NC - Lennon Lacy, 17, football player found hanged, Aug 2014

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I'm still on the fence, but I think Lennon's family deserves answers and a thorough investigation.

I'm confused by the abrasions on the shoulders. I can understand facial abraisons during a hanging by suicide and even possibly the inner arms if he had his arms over the top wooden beam while securing the rope. I'm just not sure how forensically shoulder abrasions could happen if this was a suicide. The obvious answer would be he was drug.

Forensics should be able to determine if it was an actual hanging or if the body was "strung up" which I would think would be the case if it was a murder made to look like a suicide. Forensics should also be able to determine if there are any rope fibers on Lennon's hands. If there aren't then there would be the answer. Even if there were, it wouldn't rule out foul play, but my thinking is that it would take several people and quite a struggle to hang a 200lb lineman. If there was foul play involved, I imagine Lennon was killed and then hung to make it look like a suicide, so there wouldn't be any rope fibers on his hands.

MOO
 
ClaireNC said:
I am thinking along those same lines, but not necessarily jealousy and another love interest. More like some vigilantes who decided that the 17 year old black boy should not be sneaking around a white woman. Sorry my words seem harsh, but it is a reality around this part of the country.
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BBM

Claire I am also from NC, and I am somewhat offended by your remark "around this part of the country." Unfortunately, prejudice is found in all areas of the country...not isolated to this region, although many would have you believe that it is.
 
I noticed there wasn't anything in the article about his shoes. Seems it would have been mentioned if it were true.

I'm glad the FBI is getting involved. I hope the family finds the answers they so desperately need.
 
Well, the autopsy report doesn't mention any of the injuries on head neck or face that were witnessed by the family and mortician. I hope they arrange for a second autopsy by an independent doctor.

IANAD, but here are some questions I have

AR states his hands were not bagged and nails were trimmed short, with nothing under them. Nothing?

No mention of facial contusions, but there is slight edema on the brain

Two belts were used as a noose for the hanging. Did they belong to him?

No presence of alcohol or drugs

No mention of patterns of lividity

Just a start. From following the case of Rebecca Zahau, its possible for someone to use a staged hanging to cover up a murder. A determination of suicide by LE offers a way to avoid DNA testing and further investigation. Family should make sure that none of the evidence is destroyed.
 
While the NAACP pathologist criticized the crime scene handling, She did not disagree with the autopsies description of the body. Everything was consistent with hanging.
 
bwt42 said:
While the NAACP pathologist criticized the crime scene handling, She did not disagree with the autopsies description of the body. Everything was consistent with hanging.
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Yeah, if the autopsy is correct, I'm afraid this is a suicide by hanging.
 
hambirg said:
Yeah, if the autopsy is correct, I'm afraid this is a suicide by hanging.
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Suicide by hanging and death by hanging are two different things. I noticed the autopsy didn't say a manner of death, only cause of death. The autopsy actually doesn't say suicide anywhere, does it? I'm with the poster above...where did the belts come from? And where are his shoes??
 
MzOpinion8d said:
Suicide by hanging and death by hanging are two different things. I noticed the autopsy didn't say a manner of death, only cause of death. The autopsy actually doesn't say suicide anywhere, does it? I'm with the poster above...where did the belts come from? And where are his shoes??
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MOD suicide per DailyKos article cited above. Don't know if shoes are missing. They did not accompany the body to the morgue. Suspicious yes. Missing not necessarily.
 
MzOpinion8d said:
Suicide by hanging and death by hanging are two different things. I noticed the autopsy didn't say a manner of death, only cause of death. The autopsy actually doesn't say suicide anywhere, does it? I'm with the poster above...where did the belts come from? And where are his shoes??
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I agree that they are two different things. What I was saying is that if the autopsy is correct, than IMHO this was a suicide. There doesn't appear to be any unusual injuries and I just don't see how a big guy like Lennon wouldn't be fighting for his life. Wouldn't there be some defensive wounds or maybe some blunt force trauma? Wouldn't there have been witnesses that heard a struggle or screaming? It would be easier for me to believe there was foul play if it can be shown that COD wasn't the asphyxiation by hanging. . .if Lennon had been killed and then hung.

Regardless, I hope there is a second autopsy so his family can have some answers.
 
hambirg said:
I agree that they are two different things. What I was saying is that if the autopsy is correct, than IMHO this was a suicide. There doesn't appear to be any unusual injuries and I just don't see how a big guy like Lennon wouldn't be fighting for his life. Wouldn't there be some defensive wounds or maybe some blunt force trauma? Wouldn't there have been witnesses that heard a struggle or screaming? It would be easier for me to believe there was foul play if it can be shown that COD wasn't the asphyxiation by hanging. . .if Lennon had been killed and then hung.

Regardless, I hope there is a second autopsy so his family can have some answers.
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I'm sorry, my message came across as critical towards your post and that wasn't my intention! I am so mad about this not being investigated the way it should have been, and my tone was meant for the situation in general, not towards you!!

I just don't understand WHY law enforcement can be so ridiculous sometimes and we as a society have to keep holding them accountable. In this particular death, I can see why suicide seems "obvious" but isn't it just good practice to investigate it fully? I thought all unattended deaths had to have an autopsy. Is that a state law that varies from state to state?

So, the shoes. The shoes he was wearing were not recognized by his family, and they were not his known size - by a big difference, two sizes. There are apparently photos of the shoes at the death scene, but they had disappeared by the time he reached the coroner. The shoes shouldn't have been removed, let alone LOST! So why isn't LE being held accountable for this?

*LL wasn't known to be suicidal or have a history of depression
*He was actively looking forward to something (playing in the game)
*There are no photos of him hanging because supposedly the 911 dispatcher advised to cut him down to check for breathing. Is this typical?
*I'm hoping they're investigating the probability of him being able to hang himself from that swingset - the article says it appears to have been impossible for him to have hung himself without the aid of something to stand on that would have been kicked away. He was 5'9" and it says in the article that his brother, who is 6'4" wasn't able to touch the top of the swingset by reaching up.
*There were apparently no swings attached to the swingset at the time that could have aided him. Was it just an abandoned playground area of the mobile home park or something?
*Family says he was known to have been going to visit the home of someone with violent tendencies

I thought the article seemed fair and the review of the case by the NAACP expert seemed fair. There were a couple of concerns the family had that appear to have been explained by what the reviewer found in the evidence (abrasions that are consistent with ant bites, and the lump on the side of his head at the funeral home that is probably due to reconstruction after the autopsy because it was not present in the autopsy photos). After what happened to Kendrick Johnson, I hope the lump wasn't caused by mishandling of the body.

Again, Hambirg, I apologize! And to answer your question, one of the things in the article mentions that his injuries were potentially consistent with a certain wrestling move that can constrict the airway and cause asphyxiation, but if he was murdered, who knows if the person who did it would have known that and been able to stage the hanging. Hanging a 207# deceased person wouldn't have been easy, which may mean they had help.

I think it's possible that he did commit suicide, but it doesn't seem probable. It would be a lot easier to accept if they had been professional about the investigation and things hadn't come up missing. The shoes he was most likely wearing, the Air Jordans, are missing, too. It's possible that someone took them after he was hanging there, as creepy as it sounds to think of someone taking shoes off a corpse and replacing them with their own. But would it have killed the cops to go to the residence where he was last known to be and asked some questions and looked for the shoes??

Sorry for the long long long post! I hope there are enough paragraph breaks to make it tolerable.
 
Jumping off your post. A 6'4" man couldn't reach a 7'2" beam. I'm 5"8" and had no trouble reaching up 7' 6" standing flat footed. The NAACP pathologist seems to imply it would be impossible for him to hang himself. I think it would be easy to jump up, grab the beam & pull myself up & straddle the beam. What am I missing?
 
MzOpinion8d said:
I'm sorry, my message came across as critical towards your post and that wasn't my intention! I am so mad about this not being investigated the way it should have been, and my tone was meant for the situation in general, not towards you!!

I just don't understand WHY law enforcement can be so ridiculous sometimes and we as a society have to keep holding them accountable. In this particular death, I can see why suicide seems "obvious" but isn't it just good practice to investigate it fully? I thought all unattended deaths had to have an autopsy. Is that a state law that varies from state to state?

So, the shoes. The shoes he was wearing were not recognized by his family, and they were not his known size - by a big difference, two sizes. There are apparently photos of the shoes at the death scene, but they had disappeared by the time he reached the coroner. The shoes shouldn't have been removed, let alone LOST! So why isn't LE being held accountable for this?

*LL wasn't known to be suicidal or have a history of depression
*He was actively looking forward to something (playing in the game)
*There are no photos of him hanging because supposedly the 911 dispatcher advised to cut him down to check for breathing. Is this typical?
*I'm hoping they're investigating the probability of him being able to hang himself from that swingset - the article says it appears to have been impossible for him to have hung himself without the aid of something to stand on that would have been kicked away. He was 5'9" and it says in the article that his brother, who is 6'4" wasn't able to touch the top of the swingset by reaching up.
*There were apparently no swings attached to the swingset at the time that could have aided him. Was it just an abandoned playground area of the mobile home park or something?
*Family says he was known to have been going to visit the home of someone with violent tendencies

I thought the article seemed fair and the review of the case by the NAACP expert seemed fair. There were a couple of concerns the family had that appear to have been explained by what the reviewer found in the evidence (abrasions that are consistent with ant bites, and the lump on the side of his head at the funeral home that is probably due to reconstruction after the autopsy because it was not present in the autopsy photos). After what happened to Kendrick Johnson, I hope the lump wasn't caused by mishandling of the body.

Again, Hambirg, I apologize! And to answer your question, one of the things in the article mentions that his injuries were potentially consistent with a certain wrestling move that can constrict the airway and cause asphyxiation, but if he was murdered, who knows if the person who did it would have known that and been able to stage the hanging. Hanging a 207# deceased person wouldn't have been easy, which may mean they had help.

I think it's possible that he did commit suicide, but it doesn't seem probable. It would be a lot easier to accept if they had been professional about the investigation and things hadn't come up missing. The shoes he was most likely wearing, the Air Jordans, are missing, too. It's possible that someone took them after he was hanging there, as creepy as it sounds to think of someone taking shoes off a corpse and replacing them with their own. But would it have killed the cops to go to the residence where he was last known to be and asked some questions and looked for the shoes??

Sorry for the long long long post! I hope there are enough paragraph breaks to make it tolerable.
Click to expand...

No worries. I didn't take it personally. I just wanted to be sure I made my opinion clear. Based on the autopsy, I think it sounds like there was no foul play.

I do agree that there should be a thorough investigation, but we don't know there wasn't. There was an autopsy done.

As far as the shoes. If there was foul play, why would a murderer bother to leave a pair of shoes that could point to them? That doesn't make sense to me. Someone who could kill someone would take Lennon's expensive shoes and leave him without shoes. I think it's more likely someone came along and took his expensive shoes and replaced them with theirs. Btw, I would sure hate to be that person now. But I have first hand experience with this. My ex had a new pair of tennis shoes stolen from out porch. Whoever took them left a very ratty, well worn pair of work boots in their place. Homeless transients do this. OT. . .but we didn't feel too bad about it. Whoever took our shoes obviously needed them more than we did.

I also think the shoes found on Lennon were probably bagged and entered into evidence. I don't think them not going to the ME with Lennon points to some big conspiracy.

As far as Lennon being suicidal, I see possible reasons. We can never really know what someone else is thinking. It is not uncommon that family and loved ones are blindsided by a suicide. So any arguments regarding that are kind of moot to me.

All that being said, I do think the family is justified in asking for this to be looked at again. They seem reasonable, so I hope they are prepared to accept the answers they get.

MOO
 
bwt42 said:
Jumping off your post. A 6'4" man couldn't reach a 7'2" beam. I'm 5"8" and had no trouble reaching up 7' 6" standing flat footed. The NAACP pathologist seems to imply it would be impossible for him to hang himself. I think it would be easy to jump up, grab the beam & pull myself up & straddle the beam. What am I missing?
Click to expand...

Well, the report said a photo showed the 6'4" man couldn't reach the beam, so I don't know if the measurement is wrong or what. Because a 90" beam would only be 14" higher than his head and should be easily reached from a standing position. So I get your point and you're right, that doesn't make sense.

Grabbing the beam and pulling himself up is possible but I can't tell from the description of the noose if there would have been enough slack for him to have placed his head in it and then rolled off the beam. Also, would the force of 207# rolling off a beam and being abruptly halted by the noose cause more damage than what was seen at autopsy?
 
hambirg said:
No worries. I didn't take it personally. I just wanted to be sure I made my opinion clear. Based on the autopsy, I think it sounds like there was no foul play.

I do agree that there should be a thorough investigation, but we don't know there wasn't. There was an autopsy done.


I also think the shoes found on Lennon were probably bagged and entered into evidence. I don't think them not going to the ME with Lennon points to some big conspiracy.

MOO
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I feel it's safe to say there wasn't a thorough investigation if LE wouldn't even allow the medical examiner to take photos at the scene, and by this point it seems like LE would have released info to support the suicide theory since it is being questioned by LL's family and the NAACP.

The ME said the white shoes were on LL when he was placed in the body bag and the Dr who did the autopsy said it is not standard practice for clothing to be removed before the body arrives at the coroner's office. She also said she asked SBI about the shoes and they said "it's been explained" but it apparently hasn't been explained to LL's family.

There apparently are photos of the shoes as well, identifying the size.

It may be a suicide but a thorough report on how this was determined should be provided.
 
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