NC - Keith Scott, 43, killed by LEO, Charlotte, 20 Sept 2016 #1

[CARIIS]

DUH I did not see one on left till this am . But on hers I thought he was in the white pickup the way red vest was standing. BUt with the one on the left , I cant tellif he had a gun, but I can see how they thought they were in danger - its very odd behavior the way he got out of the car and the dont you do it with the one on the left does seem that she saw something .

sorry if posted

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/charlotte-shooting-videos-a-side-by-side-comparison-772904003978


this one has a freeze in it

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/wife-s...r-between-keith-scott-and-police-772184131883

 

[RANCH]

I would still like to know where Scott was going while holding the gun? Did he think that the police would allow him to walk towards innocent residents with a gun in his hand?

 

[animlzrule]

He really didn't appear threatening when he got out of the truck. He was doing what they asked him to do, and then they shot him. What would they have done had he stayed inside? Why weren't they better prepared for when he got out of the vehicle?

I read something today about civilians are supposed to know how to stay calm and behave properly when officers are pointing weapons at them and threatening them, but law enforcement officers are allowed to react out of fear in the heat of the moment. One side always wins.

Exactly. The onus is being put upon the "civilian." How is it that "we" are being held to higher standards than LE? So now it's "our" responsibility to manage and control the police interaction? It's crazy. Have you seen anywhere where these officers demonstrated or explained how they were able to see his gun or the joint from being seated in their car? This is so strange to me. Was Scott sitting there with the joint held up visible in the window? And they said they could see the gun from the car as well. How?? How did they not take into account that he had a brain injury??

 

[bluesneakers]

Exactly. The onus is being put upon the "civilian." How is it that "we" are being held to higher standards than LE? So now it's "our" responsibility to manage and control the police interaction? It's crazy. Have you seen anywhere where these officers demonstrated or explained how they were able to see his gun or the joint from being seated in their car? This is so strange to me. Was Scott sitting there with the joint held up visible in the window? And they said they could see the gun from the car as well. How?? How did they not take into account that he had a brain injury??

This is what I read:

They saw Scott roll what they believed to be “a marijuana ‘blunt.’ ” They returned to watching for their suspect, then Vinson saw Scott hold up a gun.

They withdrew to a spot nearby and put on duty vests that said “Police” that would identify them as officers.

When they came back, Scott still had the gun. They identified themselves as police officers, the department said, and told him loudly and repeatedly to drop the weapon.

I believe they saw the blunt and the gun. But they had no reason to fear for their lives and no reason to kill him. They should have listened to his wife, tried to negotiate with him, taken their time.... so many things they could have done differently and a life would have been saved.

 

[Safeguard]

Charlotte-Mecklenberg Police were searching for a wanted suspect at the Village at College Downs apartments Tuesday afternoon when they ran into Keith Lamont Scott. Officers on scene stated that they observed a man (Scott) get out of a vehicle armed with a gun. Police approached the man after he had gotten back in to his car. As police drew closer to the Scott, he stepped out of the car with the gun and an officer shot him.

Charlotte-Mecklenburg police Chief Kerr Putney stated that the man posed an imminent deadly threat to the officers. Officers immediately began performing CPR and rendering first aid to Scott after the shooting. He was taken to Carolinas Medical Center where he died of his injuries.

The shooting officer has been identified as Officer Brentley Vinson. Both men are black.

Police have recovered the firearm that Keith Lamont Scott was holding when he was shot.

http://heavy.com/news/2016/09/keith...deo-brother-officer-name-photos-reading-book/


“Officers observed a subject inside a vehicle in the apartment complex,” police said in the press release. “The subject exited the vehicle armed with a firearm. Officers observed the subject get back into the vehicle at which time they began to approach the subject.”

“The subject got back out of the vehicle armed with a firearm and posed an imminent deadly threat to officers who subsequently fired their weapon striking the subject,” police said.

Police said Officer Brentley Vinson fired the fatal shot.

According to this post, Mr. Scott was seen getting out of the vehicle with a gun and then got back in.

 

[unsinkable]

Maybe he was too stoned to understand?

His wife said he just took his medication. What was it? Did it interact with the marijuana? WAS the medicine marijuana (self-prescribed)?

What the purpose of the medication? I know sometimes TBIs cause seizures, and anti-seizure meds often have a sedative effective.

so if he took something like that, then smoked pot...he very well could have be incapacitated by the drugs to the point that he didn't know what was going on.

 

[Tillicum]

He really didn't appear threatening when he got out of the truck. He was doing what they asked him to do, and then they shot him. What would they have done had he stayed inside? Why weren't they better prepared for when he got out of the vehicle?

I read something today about civilians are supposed to know how to stay calm and behave properly when officers are pointing weapons at them and threatening them, but law enforcement officers are allowed to react out of fear in the heat of the moment. One side always wins.

BBM I'm trying to think of how they would prepare for a situation like this. They knew he was smoking pot and had a gun. So they order him to drop the gun. No response. So they order him to drop it again, he still doesn't drop it. What are their thoughts at this point? They try again. Nothing. The wife is telling them he doesn't have a gun while they are all watching that gun. So now they've been told he just took his medicine and he has a TBI, and they know he has a gun that he refuses to drop when ordered. What are their thoughts at this point? What should they do? They have an armed man who was just smoking pot, who just took some kind of medicine and probably has a brain injury. They continue to tell him over and over to drop his gun and all he does is back away from them. All of a sudden his calm wife starts screaming "Don't do it Keith!" "Keith don't do it!" What are their thoughts at this point and what should they do?

 

[animlzrule]

This is what I read:



I believe they saw the blunt and the gun. But they had no reason to fear for their lives and no reason to kill him. They should have listened to his wife, tried to negotiate with him, taken their time.... so many things they could have done differently and a life would have been saved.

Idk. Why would he have held up a gun? That's the part that doesn't make sense to me, but then again, he had a TBI. Who knows what he was thinking. And the police didn't bother to try to figure it out. And thank you, I thought they initially approached him in plain clothes.

 

[escape2sc]

So you think the officers should have listened to the wife? She was also shouting that he didn't have a gun and clearly they could see that he did. Why would they believe her when she said he had a TBI. I think if he did in fact have a TBI it's irrelevant in this case imo

I agree with all you said. We don't even know if LE heard his wife hollering but if they did hear her shout that he had TBI. I would think LE would be even more concerned about just what Mr. Scott might do. I would certainly be concerned if I saw one of my neighbors sitting at a school bus stop smoking pot with a loaded gun. Hell he wouldn't even have to be smoking pot just having a loaded gun at a school bus stop is cause for concern. Just think of all the incidents of someone losing control , getting angry or accidentally shooting innocent people . My heart goes out to Mr. Scott's family, I truly wish Mr. Scott would of dropped the gun and could be home tonight with his family.

My heart also goes out to all the business owners and members of the public who had nothing to do with this tragic incident but whose lives and livelihood is being purposely and aggressively disrupted by some of the protesters. Who do they protest to for their rights being trampled on ?

 

[Jax49]

Maybe he was too stoned to understand?

His wife said he just took his medication. What was it? Did it interact with the marijuana? WAS the medicine marijuana (self-prescribed)?

What the purpose of the medication? I know sometimes TBIs cause seizures, and anti-seizure meds often have a sedative effective.

so if he took something like that, then smoked pot...he very well could have be incapacitated by the drugs to the point that he didn't know what was going on.

That makes a lot of sense. IMHO, he looks confused.

 

[animlzrule]

According to this post, Mr. Scott was seen getting out of the vehicle with a gun and then got back in.

Yes, there are conflicting reports about that. It's hard to know what to believe. What part of the open carry statute did he violate? Presumably they did not know at that point that he was a felon. Regardless of the marijuana, why would someone holding a gun cause concern in North Carolina? Don't feel that I'm asking you to explain these things. Just questions and thoughts I'm having...

 

[escape2sc]

Absolutely, they should have listened to his wife. If the police don't have different methods of engaging with the mentally ill, or the sick, or panicked versus the garden variety criminal, then this is an absolute failure of policing. The fact that this guy had a TBI could have had everything to do with why he didn't drop his weapon, or respond in the manner in which he was being ordered. How could they not take that into account? The police culture has veered away from "protect and serve" into some kind of militaristic, autocratic, impersonal, unthinking machine. This heightens the danger for all of us. People are not machines, and sometimes require finesse and manipulation. If you are a police officer and the only weapon you bring to the table is a gun versus your intellect and ability to assess a situation, you're in the wrong business.

I am sorry but this sounds like not only should police be miracle workers to be able to handle those situations but they are also supposed to be mind readers or can predict the future ? Mentally ill, drug induced paranoia , sick , panicked individuals can become a danger to themselves and others in seconds.. how are the police supposed to know which ones will or will not listen to reason ? They told him repeatedly to drop the gun , he was at a school bus stop , there were innocent people around . Mr. Scott and LE were not on some deserted street where no one else could get hurt. If this was a raggedly dressed man in wearing a military jacket or someone whispering praise Allah while holding a loaded weapon in a public area.. and you were standing close enough to hear LE tell him to drop the gun repeatedly how many steps to de-escalate the situation would you want LE to take ?

 

[animlzrule]

BBM I'm trying to think of how they would prepare for a situation like this. They knew he was smoking pot and had a gun. So they order him to drop the gun. No response. So they order him to drop it again, he still doesn't drop it. What are their thoughts at this point? They try again. Nothing. The wife is telling them he doesn't have a gun while they are all watching that gun. So now they've been told he just took his medicine and he has a TBI, and they know he has a gun that he refuses to drop when ordered. What are their thoughts at this point? What should they do? They have an armed man who was just smoking pot, who just took some kind of medicine and probably has a brain injury. They continue to tell him over and over to drop his gun and all he does is back away from them. All of a sudden his calm wife starts screaming "Don't do it Keith!" "Keith don't do it!" What are their thoughts at this point and what should they do?

Well, for one thing they could have waited until he posed an immenent threat before shooting him. He wasn't pointing his gun, and he was backing away. Why the rush?

 

[RANCH]

Does anyone know if the open carry law in North Carolina allows a felon to posses and brandish a gun?

 

[RANCH]

Does anyone know if the open carry law in North Carolina allows a person to engage in illegal activity while carrying a gun?

 

[animlzrule]

I am sorry but this sounds like not only should police be miracle workers to be able to handle those situations but they are also supposed to be mind readers or can predict the future ? Mentally ill, drug induced paranoia , sick , panicked individuals can become a danger to themselves and others in seconds.. how are the police supposed to know which ones will or will not listen to reason ? They told him repeatedly to drop the gun , he was at a school bus stop , there were innocent people around . Mr. Scott and LE were not on some deserted street where no one else could get hurt. If this was a raggedly dressed man in wearing a military jacket or someone whispering praise Allah while holding a loaded weapon in a public area.. and you were standing close enough to hear LE tell him to drop the gun repeatedly how many steps to de-escalate the situation would you want LE to take ?

BBM But that wasn't the case! That's what I mean, the police need to have the ability to assess a situation for risk, and at least attempt non lethal means of deescalation before shooting someone. Noncompliance with a police order isn't, and has never been, until lately, grounds for the police to kill. And yes, he had a gun, but he wasn't pointing it at the officers. Each situation has to be approached individually. They knew that they were dealing with someone with a brain injury. And the fact that NC is an open carry state complicates things. For instance, in your example, that doesn't permit LE to kill that individual either. He hadn't yet done anything. He had a loaded weapon, which is legal there. He was whispering "praise Allah." So? Wearing a military jacket, raggedly dressed...so? Is he pointing his weapon at people, threatening people, well, then that's different. Yes, of course police should be expected to use discernment when engaging with the public. Surely, police training is more than about how to use the weapons.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Well, for one thing they could have waited until he posed an immenent threat before shooting him. He wasn't pointing his gun, and he was backing away. Why the rush?

He did pose an imminent threat. He had a cocked gun in his hand that he didn't want to part with. I doubt seriously they would just let him walk away.

 

[escape2sc]

Or Mr Scott could of continued to not listen to the Police, he could of continued to hold the gun and when his son gets off the school bus he takes his son hostage . Or maybe he gets upset because now his son is there, his wife is there and ...what was it he said about when he shot that man 10 times ? He had to take up for his family ?

And how is LE at fault for not listening to his wife, for not taking into account the TBI , for not talking to him 5 minutes more while he continued to hold the gun ? Mr Scott was at school bus stop to pick up his son ..smoking pot , carrying a loaded weapon he wasn't supposed to have and apparently just took medication for a TBI that affects his comprehension ..

 

[animlzrule]

Does anyone know if the open carry law in North Carolina allows a felon to posses and brandish a gun?

No, of course it doesn't. But at what point did the police know he was a felon? Supposedly they were there surveilling someone else. What would have caused them to identify him as a felon while they were both seated in their individual vehicles, which is what one of the officer's reports claims? They claim to have seen him with a blunt and a gun while in the car. Really? While seated in their car, he was waving a gun around in the front seat of his SUV? That doesn't seem very likely to me.

 

[human]

Does anyone know if the open carry law in North Carolina allows a felon to posses and brandish a gun?

Does anyone know if LE knew he was a felon with a gun before they shot him?