NC NC - James 'Martin' Roberts, 19, Boone, 21 April 2016

[ChatteringBirds]

I could see that and I agree they are similar in some ways. For some reason, I always think of Bryce Lapsia when I think about this case. He too was attending college, broke up with his girlfriend, was taking unprescribed medications, and told his parents he had something important he needed to talk to them about.

I'll have to read his.
With Macin's case, I thought about the lack of a vehicle, passion for nature, conflicts with family (no judgment; it happens in many families), and an undisclosed note left behind.
It's so hard; I can imagine both sides, the missing young people but also what it would be like for the family.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I could see that and I agree they are similar in some ways. For some reason, I always think of Bryce Lapsia when I think about this case. He too was attending college, broke up with his girlfriend, was taking unprescribed medications, and told his parents he had something important he needed to talk to them about.

I'll have to read his.
With Macin's case, I thought about the lack of a vehicle, passion for nature, conflicts with family (no judgement; it happens in many families), and an undisclosed note left behind.
It's so hard; I can imagine both sides, the missing young people but also what it would be like for the family.

 

[Dnp2be]

@Aun
I appreciated reading your view on this case. It was very detailed and thorough. I am not real well at quoting multiple statements on here and I’m on my phone, so please forgive as my post might be a little more of a mess lol.

I’m really on the fence when it comes to this case however there are a few things that stand out to me:

Suicide-it appears he had some pretty hard life lessons he was going through. That can become overwhelming and cause hopelessness. Losing the person I was closest to from suicide and working in mental health/inpatient psych for many years have shown me that there are no right or wrong answers when it comes to suicide. Although I would agree buying groceries right before planning on committing suicide seems strange, I often wonder if he hadn’t bought them for someone else. For instance, maybe he owed a roommate for eating some of their food or something similar. And he was essentially clearing his debt before “leaving”.

What I mean by no rights or wrongs regarding suicides is from my experience, you just never know. What you and I might think is a problem that can be easily fixed or not a big deal, may actually be the breaking point for someone else. I’ve spoken with many patients who survived attempts and of course have also cared for those who later took their own lives. And although we can never know the real reasons they decided to take their own lives, sometimes a note offers a glimpse. Unfortunately, people take their lives for all sorts of reasons including thoughts of being a burden and/or a failure, losing someone they feel they can’t live without, out of anger, as an act of revenge, etc. My grandmother, in her suicide note, cited that she didn’t want to be burden to any of us because of the debt she had gotten herself into and being with her soulmate again (my grandfather who died 4 years earlier). They loved each other like no other marriage I’ve ever seen. And grandpa truly worried more about her being ok (more than his impending death) until his last breath. But my point is that no one cared about her debt. No one ever once considered her a burden. It was hard for my parents to understand why she felt so hopeless. But, those were her feelings and thoughts.

I also want to add that people don’t always do what we would think they would do right before they commit suicide. Now whether that is because they don’t want to raise any flags by acting out of the ordinary or because the decision was an impulsive one that wasn’t planned, or because they didn’t mean to actually kill themselves, etc, I have no idea. My grandmother checked herself out of inpatient that day. We did not even know she was in the hospital. She said everything the doctors wanted to hear. She made a safety plan. Why? She wanted to get discharged because she had made up her mind that she was going to follow through on her decision to commit suicide.

So, in conclusion, I still can’t say either way if I think he chose to harm himself. I can say I feel like your idea as far as seeking treatment actually makes a lot of sense. It’s just the length of time since then that makes it harder to believe. But something nefarious very well may have happened before, during or after. I don’t know the laws on treatment centers and patient privacy rights. I only know the HIPAA side of things concerning medical care.

I really do appreciate you sharing your thoughts as I would have never considered the treatment theory. I think it’s important to put all our minds together. We all have unique experiences that mold us and shape who we are and how we think.

 

[Dnp2be]

Oh and @Aun, regarding the antidepressants, very good point. You are right, someone gave them to him. The answers to who, why, and what they know could be pivotal in solving this case. Now it’s possible they knew he was depressed but not the extent of it or maybe they thought he was stressed. Or really, they could have given them to him for any number of reasons. But good catch, definitely agree whoever that was may hold some answers to questions that have remained unanswered.

Do we know if all his roommates were interviewed and to what extent? I can’t help but to always think there’s a lot more information known to LE and maybe family than we think.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article250836279.html

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Carolina cold case: College student still missing since 2016 | 13newsnow.com

 

[Aun]

Oh and @Aun, ...
Do we know if all his roommates were interviewed and to what extent? I can’t help but to always think there’s a lot more information known to LE and maybe family than we think.

This is one of the frustrating elements of this case. The Boone police are not very forthcoming with small details like the results of tangent interviews. In my opinion they are not handling this like a missing person at all. As a side note, even the recent age progression photo that was released was baffling. Aside from the hair and complexion it's almost like the artist just phoned in the work. Let's start with the laryngeal prominence (adams apple) from smaller to larger yet no major changes in musculature around the face and neck. In most men the growth is at its most prominent during puberty, not in adulthood. An artist making a decision to increase the adams apple size after puberty is either anatomical guess work or a hint that Martin was a couple of years late into puberty. Moving late into puberty would certainly speak to physiological changes taking place in Martins life right about the time he went missing but can we trust the rendering was sketched with a late puberty in mind? I doubt it, based on other pictures of Martin he appeared to have reached puberty between late 2014 and 2015 where that neck prominence would be at its largest UNLESS there was an extreme loss of neck musculature that would expose more of the protrusion. Looking at the drawing, there was NOT a loss of mass or relevant change in body fat. So, it's doubtful his neck would look like that. Moving up the artist opted for a smooth chin ridge versus a protruding angle. I wonder why such a drastic chin change? That small change altered his entire face, basically reducing the space from the top of the head to the tip of the chin. In essence, completely changing his overall first glance appearance. Moving up from there, the artist seems to pay better attention to the lips. As we age, our lips begin to thin and that thinning is accurately depicted. Beyond that, the teeth are a complete mess for so many reasons I can't take the time to list. Just look at the rendering vs the comparative. The artist took some real liberal brush strokes with that one. Moving up from the mouth you have a train wreck of a nose. As we age, the tip of our nose begins to drop yet the rendering show the tip of his decidedly moving up. Moving out we see the ear lobes. Again, a complete fabrication. As we age our ear lobes sag and lengthen yet in the rendering the lobes are frustratingly smaller. in fact, the ear shape is entirely different. Moving back towards the face, the cheek junction does lengthen slightly which is what we would expect so there's that... Then we get to the dumpster fire of the drawing, his eyes. In every picture we have of Martin his eyes are narrow and in a couple of photos, the slight appearance of being asymmetrical. Seems like the artist ONLY worked from the single comparative photo that showed Martin's eyes being unbalanced because in the age progressed rendering they really went with that theme and dialed him in with disproportionate sizes. If you want to read beyond the proportions and into the tracking a little you might get the impression they were trying to indicate strabismus. Right or wrong it doesn't really matter because the size they drew his eyes is so far out in left field that nobody will bother to note the comparative difference. That said, one thing that does not happen between age 19 and 24 is a persons eyes growing to the extent the artist rendered them without some sort of thyroid disorder. We are not talking small changes in eye size here. The artist went way out to lunch to draw the eyes considerably larger while shrinking the head and face. Why? Did he or she know something about a medical condition Martin may have that would suggest these drastic changes in appearance would likely manifest in the few years since he went missing? I can't answer that but I do know, if the Boone police would have released more information earlier, or would release appropriate information now, we might be able to puzzle through where he might go. Instead, they withhold necessary data. What I can answer is this, either the artist is working from the context of a documented thyroid disorder, a documented mental health issue such as bi-polar disorder or schizophrenia or even a genetic autism. I mean literally, what happened to his ear? It seems more likely to me the artist just mailed that sketch in with a check for membership dues to the International Clown Society. In my not quite humble opinion, I can't see a way Martin's face makes the suggested changes in the given time without undocumented conditions or plastic surgery. So, the take away from all this is, 1. Don't expect Martin to look like that rendering. 2. Without proper information released from the Boone PD, people like me are left to speculate like this. One can glean much from very little input so the Boone PD, through their policy of not communicating pertinent details is hampering progress that could be made through crowd research and discussion.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

This is one of the frustrating elements of this case. The Boone police are not very forthcoming with small details like the results of tangent interviews. In my opinion they are not handling this like a missing person at all. As a side note, even the recent age progression photo that was released was baffling. Aside from the hair and complexion it's almost like the artist just phoned in the work. Let's start with the laryngeal prominence (adams apple) from smaller to larger yet no major changes in musculature around the face and neck. In most men the growth is at its most prominent during puberty, not in adulthood. An artist making a decision to increase the adams apple size after puberty is either anatomical guess work or a hint that Martin was a couple of years late into puberty. Moving late into puberty would certainly speak to physiological changes taking place in Martins life right about the time he went missing but can we trust the rendering was sketched with a late puberty in mind? I doubt it, based on other pictures of Martin he appeared to have reached puberty between late 2014 and 2015 where that neck prominence would be at its largest UNLESS there was an extreme loss of neck musculature that would expose more of the protrusion. Looking at the drawing, there was NOT a loss of mass or relevant change in body fat. So, it's doubtful his neck would look like that. Moving up the artist opted for a smooth chin ridge versus a protruding angle. I wonder why such a drastic chin change? That small change altered his entire face, basically reducing the space from the top of the head to the tip of the chin. In essence, completely changing his overall first glance appearance. Moving up from there, the artist seems to pay better attention to the lips. As we age, our lips begin to thin and that thinning is accurately depicted. Beyond that, the teeth are a complete mess for so many reasons I can't take the time to list. Just look at the rendering vs the comparative. The artist took some real liberal brush strokes with that one. Moving up from the mouth you have a train wreck of a nose. As we age, the tip of our nose begins to drop yet the rendering show the tip of his decidedly moving up. Moving out we see the ear lobes. Again, a complete fabrication. As we age our ear lobes sag and lengthen yet in the rendering the lobes are frustratingly smaller. in fact, the ear shape is entirely different. Moving back towards the face, the cheek junction does lengthen slightly which is what we would expect so there's that... Then we get to the dumpster fire of the drawing, his eyes. In every picture we have of Martin his eyes are narrow and in a couple of photos, the slight appearance of being asymmetrical. Seems like the artist ONLY worked from the single comparative photo that showed Martin's eyes being unbalanced because in the age progressed rendering they really went with that theme and dialed him in with disproportionate sizes. If you want to read beyond the proportions and into the tracking a little you might get the impression they were trying to indicate strabismus. Right or wrong it doesn't really matter because the size they drew his eyes is so far out in left field that nobody will bother to note the comparative difference. That said, one thing that does not happen between age 19 and 24 is a persons eyes growing to the extent the artist rendered them without some sort of thyroid disorder. We are not talking small changes in eye size here. The artist went way out to lunch to draw the eyes considerably larger while shrinking the head and face. Why? Did he or she know something about a medical condition Martin may have that would suggest these drastic changes in appearance would likely manifest in the few years since he went missing? I can't answer that but I do know, if the Boone police would have released more information earlier, or would release appropriate information now, we might be able to puzzle through where he might go. Instead, they withhold necessary data. What I can answer is this, either the artist is working from the context of a documented thyroid disorder, a documented mental health issue such as bi-polar disorder or schizophrenia or even a genetic autism. I mean literally, what happened to his ear? It seems more likely to me the artist just mailed that sketch in with a check for membership dues to the International Clown Society. In my not quite humble opinion, I can't see a way Martin's face makes the suggested changes in the given time without undocumented conditions or plastic surgery. So, the take away from all this is, 1. Don't expect Martin to look like that rendering. 2. Without proper information released from the Boone PD, people like me are left to speculate like this. One can glean much from very little input so the Boone PD, through their policy of not communicating pertinent details is hampering progress that could be made through crowd research and discussion.

Enjoyed this/ your post very much.
But it brought up a question in my mind: (Generally speaking, not about this case in particular) Do bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, or genetic autism change the likely appearance of aging compared to individuals without those diagnoses?

 

[Aun]

Enjoyed this/ your post very much.
But it brought up a question in my mind: (Generally speaking, not about this case in particular) Do bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, or genetic autism change the likely appearance of aging compared to individuals without those diagnoses?

Thanks for the question. I will preface the answer with the concept of associating dysmorphic facial issues with mental condition is broadly researched by academics though narrowly agreed upon. However, to quickly answer, yes, certain mental or genetic disorder does manifest in quantifiable physical markers. While genetic causes are more widely accepted, those suspected of being caused by mental disorder is the subject of great debate. If you are interested in the concept you can start with this study published by the National Institute of Health:

Frontonasal dysmorphology in bipolar disorder by 3D laser surface imaging and geometric morphometrics: Comparisons with schizophrenia

It's a long read that explores both sides of the results. Here's a snippet.

"While the present findings inform on but cannot in themselves resolve the conundrum of the “Kraepelinian dichotomy” (see Section 1. Introduction; Jablensky, 1999; Maier et al., 2006; Ivleva et al., 2008; Fischer and Carpenter, 2009), they indicate that these two diagnostic categories are characterized by some common frontonasal dysmorphology and, presumptively, by some common process of cerebral–facial dysmorphogenesis. Early developmental perturbation in bipolar disorder and its pathobiological relationship to schizophrenia may be illuminated by greater understanding of the genetic and epigenetic regulation of midline morphogenesis of the frontonasal prominence and the clinical correlates of dysmorphology."

When you take into consideration that certain mental diagnosis can have it's genesis in a genetic predisposition, the concept of mental disorder causing repeatable facial changes becomes as acceptable as recognizing conditions such as down syndrome or certain types of autism can lead to dysmorphic changes.

Here's one from Science Direct. Again, a very long and tedious read but provides additional background. Reading this study and moving further into similar studies you will find a series of minor physical abnormalities associated with Schizophrenia and Bipolar disorder.

Minor Physical Anomalies in Bipolar Disorder - ScienceDirect

This is NOT to say I have any knowledge or even believe Martin might be suffering from either condition, I only discuss this because a number of the physical characteristics the artist included in the rendering seem consistent with some of the physical changes mentioned in the studies and since the overall appearance of the rendering seems to go well out of its way to change Martins basic appearance, I speculate that perhaps the artist may have been working with knowledge about Martins condition that has not been released to the public by his family or the Boone PD.

I know this is likely more of a wall of text than the answer you were looking for but hopefully, someone in here I did address the question with an acceptable reply.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

@Aun Thanks for the links. I will read them.

Just looking at the age-progression in this case, I speculate the person who did the age progression put much less thought into than you, and they ultilized some software defaults without without truly altering them to James specifically. To me, it looks like they just used a computer program and didn't spend many hours OR need more training/ experience OR else the software itself is not too great and is too limiting no matter the user.

Apologies to the "artist" if I'm wrong; I am the first to admit I don't know a thing about the process and am just a layperson.

 

[BlkMtnGirl]

This is one of the frustrating elements of this case. The Boone police are not very forthcoming with small details like the results of tangent interviews. In my opinion they are not handling this like a missing person at all. As a side note, even the recent age progression photo that was released was baffling. Aside from the hair and complexion it's almost like the artist just phoned in the work. Let's start with the laryngeal prominence (adams apple) from smaller to larger yet no major changes in musculature around the face and neck. In most men the growth is at its most prominent during puberty, not in adulthood. An artist making a decision to increase the adams apple size after puberty is either anatomical guess work or a hint that Martin was a couple of years late into puberty. Moving late into puberty would certainly speak to physiological changes taking place in Martins life right about the time he went missing but can we trust the rendering was sketched with a late puberty in mind? I doubt it, based on other pictures of Martin he appeared to have reached puberty between late 2014 and 2015 where that neck prominence would be at its largest UNLESS there was an extreme loss of neck musculature that would expose more of the protrusion. Looking at the drawing, there was NOT a loss of mass or relevant change in body fat. So, it's doubtful his neck would look like that. Moving up the artist opted for a smooth chin ridge versus a protruding angle. I wonder why such a drastic chin change? That small change altered his entire face, basically reducing the space from the top of the head to the tip of the chin. In essence, completely changing his overall first glance appearance. Moving up from there, the artist seems to pay better attention to the lips. As we age, our lips begin to thin and that thinning is accurately depicted. Beyond that, the teeth are a complete mess for so many reasons I can't take the time to list. Just look at the rendering vs the comparative. The artist took some real liberal brush strokes with that one. Moving up from the mouth you have a train wreck of a nose. As we age, the tip of our nose begins to drop yet the rendering show the tip of his decidedly moving up. Moving out we see the ear lobes. Again, a complete fabrication. As we age our ear lobes sag and lengthen yet in the rendering the lobes are frustratingly smaller. in fact, the ear shape is entirely different. Moving back towards the face, the cheek junction does lengthen slightly which is what we would expect so there's that... Then we get to the dumpster fire of the drawing, his eyes. In every picture we have of Martin his eyes are narrow and in a couple of photos, the slight appearance of being asymmetrical. Seems like the artist ONLY worked from the single comparative photo that showed Martin's eyes being unbalanced because in the age progressed rendering they really went with that theme and dialed him in with disproportionate sizes. If you want to read beyond the proportions and into the tracking a little you might get the impression they were trying to indicate strabismus. Right or wrong it doesn't really matter because the size they drew his eyes is so far out in left field that nobody will bother to note the comparative difference. That said, one thing that does not happen between age 19 and 24 is a persons eyes growing to the extent the artist rendered them without some sort of thyroid disorder. We are not talking small changes in eye size here. The artist went way out to lunch to draw the eyes considerably larger while shrinking the head and face. Why? Did he or she know something about a medical condition Martin may have that would suggest these drastic changes in appearance would likely manifest in the few years since he went missing? I can't answer that but I do know, if the Boone police would have released more information earlier, or would release appropriate information now, we might be able to puzzle through where he might go. Instead, they withhold necessary data. What I can answer is this, either the artist is working from the context of a documented thyroid disorder, a documented mental health issue such as bi-polar disorder or schizophrenia or even a genetic autism. I mean literally, what happened to his ear? It seems more likely to me the artist just mailed that sketch in with a check for membership dues to the International Clown Society. In my not quite humble opinion, I can't see a way Martin's face makes the suggested changes in the given time without undocumented conditions or plastic surgery. So, the take away from all this is, 1. Don't expect Martin to look like that rendering. 2. Without proper information released from the Boone PD, people like me are left to speculate like this. One can glean much from very little input so the Boone PD, through their policy of not communicating pertinent details is hampering progress that could be made through crowd research and discussion.

Wow. That's a very thoughtful post, and you only have a few posts, so I'm wondering if you have a particular interest in Martin's case. And, since you obviously have a lot of specialized knowledge in this field, would you/could you give it a go with an age progression photo?

I happened to visit Boone this weekend and of course thought of Martin. When I think of him, I gravitate toward the Price Park area when I think of him, specifically the little Sims pond that's nearby, for no reason whatsoever. I have only explored that trail once, so I have no idea how far it goes up into the woods. Sorry, this is a tangent, and just my musings.

 

[Aun]

Well, like I said with lack of official information I present additional speculation. In summary: In 2020 Feds broke up a large scale multi campus drug ring which included at least 2 defendants from App State campus fraternities. Reading through the testimony and multiple articles you find in some cases the drug dealing was occurring on campuses at least as early as 2016. Drugs included everything from Marijuana to Xanax to Cocaine and beyond. This was a large scale multi year, multi state operation using fraternities to push their drugs. Some of the quantities include purchases of 100o's of lbs. of marijuana, 5 keys of cocaine, 2 a week in some places reporting from as early as 2016 until they were caught and prosecuted. If one does some simple math on the ages of some of the defendants that puts them as potentially students on campus with Martin at the same time and dealing drugs and engaged in fraternity memberships. Take a look.

21 arrested in ‘large scale drug ring’ that funneled more than $1.5M worth of drugs through N.C. colleges

You might also consider, in a previous point I noted two arrests and case numbers for James Martin within days of each other but only one case is ever discussed. The DWI. Now, I am left to speculate that 2nd arrest/case number. Reading further into the story you find immediately after the App State defendants are named, the reporter discusses there is a cooperating witness. Speculation can run wild here. If Martin was such a cooperating witness which I am not proposing, I do not think the police would have searched so diligently for him the first few days but one does wonder how that 2nd arrest may play out once the details are finally released. Conversely, Martin was found to have an ample supply of anti depressant pills and if a legitimate prescriber or a legitimate supplier of samples has not been found well, based on the information contained in the arrest news, we can assume Martin could have been getting them from one of these frat suppliers. Dubious at best but the facts line up and if not coincidence, then something tangible to look at.

If anything, I think the tangent interviews of the fraternity brothers should be readdressed and confirmed with backgrounds run on all of them who gave statements previously.

1. Is it possible Martin is a cooperating witness?
2. Is it possible the comment Martin said to his girlfriend "Nobody can help me" was alluding to his involvement in some way with illegal drug purchases that he couldn't pay back?
3. Conversely, were Martin's fingerprints found on the pill packs or bottles of anti depressants? Additionally, was chemical analysis used to determine the formula and the manufacturer AND chain of custody of the drugs?

We keep hearing Boone police tell us nothing comes of any of this. None of it pans out etc. I just don't accept that. Every factory makes controlled drugs from controlled ingredients and all processes slightly different so that you take a blood pressure pill today and they find it to be poisonous and find additional pills, they can trace that pill based on it's analysis from the manufacturer and the original paperwork with chain of custody. If it wasn't then, it should be followed now and chased down to the end of the Earth to find who signed for it last. They will argue "there were no lot numbers" or "the lot numbers were a dead end" Nope, ask the DEA to analyze it for origination. Easy stuff.

In truth, I think the power of James Martin Roberts case is the fact nothing adds up. We all know there is a missing factor to the story that is not being made public. Whether it be the "entire" contents of the note or something more reality bending like a multi state, multi campus drug ring to run down. Whatever that missing factor is, is why we are here. Nothing adds up in this case. This is just not what it seems. There is something more going on.

Let's do this.

Re-interview the fraternity brothers
Re-interview Martin's room mates
Re-interview Martin's friends
Re-interview the two women who reported him walking outside of town near the Winkler Creek Road / Flannery and Payne Branch crossing. At the very least, re-interview these ladies with zeal because they represent only 3 options. 1. Either they were correct and every home in that area should be the subject of cadaver dog parties. 2. They were wrong, BOTH coincidentally identifying the wrong guy independently of each other at the same location. Making their statements either true and just bad luck (if you believe in coincidences) or conspired. In which case, they should be pressed rigorously. And 3. Purposefully provided an alibi for Martin or someone who wanted Martin spotted someone other than were he really was.

Conversely, I want to talk to the restaurant owner friend of the family who hired Martin during the summer prior to heading back to school.
Why? Because he obviously admired Martin greatly. Went out of his way to tell the ID crew that Martin was mature well beyond his peers. And because Martins mom used the word groomed as in "Martin was being groomed for management" In the history of words the word "groomed" has taken on a much more sinister role in lexicon. I just don't like hearing it when its used to describe what a grown man is doing to an impressionable young man. Might just be a bad choice of words but it does make one wonder about that relationship and should it be scrutinized further.

Anyway, enough speculating for tonight. This would be a wonderful ending should we find Martin left suddenly for protection and remains so protected until the finality of the drug ring prosecutions. However, it could also be a bad ending, in that he had nothing to do with any of that, perhaps just purchased some anti depressants and couldn't pay them back.. We are no closer today than yesterday but one thing I am sure of- nobody believed Martin was suicidal. Nobody close to him. All hints lead to Martin being in something over his head and couldn't be helped with. Again, let's take a step back and ask ourselves.. Does ANYONE just go out on the street and buy antidepressants? I mean do depressed people decide they want to go buy some anti depressants on a corner prior to a mental health professional telling them they needed some? That much just doesn't make any sense and until it does, EVERY mental health professional that was anywhere near Boone or Martins home town should be looked at AND every subsequent drug bust since 2016 with antidepressants seized should be chemically compared to those Martin had. C'mon Boone PD. You have evidence from numerous arrests. Feds have evidence, everyone has evidence now chemically compare other anti depressants to Martins and lets get this chain of custody thing rolling.

 

[Aun]

Wow. That's a very thoughtful post, and you only have a few posts, so I'm wondering if you have a particular interest in Martin's case. And, since you obviously have a lot of specialized knowledge in this field, would you/could you give it a go with an age progression photo?

I happened to visit Boone this weekend and of course thought of Martin. When I think of him, I gravitate toward the Price Park area when I think of him, specifically the little Sims pond that's nearby, for no reason whatsoever. I have only explored that trail once, so I have no idea how far it goes up into the woods. Sorry, this is a tangent, and just my musings.

Hi, thanks for the reply. Yes, I have a great interest in this case and its mainly because there is something more going on here than what adds up into the case facts as we know them but also because when I see Martin, I see a good person. A good kid who was completely taken advantage of and caught up in the complexities of life long before he should have been. Moreover, his family hurts, you can hear it in their voices, see it in their eyes, feel it in the demeanor and testify to it by their tears. They love Martin. As for his parents, estranged or not, they hurt so deeply they will never recover without closure so if Martin truly is no longer with us, whomever did it, did it to his family just the same and that's the kind of person or people that need to be caught.

 

[Curious_in_NC]

Hi, thanks for the reply. Yes, I have a great interest in this case and its mainly because there is something more going on here than what adds up into the case facts as we know them but also because when I see Martin, I see a good person. A good kid who was completely taken advantage of and caught up in the complexities of life long before he should have been. Moreover, his family hurts, you can hear it in their voices, see it in their eyes, feel it in the demeanor and testify to it by their tears. They love Martin. As for his parents, estranged or not, they hurt so deeply they will never recover without closure so if Martin truly is no longer with us, whomever did it, did it to his family just the same and that's the kind of person or people that need to be caught.

Interesting. Even though I live near two of the universities, I somehow missed seeing this in the news when it was reported. As you say, the ages of several of the students or former students are close to what Martin's current age would be now so it's possible he may have known one or two of them, or maybe even got the antidepressants from someone involved with that group. Most of their activities, however, seem to have been between 2017 and 2020, after Martin's disappearance. So, unless he was involved in some very early lead investigation, it seems unlikely he could have been one of the cooperating witnesses just due to the timing. But your suggestion he was somehow involved with something like this might explain some of the gaps in information from LE.

I'm also puzzled by the charges: "use of a communication facility to facilitate a drug felony". Were they advertising drugs on college radio? That sounds way too over the top, even for a bunch of cocky frat brothers.

@Aun, you seem to have dived really deeply into this case and provided us with some interesting new questions and tangents. Thanks. I hope there's some answers soon.

 

[Aun]

In an online article reported by JENNY DRABBLE Special to the News & Record on May 2, 2021 via:
A ‘heartbreaking’ mystery: Family holds out hope five years after Boone student goes missing; new age-progressed photo released

Reporter Drabble titles her article:

"No new leads"

and writes:

"It’s been five years since Martin Roberts disappeared, but the exhaustive investigation has yielded more questions than answers.

Among them: Where did he go after being captured on bus surveillance footage around noon? Where was he in the unaccounted periods of time leading up to his disappearance? Why did he only appear to pack frozen dinners with him when he left his apartment that day?"

I think the title is interesting. "No new leads" yet the article suggests Martin packed frozen dinners with him when he left the apartment that day. If this golden nugget of a lead can be confirmed then we can put to bed, once and for all any idea he might have been suicidal.

Maybe I've just been too focused on the where and overlooked this specificity until now. Prior to reading this I was working from the data noted in multiple places that Martin had purchased "groceries" which were not found at his apartment. We have asked to see store copies of the receipts for these groceries but it would appear it either doesn't exist or is too central to the investigation to be released to the public. If this is true, then how is Drabble able to provide specific detail as to what he packed? Whatever the reason, she did provide detail and it says quite a bit about what his expected destination.

In a previous message we discussed the possibility he might have enrolled in not for profit counseling program such as a church might provide which required he bring his own "snacks" or "food" or he might have had a meeting arranged where he would be checking into a hotel. Either way, both scenarios provide the exposure to a Microwave that he would need to prepare his frozen dinners. Conversely, if you draw a line from where he was last spotted, by a friend, no less, at "Flannery Fork" and "Payne Branch Road" to Trout lake and check every home or cabin along that tangent that can be proven to have electricity at the time he went missing. Even if he intended on staying at an abandoned home or cabin, he would still need electricity to prepare the meals. Conversely, we might be able to also relay on the idea he expected to have access to refrigeration to store his frozen dinners. Simply stated. "If he knew he didn't have electricity, a microwave and a freezer why would he have relied on this type of food on his trip?" He wouldn't. What's more, does a suicidal young adult purchase and pack frozen dinners if he expected he wouldn't survive the day? No, he wouldn't.

If this story by Jenny Drabble is factual, then we can move beyond self harm theories. The sighting at Flannery Fork and Payne Branch was reported by a friend so as much as it seems out of place for an in-town scenario, we have to temper our theories with the possibility this was an actual sighting. Where was he going? Hiking on his own? it's all speculation, but if we were to speculate we might consider a destination at a home in that area. A look at satellite maps between Apple, Microsoft and Google mapping data taken at different times shows numerous ponds on properties South West of that intersection that have had varying degrees of overgrowth so I wonder if anyone has looked in those areas. Are there any licensed counselors living along that tangent or had been living out that way that Martin might have met as a condition of his DUI arrest? Since we are still speculating, let's just assume Martin answered an advertisement about a traveling sales job or a delivery job and perhaps was just a bit naïve enough to meet his possible employers out at the "Blowing Rock" NCDOT, rest area. The first nexus point where roads and 221 and Blueridge Parkway cross paths and is a quick skip to 321. Sure would be a convenient "Hey, we are passing through Blowing Rock, just south of Boone this weekend, we can pick you up at the rest stop there. We don't have time to make it into Boone but if you meet us there, we can bring you along and show you the ropes. Why would they meet him there instead of Boone? Camera's. to ensure their vehicle was never caught on a camera near Boone. The same scenario works for meeting a truck driver who he expected to give him a ride somewhere...

So, no new leads? Uh... plenty of leads from this nugget of information. Hopefully during the early days of the investigation and seeing Martin was heading towards the general direction of the rest area, the Boone PD secured video of any gas station along the roadways coming out of nearby towns that pass by the NCDOT, area. It's a long shot but if someone was enough to soft abduct Martin using this sort of pretext, then they might fill up at the last convenient gas station along the route from their origination to the rest area to ensure they won't have to make another stop for as long as possible.

Can anyone confirm what Drabble states in the article about "Frozen Dinners?"

 

[BlkMtnGirl]

[snip]
Can anyone confirm what Drabble states in the article about "Frozen Dinners?"

Thanks so much for this. That's the first I've ever heard of frozen dinners. That is super curious. I don't think it can completely rule out self harm because we've seen stranger things, such as someone who eats his lunch at work and then leaves work to jump off a bridge. However, I will say it does put self-harm waaay further down my list. Where are you, Martin?

 

[ChatteringBirds]

we've seen stranger things, such as someone who eats his lunch at work and then leaves work to jump off a bridge.

Quote RSBM.
But a lot of people who take their lives go about their normal routine until the end...

 

[Aun]

My thinking about the frozen dinners vs the other case described is in the detail of events as they happened.

In the case of Martin, self harm is suspected by some because he left a note about disappointment and going away. He then left his electronics, he left antidepressants, and then he chose to leave. He had a plan.

Specifically, he left underdressed for an overnight stay in the wilderness and he was carrying food that required specific preparation in a microwave. If he was planning on taking a hike, he chose the wrong food. If he was planning on self harm but decided to bring food with him as he walked along the Parkway, lost in the thought of his final decisions, he took the wrong food. If he was planning on all this ahead of staging the note and items in the room, i.e. when he was shopping, he chose the wrong food from the beginning. The frozen dinners means he was preparing for a specific destination where he would have access to a microwave. Maybe at some point beyond that, beyond the life of the provisions he carried, maybe he had a plan for self harm but at least when he left his apartment he had a destination where he expected to stay for a period of time and before we can start thinking self harm, we need to find that destination.

In the scenario mentioned, a man goes to work, eats lunch then is overcome by depression and jumps from a bridge. Maybe he left a note detailing his intentions, maybe he made the decision he would see his colleagues one last time before committing to the act. Either way, when he left, his intention may have been self harm but not before he made his way to an alternate location first (work).

In Martin's case, his choice of food clearly indicates he had a destination with a microwave. His choice of clothes indicates he would not be exposed to the outdoors over night. His choice of footwear might suggest he was not intending on any major trekking else he would wear hiking boots (if he had them). The choice to leave electronics, indicates he did not want to be tracked and wasn't worried what they might find about his motives by searching through the devices. He left a note, though details are withheld, suggest he had some sort of disappointment issues and was intending to be gone a while. As I understand it, it does not suggest self harm. He left his wallet but not his ID, indicating his destination might have required proof of identity to check in to a place or perhaps pick up a transportation ticket. Conversely, if he took the ID with him to help in identifying his body, he certainly wasn't planning on a water borne event which would ruin said ID. Nothing screams self harm to me. Everything points to him having a destination where he would be a while. A destination that required his ID and would have access to a microwave. If the microwave was not a factor then his decision to purchase the food came before the decision to leave and he just grabbed whatever food he could get his hands on when leaving that morning which, to me, is not the action of someone who didn't intend on living long enough to eat it. So, for me he either planned on an overnight stay in a hotel or a home where he could prepare his food, or perhaps a few days on the road as a passenger or even a rehab type setting.

Now let's look at the antidepressants. Was his hairbrush or toothbrush screened for signs of him actually taking the antidepressants?

The presence of therapeutic drugs in the hair of psychiatric patients was investigated, and the method for simultaneous determination of antidepressant and antipsychotic drugs by GC/NPD and GC/MS was also established. Eight different psychotroic drugs were detected from the hair of 32 subjects, and chlorpromazine and clozapine concentrations in the hair were found to be dependent on the dosage and the correlation coefficients were 0.8047 (P < 0.001, n = 16) and 0.7097 (P < 0.001, n = 16) respectively. Segmental analysis demonstrated that there was a correlation between the subject's drug exposure history and the distribution of drug along the hair shaft.

I'm assuming the investigators conducted the screening to identify if Martin was actually taking the drugs they found. Likewise, I'm going to assume the investigators asked his room mates to supply their own hair sample to rule them out as being the prescription owner.

Were Martin's prints found on the container/blister packs holding the drugs?

Without this information we have to give an equal chance at the drugs being placed in his room to bolster the depression angle vs actually being part of Martin's regime.

He dressed light, with a windbreaker. Carried a backpack, easy shorts, easy sneakers, didn't take a bus or an Uber to get where he wanted to go. He walked and aside from the bus footage, somehow avoided all traffic and surveillance camera's. Was that by design or just by luck of the draw? Certainly there were homes and businesses that captured something. No? OK, so by luck of the draw he is not captured by video though was spotted, by two different friends, as he walked outside of town.

The way I see it. The frozen dinners removes so many options for him. We are not talking snacks like granola bars you can eat out on the trail, we are talking about dinners requiring a specific venue to prepare. Dinners that were chosen during his "shopping" trip in preparation for his eventuality.

When he left that morning, it's likely his destination had amenities and if you need amenities, I do not believe the first thing on your mind is self harm. At best, he walked away though circumstances suggest someone has helped.

Hotels, homes, cabins, RV's and semi trucks have microwaves. Which ones also require an ID to gain access? If we arrive at hotels being the destination then we also have to account for the fact that microwaves are not standard at all hotels though are prolifically distributed so is it also safe to assume Martin had some forward knowledge of the hotel room amenities since he was confident he could use the Microwave? So, If we go with this hotel angle, he either had forward contact with the venue or he had the help of someone who told him what to bring.

For me, "frozen dinners" says much more about his destination than trail mix or a granola bar and combined with the other items we have learned, seems to point he had am immediate destination, other than self harm, in mind.

 

[Aun]

Thanks so much for this. That's the first I've ever heard of frozen dinners. That is super curious. I don't think it can completely rule out self harm because we've seen stranger things, such as someone who eats his lunch at work and then leaves work to jump off a bridge. However, I will say it does put self-harm waaay further down my list. Where are you, Martin?

I hear you and agree, we can't always expect someone to do or not do what is logical when they are depressed or otherwise impaired but I do think Martin's behavior in the days leading up to the morning he disappeared right down to the food he took with him were part of a plan. Whether the plan was by his own design, or someone else's we can't know that yet. Perhaps he elicited help from someone or a group of someone's who specialize in skipping. Perhaps he was lured by the promise of work... The longer this goes without someone, somewhere seeing him, without finding him deceased or without him reaching out and making contact, just adds to the mystery.

 

[Aun]

Quote RSBM.
But a lot of people who take their lives go about their normal routine until the end...

You are completely right. Many just spontaneously carry out their intentions with no forewarning while others think often about it but otherwise do not show their intentions right up to the end. That said, Martin planned something the morning he left and he has been highly successful in not being found, dead or alive.