cleveland County. Since investigators would be able to trace the previous owner of a house, maybe the residence or building was used by squatters. Or, Asha's abductor may have used several aliases. Since Asha, if still alive, would have outgrown the book and T-shirt when her abductor moved to a new location, they may have left the items behind. The items could have been found when the house/building was slated to be demolished, was renovated, or new residents moved in.
1. Asha's dad was up until 2:30 a.m. the night she disappeared. What if Asha had arrangements to meet someone earlier, but was unable to leave because her father was up so late? I wonder what a normal bedtime is for the parents? IIRC, the AC went out that night, so the circumstances were unusual.
What if Asha went to meet up with someone as soon as she was able to sneak out of the house, but the other person had left by then because he/she decided Asha wasn't going to show up. Asha may have continued walking around, trying to find the person she was to meet up with. Being cold and wet, when she saw some buildings in the distance, she may have taken shelter in the shed. What other buildings were between Asha's home and the area of the sightings and shed in 2000?
If the person Asha was to meet up with was no longer at the agreed-upon location, maybe she was spotted and abducted by an opportunistic abductor sometime after the reported sightings. But, if the person Asha went to meet wasn't her abductor, I would think the person who had made plans with Asha that night would come forward since he/she is an adult now... unless that person now fears getting into legal trouble because Asha was a minor and he/she was older and may not have had completely innocuous intentions.
2. Maybe the T-shirt and book were found in an abandoned house/building outside of Cleveland County, but the library book led to an association with Cleveland County. Since investigators would be able to trace the previous owner of a house, maybe the residence or building was used by squatters. Or, Asha's abductor may have used several aliases. Since Asha, if still alive, would have outgrown the book and T-shirt when her abductor moved to a new location, they may have left the items behind. The items could have been found when the house/building was slated to be demolished, was renovated, or new residents moved in.
Nadal
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1. For the record there's a lot of inconsistencies regarding the timeline the night Asha disappeared. Her parents have made conflicting statements over the years, it's difficult for us going off the media to determine an accurate timeline, i think LE have likely sorted it out and don't feel the need to give the public a confirmed version of events. Some suspect the parents due to this but i actually think it makes perfect sense and makes them LESS suspicious that they have inconsistencies. Some of these inconsistencies could come from the family members giving different times in initial interviews, them all having their stories match 100% could suggest rehearsed stories. Others will be due to misremembering years later, again a coached story rarely changes but if something major happened to you yesterday and i was to ask you what you did yesterday then ask you in two years what you did on 17th October 2019 no doubt those two accounts would differ if you're telling the truth, in minor hard to recall ways like times since her parents obviously didn't think February 13th 2000 was a notable day until the day after when they realized Asha was missing. Concistency is arguably just as good of a reason to suspect coaching. Also there was a blackout that night, would make sense that they didn't keep track of time properly during a blackout. Add all that to the sightings and LE unequivocally (posted their statement ruling out the family on the last page) ruling them out i'm safe believing it's just good old memories are terrible. Anyway, just pointing out that 2.30 may not be the correct time, i've heard it as early as 12.30 from statements attributed to the family.
For the record i think that theory is fine, it could be the case. Personally, i don't think it is since by all accounts Asha was an intelligent 9 year old girl. She would have had a clear concept of time, not as well as adults but i think she'd know whoever she was going to meet wouldn't have hung around for hours waiting on her. If she was 4 or 5 or had learning difficulties i'd be more enthusiastic about that theory but thinking of myself at 9 i know i would have realized. Doesn't mean Asha would have just giving my opinion off my own experiences.
2. This is a great theory that ties it all together, not sure why i didn't think of something similar. I think it'd work better if a child had been brought there to be abused and they found the book and t-shirt there though. Just finding a book that's for kids younger than Asha was and a t-shirt of a band popular a decade before Asha went missing wouldn't make it "potentially casebreaking clues" i don't think, there'd have to be some connection to child abuse or Asha herself IMO.
Nadal
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Was just thinking the picture of the t-shirt looks like an actual evidence picture LE took. But the picture of the book looks like a stock picture they've found online. Actually i just found the exact picture, google it it's the second one that comes up. I googled the t-shirt too and that one didn't come up but it doesn't mean i've not missed it. 8 pictures of the t-shirt comes up immediately and none have a wooden coathanger like the one in the picture, scrolled down and couldn't find any either. I also googled a few other things like "New Kids on the Block red and white t-shirt" and that picture doesn't come up.
Assuming the t-shirt picture isn't a stock one too why do you think they'd not picture the actual Dr Seuss book? Possibly there's blood or something on it that would make it inappropriate to post. Or maybe they don't have the book? I don't really have a theory of what that would mean but i just found it curious.
Still hoping that Asha is alive, imo, speculation.
VIDEO: Is Asha Degree alive?
VIDEO: Is Asha Degree alive?
- Sep 6, 2017
Nadal
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Hope he's right, sadly i doubt it. "We're making that assumption" sounds carefully worded to me, they've (obviously all LE aren't the same just saying) straight up said they think certain missing people are alive like Bryce Laprisa for example. I think that just means "we don't have any evidence of her demise" since there's obviously no body and there's no suspect either.
What are the chances of a replacement child for the abductor, maybe they had a little girl in the late 80’s or early 90’s who died? I don’t recall reading that they identified the little girl in the picture. Asha was old enough to know her family information, so it is a bit out there as far as theories. They would have to literally lock her up for years to get her under their control, but it has happened.
I've been thinking about the Dr. Seuss book for several days now. I don't think it was found in her book bag that was buried--if it was, and LE can't find records of the library book being checked out as they've said, wouldn't they just assume it WAS checked out by Asha? That thought, and the FBI saying this book was a "critical clue" to finding Asha, makes me 99% sure it was not found with Asha's things but somewhere suspicious. And that they are trying to tie a perp.
Also, has anyone else read that where Asha's book bag was found "buried" used to be a swimming hole? Of course, I can't find that quote right now, but that also gave me pause. Could she or someone have dropped it in the water, on purpose or accidentally, and it washed the 20+ miles from her home? I have been assuming someone "buried" the bag far from her area(which is very suspicious to me), but if it washed 20+ miles over the years, it could've started out anywhere, right?
Nadal
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It's basically a fantasy, i don't recall any confirmed cases. There's a few theorized cases where people think the families knew the replacement childs of their missing childs weren't actually their children, like - Disappearance of Bobby Dunbar - Wikipedia or just the whole The Impostor scenario but i'm not sure why anyone would believe him. I'm not aware of any confirmed cases.
As far as we know they didn't identify the girl in the picture but this was back in 2001, wouldn't be surprising if they did and they've not told us to protect potential future cases.
Found it! From one of Migmuu's awesome posts:
(Begins with a little background on the finding of the bag)
Inside, he found a beige and black book bag containing Asha’s name and phone number. Although the name did not immediately register for Terry, he still found the contents of the bag “strange enough that I didn’t feel comfortable with it”. He tried to call someone about it right then but was unable to get cell service in the area, so he decided to write the information down and call the number later. The next morning, he mentioned the discovery to his wife, who recognized the name and told him to call the police.
According to Sheriff Crawford, the book bag was double-wrapped in a black trash bag and appeared to have been buried at the location for quite some time. He also stated that 90 to 99% of its contents belonged to Asha. Law enforcement has remained mum about what exactly was in the bag, but the Charlotte Observer reported that it included a pencil case, a sheet of paper, and some unspecified clothing. It was found about 50 yards west of Highway 18, in a muddy, densely wooded area between a creek and the road. One local man, Bruce Smart, said the book bag was found near the site of what used to be an old swimming hole. "
(Begins with a little background on the finding of the bag)
Inside, he found a beige and black book bag containing Asha’s name and phone number. Although the name did not immediately register for Terry, he still found the contents of the bag “strange enough that I didn’t feel comfortable with it”. He tried to call someone about it right then but was unable to get cell service in the area, so he decided to write the information down and call the number later. The next morning, he mentioned the discovery to his wife, who recognized the name and told him to call the police.
According to Sheriff Crawford, the book bag was double-wrapped in a black trash bag and appeared to have been buried at the location for quite some time. He also stated that 90 to 99% of its contents belonged to Asha. Law enforcement has remained mum about what exactly was in the bag, but the Charlotte Observer reported that it included a pencil case, a sheet of paper, and some unspecified clothing. It was found about 50 yards west of Highway 18, in a muddy, densely wooded area between a creek and the road. One local man, Bruce Smart, said the book bag was found near the site of what used to be an old swimming hole. "
Nadal
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Why would it matter what it used to be? No that scenario is insane, lol sorry. I think the post before this was very well thought out and probably relevant but you lost me here.
Nadal
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Nadal
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After getting a few notifications for this post i just remembered to point out that Macedonia Missionary Baptist Church is in the neighbouring town of Waco. Waco and Shelby are nearby they are both in Cleveland County but the post i responded to said she went to a local church and i don't think that would count as local seeing as there was several Baptist Church's in Shelby. Buffalo Baptist Church is in Shelby so would be local to Asha, she may have known people who went there but from a quick google there's several other Baptist Church's in Shelby, quite a few closer than Buffalo. There's actually one on the same street as her home: Mulls Memorial Baptist Church. I don't know for sure why she went to the one in Waco but she had a lot of family in Cleveland County so i assume it was the longtime family church.
BethAnn777
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Interesting thought. Do we know more about the backpack being buried? For instance, has it been confirmed that someone dug a hole, put the backpack wrapped in trash bags inside, and covered it all with dirt?
Long shot sure, but your idea could be plausible. Could the bag have washed down stream, gotten stuck in a low spot, and then been covered (naturally, not by a person) in dirt/leaves/debris?
I think you are really thinking outside the box and I appreciate your perspective.
Could Asha have put her own backpack in trash bags that came from her own house? It was either raining when she left or shortly thereafter, can’t remember which. The trash bags would have kept the contents dry.
One more thought, could Asha have had a mental break? Does that happen with kids as young as she was? Could she have committed suicide? Perhaps she was being bullied or sexually abused and went off into the wilderness to commit suicide? Not every person who has committed suicide has been found. Could her remains be close to home?
So many questions. I sure would love for Asha to come home safe to her family someday.
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In this link it says the library records do not go back to the year of Asha' s disappearance. The book bag was found in 2001 so I think this rules it out because the school probably still had records of it at that time. It seems to me that the book must have been found more recently.
I know when I graduated high school and before they would give me my diploma that I had to pay back some money for such things as activity fees that I hadn't paid over the years and a few library and text books that never got returned. I had long since forgotten about them but the county school district didnt. When you don't return a book it goes on your personal record, so I wonder if LE thought to check out those records?
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article219720915.html
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Maldoror
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Real unlikely. Opportunistic abductors are extremely rare, and the chances she just ran into one that night at that hour are very low. It's much more probable she was lured outside by someone she knew, or decided to meet with someone she was comfortable with.
That being said, I'm seeing some posts here about how the backpack that was unearthed in 2001 was actually found on a location that had previously been a swimming hole. With that in mind, I find it a bit uncanny that the Sheriff's Department appealed for more information on the Seuss book called 'McElligot's Pool' in relation to the case...
Now my question is: do we know what the swimming hole was named? When did it cease to act as one, or when did it dry up?
Nadal
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It actually says it was found near the site of what used to be a swimming hole.
"It was found about 50 yards west of Highway 18, in a muddy, densely wooded area between a creek and the road. One local man, Bruce Smart, said the book bag was found near the site of what used to be an old swimming hole."
You could interpret that different ways the only way to know for sure would be asking Bruce Smart. Personally, i think he mentioned the former swimming hole because that was the only notable thing in the area. Think he would have said "on" or "in" and not "near" if it was directly there.
The area was extremely hazardous and i find the mens khaki pants interesting since it's "unclear" if they were connected, LE would usually say they aren't if they knew for sure. For example they ruled out a similar plastic bag to the ones that wrapped Asha's bag found in an area of interest.
"Unlike the original search in Cleveland County — which took place in February in a fairly flat area — those in Burke County would face serious difficulties due to the rough terrain, dense vegetation, and sweltering heat. Variously described as an “atrocious” search area and a “honeycomb of pig trials”, it was deemed so hazardous that Sheriff Crawford would only allow trained professionals to participate. Search coordinator Randy McKinney, surprised that the bag was even found at all, called the discovery a “fluke”.
When asked how optimistic he was about finding anything, McKinney put it this way: “If there are ten oranges out there, and we ask [the searchers] how many they think they’re going to find, they’d say two.”
Starting on August 15, authorities scoured a 3-mile-long, 400-foot-wide area around the book bag. Cadaver dogs alerted to three spot close to the bag, but turned up nothing. Searchers also discovered animal bones and a pair of men’s khaki pants; it is unclear if they have any relation to Asha’s case."
Also have to give it to LE they did quite a few searches for her, i wonder why these areas were of interest:
"In November 2004, authorities searched an empty lot on Rube Spangle Road in Lawndale, about three miles from the Degree home, but found nothing but animal bones. In April 2005, they dug up part of a 30-acre lot just south of Shelby, walking away with nothing but two bags full of dirt."
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