GUILTY NC - Jason Corbett, 39, murdered in his Wallburg home, 2 Aug 2015 #2

[kittythehare]

Maybe the police figured that things should be knocked over or pushed out of place if two or three adults are fighting in a furnished room. If there was no sign of a struggle or fight apart from the body on the floor, it would appear that the "donnybrook" began and ended very quickly. The police would see a lot of crime scenes, so it is the sort of thing they would judge very quickly... There would be crime scene photos to show what the room looked like, so the police would have to explain in court why they came to that conclusion based on those images.

well, certainly a few 'vases would likely have hit the wall.. amlost as though they entered a very perfect room with a nightmarish sight in one tiny place..or it had been pre-cleaned prior to their arrival.? worth exploring the possibilities here more deeply,methinks

 

[Electric Sheep]

That's possible of course but how likely is it that he had a history of violence, based on the 'evidence' we have seen to date. We don't know the children's experience of family life. Violence on the part of tm and mm is undeniable. How will the defense bolster their claims of emotional and physical abuse I wonder?

We shall have to wait till the trial to see. I just am not down with believing everything one side says , while calling the other sides liars on all they say. Hearsay is hearsay, not necessarily wrong, but not to be taken as gospel.

 

[Kerryann]

We shall have to wait till the trial to see. I just am not down with believing everything one side says , while calling the other sides liars on all they say. Hearsay is hearsay, not necessarily wrong, but not to be taken as gospel.

I am interested in looking at any evidence that Jason was abusive since clearly this will be the line of defense. So far I have not come across any, hearsay or otherwise, it will be interesting to see what evidence is produced to support this.

 

[Kerryann]

We shall have to wait till the trial to see. I just am not down with believing everything one side says , while calling the other sides liars on all they say. Hearsay is hearsay, not necessarily wrong, but not to be taken as gospel.

Also, what lies have the martens family been accused of? This is a genuine question, I am curious to know. Thank you!

 

[kittythehare]

We shall have to wait till the trial to see. I just am not down with believing everything one side says , while calling the other sides liars on all they say. Hearsay is hearsay, not necessarily wrong, but not to be taken as gospel.

We are not calling them liars, we are pointing out inconsistencies. Sworn testimony has to have more credence that hearsay, eye witness testimony even more, I would imagine, all we have are newspaper reports and a few legal documents that have been posted online. To obtain more info, we need to send in FOI requests. I am unaware of the laws regarding FOI from outside the country to third parties. It may be a no no. FOI requests will be another long drawn out process, taking months, perhaps.
I dont believe we can prove pre-meditation, because whereas they may have thought longingly about it, the murder was not carried out in any kind of a clever fashion.
But I believe it may well have had a turning point when a conscious decision may have been taken to take the beating to the next level, death.
I think at that point, both were equally insane.
so that would be the more serious charge.
the sequence of the blows and the real time of death should tell a lot.
that information will not be available until the trial.
There is also a possibility that one of the two tried to stop the other taking the final step and failed..because their enragement was too great and they could not stop.

 

[Electric Sheep]

Also, what lies have the martens family been accused of? This is a genuine question, I am curious to know. Thank you!

Take a read through the whole thread, you will find plenty.

 

[Kerryann]

Take a read through the whole thread, you will find plenty.

Sorry to be pedantic but can you show me on instance of where the martens have been accused of lying and this was subsequently shown to have not been the case. I have read the entire thread. Thank you.

 

[Electric Sheep]

Sorry to be pedantic but can you show me on instance of where the martens have been accused of lying and this was subsequently shown to have not been the case. I have read the entire thread. Thank you.

Post 140 in this thread. Of many.

 

[Kerryann]

Post 140 in this thread. Of many.

Thanks, where was the lie about the Martens in this post exactly? I have read a lot about this case and am curious to know more. Especially about what lies are told by either side.

 

[Dumbfounded2]

Hi everyone. First time poster here on this topic. After reading much of the thread I get the impression that there is a general feeling that this is clear cut, I.e. Overkill based on him moving to Ireland with the kids and she freaking out and her Dad intervened. But there are a lot of things that don't add up for me. <modsnip> There is no doubt it wasn't a happy marriage but that is not motive enough for murder. The real clue for me is the autopsy.....the finger injuries....if you were trying to kill someone why strike their fingers? The hand injuries were to the back of his hands, defence injuries are usually to the palm of the hands. Repeatedly striking the fingers implies to me someone trying to get him to release his grip on something....the middle finger had a number of bruises, if someone was choking me I'd pull at his fingers to get the hand to release....with my free hand I'd pick up whatever was on a bed side locker and strike him on the face ( fracture nose). Blood was also found under his nails and toenails which happens when you get your fingers caught in a door, so someone was hitting those fingers pretty hard. Most of the torso injuries are abrasions (scratches) which would match someone being pinned down scratching him to get him off. He was 160 lbs heavier than her. Plus autopsy removed pulled hair, whose hair was it? Either he pulled out his own hair ( highly unlikely) or it was hers? If TM came into the room, saw her pinned to the bed with naked JC choking her, he hits him on the hands, hits the fingers, hits the legs, this does not get the man off her, then strikes twice at close range to the head....could a man 25 years younger, 100lbs lighter been able to move him without such force? I don't know. I'm playing devils advocate here as most of the comments thus far haven't mentioned the very strange hand/finger injuries. Why didn't he fight back? If your life is in danger the body kicks into fight or flight mode; he did neither. Is that because he was choking her? A San Diego study of 600 strangulation victims showed 50% showed no visible signs of injury. The levels of drug in his system would not have rendered a man of his size unconscious. That drug however can be dangerous when mixed even with low levels of alcohol, clinical trials showing patients reporting mood swings and erratic behaviour including inexplicable rages. And then the kids testimony, defence are particularly keen on getting the Children's Services reports on what the children had to say. Perhaps they witnessed something earlier in the day, maybe they mentioned pervious rows that were had. In one of Mollys posts she references New Years Eve two years ago where she says she 'tries not to remember the bad things of that night'...whatever that means. I'm swaying more towards the involuntary manslaughter charge, a lot of the motive 'evidence' is circumstantial statements given by the Irish inlaws in a custody battle, there have been no impartial witnesses so far that have backed their claims ( teachers, neighbours etc). Maybe she was a lot of things, but murderer? And the Dad taking the rap? I'm not yet convinced. We have heard a very one sided version from the DA and have yet to hear the defences claims. I think they will be pretty explosive. So any thoughts on the pulled hair and finger/hand injuries id be interested in hearing them. The victim of course did not deserve to loose his life and don't mean to sound callous or insensitive. Just trying to flip this story to the other side and see if any of their claims do stand up especially in the autopsy report.

Welcome Truthseeker79! Many truth seekers here. So you are in excellent company!

[FONT=&amp]Was Jason shielding himself from the blows by exposing the backs of his hands? In other words, are the palms of his hands next to his face or on the side or back of his head exposing the back of his hands in a desperate attempt to protect himself from the numerous blows? If so, it could explain why the backs of his hands might have been injured. How could Jason protect his head from the side, back and frontal head blows from an aluminum baseball bat and landscape paver? If I am reviewing Jason’s autopsy report correctly, it appears that his left ring finger might have had the largest contusion when compared to the other fingers. If so, could it be symbolic that his left finger, his wedding band finger, had the most damage? [/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Is it possible that Jason did not fight back because the first blow was from behind or side with an aluminum baseball bat that cause utter devastation? WARNING: VERY GRAPHIC and based on Jason’s autopsy report, he was hit so hard that his skull base was separated in half. Please see Jason’s autopsy report, which states “Extensive skull fractures with hinge fracture of skull base.” Then please refer to http://www.forensicmed.co.uk/pathology/head-injury/skull-fracture/: “‘Hinge’ fractures occur when the linear fracture passes across the middle cranial fossa, separating the skull base into 2 halves, and may be caused by a heavy blow to the side of the head (e.g. in motorcycle accidents).” [/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
Did the dad take the rap when he admitted he hit Jason in the head with the baseball bat during the 911 call? Isn’t it so strange that MM or TM had no marks although Jason’s autopsy report shows horrific injuries? Based on the autopsy report alone, would one expect those involved in the “donnybrook” to have at least one mark somewhere? [/FONT]
· [FONT=&amp]Hear chilling 911 call where ex-FBI agent dad-in-law of tragic Jason Corbett says 'I may have killed him' [/FONT]
· [FONT=&amp]EXCLUSIVE: 'He's bleeding all over. I may have killed him.' Ex-FBI agent's 911 call after he hit son-in-law with baseball bat 'to save model daughter' - but police found no marks and charged them both with murder[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
Is the pulled hair on Jason’s autopsy report most likely Jason’s hair, not MM’s or TM’s hair, based on this Forensic Pathology link? http://www.forensicpathologyonline.com/e-book/autopsy: See # 7. The external examination, focusing on a search for external evidence of injury is, in most cases, the most important portion of the autopsy:’ Then see (xi): … “Pull, do not cut, 20 representative head hairs and save them as hair may also be useful for detecting some drugs and poisons;” Would additional drug testing detect any other drugs or poisons that might explain why Jason was unable to defend himself?[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
Does Jason’s autopsy report confirm or refute claims of self-dense? Could a single blow to the head, knees or arm with an aluminum baseball bat have been sufficient to stop any alleged DV? [/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]Please see the reference below. Did “ice team” mean “ice cream”? If so, did MM really take the children for ice cream the day after their father was killed? If so, did anyone confirm this with the ice cream vendor?
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Corbetts Reject ‘deluded propaganda' of Martens family[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]August 31, 2015
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]http://www.limerickpost.ie/2015/08/31/corbetts-reject-deluded-propaganda-of-martens-family/[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]In the lengthy statement, Mr. Corbett revealed that “Molly Martens took my brothers children for ice team the day after Jason was killed. Most normal loving caring people would find this unusual.”[/FONT]

 

[Truthalways]

Hi everyone. First time poster here on this topic. After reading much of the thread I get the impression that there is a general feeling that this is clear cut, I.e. Overkill based on him moving to Ireland with the kids and she freaking out and her Dad intervened. But there are a lot of things that don't add up for me. <modsnip> There is no doubt it wasn't a happy marriage but that is not motive enough for murder. The real clue for me is the autopsy.....the finger injuries....if you were trying to kill someone why strike their fingers? The hand injuries were to the back of his hands, defence injuries are usually to the palm of the hands. Repeatedly striking the fingers implies to me someone trying to get him to release his grip on something....the middle finger had a number of bruises, if someone was choking me I'd pull at his fingers to get the hand to release....with my free hand I'd pick up whatever was on a bed side locker and strike him on the face ( fracture nose). Blood was also found under his nails and toenails which happens when you get your fingers caught in a door, so someone was hitting those fingers pretty hard. Most of the torso injuries are abrasions (scratches) which would match someone being pinned down scratching him to get him off. He was 160 lbs heavier than her. Plus autopsy removed pulled hair, whose hair was it? Either he pulled out his own hair ( highly unlikely) or it was hers? If TM came into the room, saw her pinned to the bed with naked JC choking her, he hits him on the hands, hits the fingers, hits the legs, this does not get the man off her, then strikes twice at close range to the head....could a man 25 years younger, 100lbs lighter been able to move him without such force? I don't know. I'm playing devils advocate here as most of the comments thus far haven't mentioned the very strange hand/finger injuries. Why didn't he fight back? If your life is in danger the body kicks into fight or flight mode; he did neither. Is that because he was choking her? A San Diego study of 600 strangulation victims showed 50% showed no visible signs of injury. The levels of drug in his system would not have rendered a man of his size unconscious. That drug however can be dangerous when mixed even with low levels of alcohol, clinical trials showing patients reporting mood swings and erratic behaviour including inexplicable rages. And then the kids testimony, defence are particularly keen on getting the Children's Services reports on what the children had to say. Perhaps they witnessed something earlier in the day, maybe they mentioned pervious rows that were had. In one of Mollys posts she references New Years Eve two years ago where she says she 'tries not to remember the bad things of that night'...whatever that means. I'm swaying more towards the involuntary manslaughter charge, a lot of the motive 'evidence' is circumstantial statements given by the Irish inlaws in a custody battle, there have been no impartial witnesses so far that have backed their claims ( teachers, neighbours etc). Maybe she was a lot of things, but murderer? And the Dad taking the rap? I'm not yet convinced. We have heard a very one sided version from the DA and have yet to hear the defences claims. I think they will be pretty explosive. So any thoughts on the pulled hair and finger/hand injuries id be interested in hearing them. The victim of course did not deserve to loose his life and don't mean to sound callous or insensitive. Just trying to flip this story to the other side and see if any of their claims do stand up especially in the autopsy report.

There is no evidence as yet to suggest The alleged choking occurred on the bed? Or anywhere else. As for picking up something off a locker and breaking his nose with it in my opinion if your being choked your breathing restricted your body getting weak your smaller frame under a larger male it would be quite a coincidence number 1 that you would have a paving brick on your locker and even more of a miracle in my opinion that you just so happened to be beside the said locker and have the energy being this small framed vulnerable lady to pick up the brick and break the heavy set alleged violent mans nose with it and all the time acquiring no injuries yourself what so ever not even a scratch. There is evidence however of Jason's injuries. If what tm and mm is to be believed and also the scenario suggested above when you put these scenarios onto the autopsy it doesn't make sense. A trained FBI agent walks into a room sees a male choking his daughter.. Now I am not trained in how to "take down" or neutralize a situation but I do think that to bring a halt to any altercation force or strikes would be applied to the legs and back in order to take the aggressor "off his feet" and subdue him because it would make sense to strike from behind. Where are these massive injuries to the back of Jason's body?? If we look at the autopsy and put it on mm and tm allegations it would suggest that tm strook several blows to the front and top of Jason's head to stop him allegedly choking mm. So we are to believe that tm pummeled Jason with a bat while he was facing him from the front even though mm was between the bat and Jason being choked ? With regards to the blood and hair under nails Hair is the possibly the first thing you would grab for to stop someone attacking you in my opinion. sometimes in cases it's the evidence of hair under the victims nails that actually helps find the perpetrator of a crime. I also think regarding the blood under the nails the man had lost most of his blood through his injuries it would have been everywhere so that's no surprise and there is no evidence this was caused by hitting his feet or hands because he had no fractures to either not even a mention of a broken nail? All of this my own thoughts and opinions. Jason corbetts battered body is talking in my opinion.

 

[kittythehare]

Dumb founded, if it was the ring finger and he had received injuries, the swelling and circulation would have been prevented by the ring being in situ which would have become tighter and tighter due to the ever increasing swelling. Great post.

 

[Electric Sheep]

Thanks, where was the lie about the Martens in this post exactly? I have read a lot about this case and am curious to know more. Especially about what lies are told by either side.

The accusation is of a lie.

 

[Truthalways]

Thanks, where was the lie about the Martens in this post exactly? I have read a lot about this case and am curious to know more. Especially about what lies are told by either side.

Kerryann, if you haven't done already please read the autopsy results in the media thread. Then put it on top of the martens claims of events and LE findings to date. It's only then can anyone decide for themselves what's fact and what's lies and hearsay. Personally in my opinion as I have said before Jason corbetts injuries speak volumes.

 

[stephanddoody]

If we come back to the 911 call they had to turn Jason over as he was lying face flat on the ground. If he was strangling Molly and wouldn't let go how come Molly isn't underneath him . How did he come to be lying face flat on the ground ? That certainly explains the blows to the back of the head but not the defensive wounds on his hands or the blows to his the front of the head or the broken nose . Sorry if I have repeated what somebody else has already said .

 

[Francesca]

You must absolutely start with the autopsy before looking at any other information - if you remove the entire background story from this case, you have a naked man who was battered to death in his own room in the middle of the night (when he would normally have been sleeping) with two uninjured people saying "He started it." If a woman was lying on the ground with multiple head injuries and defense wounds, a man would not get away with saying "She started it."
Yes, it's more common for men to be violent towards women, but there is no independent disinterested source saying that Jason was ever violent to Molly. Yes, a man is generally stronger than a woman, but in this case the woman had a weapon and a back-up also armed with a weapon; while the man was naked in his bedroom in the early hours, suggesting he was asleep at least some time before the attack.

 

[Conger]

My apologies if this is retracing old info, but the missing years in mm's history grinds on me so I tried to dig a bit deeper, using her molshka sign in I found that the spelling of Martens changed to Maartens and there is a my space account that has an address of Concord, Farr, TN, Would there be any info linked to this address.
Very little else came up, may not be the same person but it is linked to the name molshka.
Also never have I heard of a fight described here in ireland as a donnybrook.
Also swinging back to Sm, I still believe that her role has been understated on that night, but she seems to have dropped off the radar
IMHO

 

[peregrino]

It is always useful to challenge our thinking on this case and the posts from truthseeker and others have done this. Truthseekers first couple of posts did make me reflect somewhat on what I considered as likely or unlikely, and for that I am grateful.

However, subsequent posts in response (e.g. kittythehare #145) lead me to believe that it is more 'probable' that the hand injuries were sustained protecting his head. I also think, as I have posted already that the angle of the blows will be significant. Similarly, with regard to the hair, I tend to agree with Dumbfounded2 (#210) that the hair was probably Jasons - otherwise why would it part of HIS autopsy report?

However, the San Diego study really got me interested since I thought we would get something interesting. Unfortunately it simply showed that police officers reported no visible injuries in 62% of cases. That does not mean that 62% of alleged strangulation victims did not present with injuries. The aim of the study was to improve the skills of police officers in the documentation, investigation and prosecution of cases of alleged strangulation. To suggest the study showed 62% of alleged victims didnt have visible signs of injury is misleading, in my opinion.

 

[Truthseeker79]

The middle thrid finger is not traditionally the wedding ring finger...there were three seperate injuries to the thrid middle finger, not a lack of blood circulating injury which is found only at the base of the finger where the ring sits

 

[Truthseeker79]

On the superior aspect of the left shoulder is a irregular superficial red brown abrasion....on the upper mid-back...on the right upper back there are pink comtusions" This was taken from the autopsy.
He was hit around the back from behind. The autopsy words not mine.
"On the dorsum of the right hand is an irregular superficial abrasion....On the dorsum of the third fight finger are three irregular superficial red abrasions" again the word of the autopsy.
The fingers were specifically targetted and twisted backwards...when you pull your middle finger backwards there are three phalanx that bruise , the top the middle and the bottom phalanx.....it would be very difficult to adminster three seperate injuries to the phalanx of a single finger with an implement unless the hand was being held down and the blows targetted ( like gangster movie style!) which leads me to believe the fingers were being pulled backwards.
Blood under the nail....not on top of the nail but congealed blood under the nail is called subungual hematoma..this is brusing under the nail when the tips of the fingers are struck with something, it is not blood running under the nail, the autopsy states " the finger nail are trimmed short and have blood underneath"
There are no leg fractures but contusions to both the right and left thighs....The blows to the head were from the side and the back with one contusion visible to the front " the right frontal bilateral parietal, left optical and left temporal"....the parietal, optical and temporal are all located at the side and back of the head indicating to me strikes from the back and side of the head not face to face blows....taking the height difference of the two men the victim ( and yes folks he is a victim.....I am not denying this) would have been in a bending over or lower down position to the assailent with his back to the assailent. The frontal injuries are mainly scattered scratches ( someone scratching him with that someone face to face with JC), the larger brusing is evident on the back and the thighs as well as the back of the left hand indcating someone from behind striking blows. The finger injuries to me are the main clue. They are not defense injuries, especially when you take into account it was one finger...the third middle finger with three seperate injuries to it....if it was a defense injury warding off strikes then the weapon would have struck all the fingers with brusing evident across in a linear fashion over the fingers rather than what the autopsy shows. You say a "trained FBI walks into a room"...I am trained in a very specialist field myself and for years been taught how to keep cool in dangerous situations but this was not a work environment, this was not a police officer walking the beat...this was the mans daughter with "alledgedly" a substantially larger man on top choking her. The evidence shows signs of him trying to get him off her ( the back injuries).

If we are not to believe this then we are being asked to believe these versions:
1. A 39 year old man was beaten to death in his sleep, never woke up, never raised a hand to strike back, and a 100lb woman single handedly casued all those injuries herslef and her father arrived and took the blame.
2. There was an argument between JC and MM....she lost control, she over powered him, he stayed motionless and never struck back and took the assault without trying to defend himself or flee the situation.
3. TM walked into the bedroom, saw no violence being directed at his daughter, saw no threat, and he beat the man to death becasue he was leaving his daughter. He just decided on that moment that his daughter was upset and her husband deserved to die for that. And again JC stood there and took the assault with no retaliation against two people much shorter and weaker than he....
4. The newest one I read was that they drugged him and that is way he did not retaliate.....this is not backed up by toxicology. He was not drugged. The drug in his system would not have rendered a man that size unconscious by any means. Although mixed with alcohol ( even low levels) can result in significant mood changes.

Was there a history of DV? I dont know. What did they argue about? We dont know. We never will. The prosecutor has the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.....so there can be no other plausable explanation for these excessive injuries...all I am putting forward are possible theories. That is all everyone here is doing. Theorising. Looking outside the box. In my work we always say " the devil is in the detail"....when you read the autopsy it is harrowing and upsetting, especially for friends and family so read a litany of injuries. It envokes anger and rage and in that sometimes the small deatils, the clues that there may be another plausable explanation gets lost in this understandable anger.
My opinion and interpretation only.