NC NC - Kyle Fleischmann, 24, Charlotte, 9 Nov 2007 - #2

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Does anyone here have a particular theory as to what you think may have happened to Kyle??

It is all speculation at this point, but I am from Charlotte and have followed this case since the day it happened. I attend Buckhead and the uptown area at least once a week, so I will share my information on the setting to give those not familiar with charlotte an idea of what its like.

Thursday night at Buckhead is college night. Here the drinks are cheaper, and the crowd is thinner than saturday nights. When an event such as the Dane Cook concert is in town, the crowd dramatically increases. When I go to Buckhead, we usually stay until 2:00 am. At this point everyone is heading out of the bar, and there is usually a medium sized crowd outside talking, waiting on cabs etc. We normally cross the street and go up a block or two to Fuel Pizza or Pita pit (beside each other basically) to eat. On weekends these places are absolutely packed out, and on thursdays there are still a small crowd in the pizza place.

Now, at this point of the night, the crowd on the streets begins to dwindle tremendously. I have friends on 8th street (buckhead is on 5th). When we walk in this direction at around 2:30 or so, it gets to a point where there is virtually nobody around. On the facebook page, Kyle's dad points out that where the remains that were found that turned out NOT to be Kyle, is the location he believes Kyle Lost his life. This is 12th street. This area is not some place I would even walk in alone during daylight hours. I stayed at a hotel near 11th street, and a rough looking man was beating on our hotel door trying to sell a radar detector at 330 in the morning.

I have never felt threatened the times I have walked alone, but I have been nervous a few times. There are many homeless people that are in the area who will approach you trying to sell things or ask you for money. As far as gangs, Charlotte has their share of them, and I am sure there are neighborhoods near the uptown that are gang neighborhoods, but you never readily see identifiable gang members in the area in my experience. At the point Kyle was making these calls, I can say from experience the area he was in was a ghost town with little to no traffic or people.

Based on the constant news stories I hear, most robberies uptown involve a quick stick up at gun point, and then follow with a shooting or beating. There was a teacher at UNC Charlotte who was put into a coma after being robbed in the uptown area. For me it seems unusual a typical robbery would result in someone totally vanishing, but its not out of the question. At this point everything is pure speculation, but I believe its clear law enforcement seem to have an idea what happened. The ATF being involved, and surveillance police won't release point to them building a case before making an arrest.....just my 2 cents.
 
What makes you think they have an idea? Just wondering because I hadn't heard about ATF, etc. I thought i read all there was to read on this case.


Praying for Kyle.
 
What makes you think they have an idea? Just wondering because I hadn't heard about ATF, etc. I thought i read all there was to read on this case.


Praying for Kyle.

"Richard Fleischmann The remains uptown was not Kyle, although it is the area we beleive he lost his life.
October 10, 2010 at 6:46pm" via the facebook page for Kyle where his dad discussed the other remains uptown. Also, this is where search dogs originally picked up his scent before losing it. Also, the ATF are the ones who filed a search warrant for the vacant construction site a while back when a federal judge sealed all documents related to the case. They found nothing, but they had to have some basis for obtaining a federal search warrant AND having a federal law enforcement entity involved.
 
Thank you so much for this summary, Blueblood -- you did an excellent job depicting the area and how a typical night might unfold. Much obliged!

Not a problem at all...I find that on some forums people are asking questions as to what the area is like, how close fuel is etc. As far as my theories its just really hard to say at this point. I feel like he probably just tried to walk home and came across the wrong person or people. It just seems so strange to me that your average robbery would result in someone going missing. The news and updates on the case have all but stopped so I hope we get some answers.
 
I have read lots of newspaper articles, the facebook group forum, and watched Americas most wanted and various other news stories on the case. It seems ALL the issues discussed or written about miss a few things the others cover. Here are a compiled list of the coverage in all forms....info comes from only news coverage and posts by Dick Fleischmann on the case. I think it's important to keep this story alive, and also take a look at all the facts of the case in one post.

Timeline (After Dane Cook Show)

2:19 a.m.- Kyle seen on surveillance calling his sister, Noelle.
2:20 a.m.- Kyle seen exiting Buckhead Saloon without his coat.
2:25 a.m.- Kyle was spotted at Fuel Pizza, where his father learned he bought 2 slices of Pizza.
3:28 a.m.- called roomate Daniel Scagnelli
3:29 a.m.- called roomate Bruce Mottern

Between the 2:20 a.m. call and 3:29 call, he tried his dad's office four times in eight minutes. (from radio interview, Dick Fleischmann)

Random Case Facts

Buckhead Saloon is 8 miles away from his home in Charlotte

Search dog picked up a scent at 12th street (Buckhead on 7th st.)

Search dog picked up a scent at Holiday Inn (Beside Buckhead)

Early theory according to Dick Fleischmann said it was possible he went with people he met to an after hours club called Hom.

Another early theory: Family believed he got in the car with someone or a group he met that attended Dane Cook, based off his cell phone area use.

March 2009- ATF search at 16th and Davidson St. based on a search warrant filed from a Federal Judge.

October 2010- Skull found near 12th street. Found to be that of African-American male. On facebook Dick Fleischmann says its the area they believe Kyle lost his life

Other Information

A federal search warrant likely means a federal informant brought forward information. A warrant requires PROBABLE CAUSE. A simple anonymous tip would likely not be enough to get a Federal judge to sign the warrant at the site. Probable cause can be established by out-of-court statements made by reliable police informants, even though those statements cannot be tested by the magistrate. However, probable cause will not lie where the only evidence of criminal activity is an officer's affirmation of suspicion or belief

The ATF being involved likely means it was a firearms crime. They are known to get involved to stop gun related crime, especially from prior felons and street gangs.

Thoughts

It seems to me police are slowly but surely building a case on the person or persons responsible for the disappearance of Kyle Fleischmann. There has been no real news in over a year since the Feds became involved. Obviously with no body right now, the investigation is stalling a bit. I just wonder if they have a suspect they aren't prepared to discuss? During the news coverage of the search warrant construction site story, WSOC tv said they learned there was new surveillance video of Kyle, but they were not prepared to release it at this time. Thoughts?
 
Don't know if this is related or not but it is the area. 10-15 minutes away.


-- Human remains were found in a wooded area near Statesville Road and east Interstate 485, Charlotte-Mecklenburg police said.

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/27229919/detail.html

Thanks Darling Gal. I was just listening to this on WSOC. There were 19 police cars there at one time but only a few remain. WSOC says scattered bones and clothing found at the scene.
 
WSOC reporting that LE has told them they do not believe this is Kyle because clothing does not match.
 
WBTV had a short interview with Dick Fleischmann about some new facts in the case. Dick said his PI's have a witness who works at fuel that says he served Kyle. He said Kyle came in alone, and ordered a particular pizza that Dick knows Kyle specifically likes. He also says that police have other surveillance footage of Kyle leaving and standing outside Fuel, but are not prepared to release it. From the footage and the testimony of a cab driver, Dick says they know Kyle walked down 6th street and then continued down North Davidson.

Not a whole lot of new facts, but that was pretty huge that the cab driver places him on this street. Dick says he believes Kyle's body is in construction sites around that area, although dogs have did not find him at the other site.

http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=14310327
 
http://www.digtriad.com/news/article/168011/57/Missing-Elon-Grads-Father-There-Were-More-Witnesses

During an interview this week with WBTV, Dick said there is other surveillance video that hasn't been released. He said the video was of Kyle standing outside of Fuel Pizza, just down the block. Police couldn't confirm if they had the video because it is an open investigation.

and..
Dick said Kyle's case will soon be featured on Lifetime Television as part of a series on high-profile missing persons.

It probably will be on Vanished, the new series with Beth Holloway.
 
any updates?

Not that i've heard. I am trying to keep my eye out for Natalie Holloway's mother's show on Lifetime. I've seen several episodes, but I don't think they have aired the one on Kyle yet that Richard discussed in the WBTV interview.
 
http://www.wbtv.com/story/16003826/...ns-steps-on-anniversary-of-sons-disappearance

Father retraces son's last steps on anniversary of disappearance

Posted: Nov 09, 2011 10:44 PM EST
Updated: Nov 10, 2011 9:52 AM EST
By Molly Grantham, Anchor

*snip*

In honor of the anniversary, Kyle's father came back to that bar, Buckhead Saloon, and retraced what he believes are his son's final steps. He based the route on what tracking dogs who worked the case four years ago sniffed out.

Joining Dick Fleischmann was an undercover private investigator who has worked with Fleischmann and Mike Craig, the owner of the bloodhounds and founder of Public Safety Dogs, Inc.

"What am I hoping to get out of this?" asked Fleischmann. "I want to go over the maps from these dogs. I want to prove I know the direction Kyle was last in."
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