NC - MacDonald family murders at Fort Bragg, 1970 - Jeffrey MacDonald innocent?

[hollyjokers]

He has appeared before parole board, most recently in 2005 where Colette's brother, Bob Stevenson, sat five feet away from MacDonald & his wife and gave his full opinion on why the man should never see the light of day, including the belief he shared with his late stepfather, Freddy Kassab, that Colette had interrupted MacDonald in the act of molesting Kimberley. MacDonald was visibly shaken by the accusation.

 

[SoBeCzar]

It is a good thing those crazy hippies decided to concentrate on taking out the super strong wife and children. Otherwise they might have been overpowered.

 

[hollyjokers]

Any medical people in here: would it be possible for JM to be in complete hysterics as was reported by various medical personnel & still have basically normal BP & pulse? I feel like everything he did sounds very calculated: posing with his head on Colette's chest when discovered, collapsing & requiring mouth-to-mouth. My teenage daughter once scared the crap out of me during a sports physical by controlling her breathing so her heart rate dropped. The doctor was ready to send her to the ER.

 

[wonders]

Thanks. But he still didnt have minor injuries as it has been said.

Was that ever verified? The amount of drugs he was taking? The reason I ask I dont think I have ever heard of a case where someone was taking a diet drug and it turned them into a mass murderer.

Do you know of such a case because millions have taken diet drugs even back then.

IMO

Your welcome.
In my opinion his wounds were very minor compared to his wife and childrens. He called the MP's himself, he knew he would be saved. The more I think about it, if he had been attacked first by his own words by real "hippies" he may have died before they even left or shortly after with a collapsed lung. In my opinion Collette fought very hard for her life and it would have taken a bit of time to do the damage that was done to her and then move on to the children of which one also fought for her life. In my opinion he stabbed himself after the scene was set and he was ready for the MP's to come.
I don't know if the drug thing is confirmed or not and I apologize for stating something that I'm not sure about. I also don't know of any case back then that was blamed on drugs, once again my apologies on that too.
I did a google search for this case and each site I clicked on was a pro Jeff site and couldn't read all for the slant on them and don't want to trust wekipedia IYKWIM. I just want to read legal documents. I will try again to see what I can learn.

 

[Boodles]

If that was his intention he could have just used a different weapon on each victim. Not four different weapons on Colette and two weapons on the children.

You're trying to make sense of something that makes no sense. No murders make sense, yet they occur all the time. Regarding the eskatrol (drugs), there is so much to read about it. But you'll read one thing, and then later read something where he contradicts himself or has a totally different angle. He got tangled up in all his lies and fantasies. It's not logical, and you'll hurt your head trying to make it all fit as though it is.

Colette's brother, Bob Stevenson, has said he thinks Colette caught him or somehow confronted him about abusing one of the daughters. He suspected that set off McDonald's raging that fateful night.

 

[wonders]

Any medical people in here: would it be possible for JM to be in complete hysterics as was reported by various medical personnel & still have basically normal BP & pulse? I feel like everything he did sounds very calculated: posing with his head on Colette's chest when discovered, collapsing & requiring mouth-to-mouth. My teenage daughter once scared the crap out of me during a sports physical by controlling her breathing so her heart rate dropped. The doctor was ready to send her to the ER.

You've got an excellent point there hollyjokers with his vital's being that darn good for someone who just went through what he claims he just went through. And isn't strange that they wouldn't be sky high too after commiting such a horrible crime. Unless he is a psychopath, which I think he very well may be.

 

[katydid23]

If drugged up Hippies were in the home of a highly trained Armed forces warrior, threatening his pregnant wife and two little girls, I would expect him to be DEAD before his family was slaughtered. My husband would have fought until his head was cut off. He would not have been a bit banged around.

 

[hollyjokers]

His biggest priority had never been his wife or kids, it was his status as a THE Doctor, THE green beret, a macho macho man; reading his descriptions of his many, many qualities, and his lovemaking conquests is absolutely nauseating. So he effed up big time, in hitting Colette and/or Kimmy - Kimmy's head wound was severe enough that she was likely comatose & close to death very soon after being struck. He was not about to throw away all he had worked for over a bunch of girls. They were replaceable, his prestigious career and accomplishments were not.

 

[Madeleine74]

I'm not thrilled with that either Linask but it will put an end to it. The guilty verdict isn't going to change. But we don't know if he will get a new trial the Judge could put a giant :denied: stamp on it. I think we are just trying to prepare ourselves in the event he does get a new trial.

Just to clarify my earlier comment on this, I'm not saying he should get a new trial or that I support him getting a new trial (I don't), but it wouldn't bother me if he did because, other than the cost of a trial (which I agree is not money well spent), I think he'll still be found guilty. Of course I could be wrong and it's always possible a new jury of 12 might see it differently. Anyway, as long as he is never released or declared "not guilty," that's the most important thing to me. I think his chances of actually being granted a new trial are somewhere between slim and none.

 

[fullmoon]

Hellenna Stoekley had given so many different versions of her alleged involvement that she can't be believed. If that's all the defense has, I don't think it will go very far.

 

[Peazzzer]

: deadhorse: JMO, he shows up like a bad penny.

 

[StephanieH]

The "miracle" of the MacDonald family is that there were four different blood types. A, B, AB and O. This was what convinced me that Jeff murdered his family, because the blood tells the story. Jeff is B and Collette is A. Collette's blood starts dripping in the hallway, near Kimberley's. In fact, there is quite a bit of blood of both of their blood in the hallway. Then Kimberley's blood follows her into her bedroom, where is spatters all over her bedroom. Collette's blood is in her bedroom as well, but NOT much of Jeff's blood and not any of Kristen's. Then, Collette's blood is in Kristen's bedroom, as she runs in there to save her only living child. Jeff probably finished killing her there, as there is a great deal of Collette's blood there. Was Kristen awakened? We will never know.

We do know Collette's blood trails from Kristen's room back to the master bedroom, where there is a great deal of Colette's blood and a little bit of Jeff's blood and some of Kimberley's blood, probably transferred from Collette.

Finally, Kristen's blood is mostly contained in her room because her daddy killed her in there, most likely as he held her on his lap. She was, after all, his favorite child. She was the tomboy, the one who didn't trap him into marrying Collette. The one who looked more like him and who acted more like him. The one he intentionally killed. If any of the murders bothers him at night, this is the one that likely haunts him.

But he did it. The blood tells the story. Jeff's blood--and ONLY Jeff's blood--is in the bathroom sink. Where he stabbed himself after finishing off his youngest daughter so he could, hopefully, keep his career.

Honestly? I believe he accidentally killed Kimberley and that started this whole awful string of events. But I DO believe he intentionally killed Kristen and Collette to stage it.

 

[Betty P]

Pretty good article listing the new evidence that is being introduced. Interesting that he doesn't want the Hilton bath mat or pajama top retested. If there were a smoking gun in this case, I'd say those items would be on the top of my list. Why aren't the weapons being tested for touch DNA?

http://www.wral.com/news/local/wral_investigates/story/11345217/

An interesting quote from this article

Stoeckley, a known drug addict who claimed off and on that she was in the MacDonald apartment that night, has died as well. The Armed Forces Institute of Pathology examined Stoeckley’s hair roots and found that her profile was not consistent with any other crime scene samples tested, eliminating her as a source, according to court records.

BBM

If Stoeckly's hair was not consistent with any of the crime scene evidence, that pretty much rules her out. So are McDonald's defenders still trying to accuse her of the murders? If she had been there that night, her hair would have been left at the crime scene.

 

[NancyA]

An interesting quote from this article



BBM

If Stoeckly's hair was not consistent with any of the crime scene evidence, that pretty much rules her out. So are McDonald's defenders still trying to accuse her of the murders? If she had been there that night, her hair would have been left at the crime scene.

She was reported to be wearing a long blonde wig hence the defence team's concentration on some long synthetic hairs found in a hairbrush. Also found was candle wax not consistent with any candles within the home.

After reading the EM's book I'm still no further forward with being able to say if JM was innocent or guilty, surprisingly that appears to be EM's conclusion too, I am inclined to believe however that the initial investigation and the subsequent trial were very flawed.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

BBM. If he is granted a new trial, I may just have to take vacation and drive down myself for it. I would like to hear everything first hand and not decide innocence or guilt from a made for tv miniseries and a couple of books. Fatal Vision was definitely written to prove guilt and Fatal Justice makes you take a second look. Innocent or guilty, he deserved a fair trial. Some things make me go "hmmmmm?" Still a fence sitter.

Come on down, ERRN! I'll meet you at the courthouse,LOL! I know very little about this case and it sure would be interesting to watch if the re-trial is granted.

wm

 

[JenniferTx]

I dont know trigger. I just cant make sense of it and from what I have read they never knew what his motive was for doing this.

imo

MacDonald had no motive to kill his family. Just because he was taking diet pills doesn't make him a murderer. I have been taking perscription diet pills now close to 3 weeks and yes they keep you awake at night but I haven't felt like killing anyone at all. I just don't think him taking diet pills had anything to do with the murders. Granted that I don't really know what happened in that home that night since I wasn't even born until July of 1970.

I had asked my mom about this case since she was pregnant with me at the time. She said she remembers it very clearly and that everyone thought he was guilty. She did say she remembered HS's claim that she was in the house that night. How would HS know about the broken horse if she wasn't in the house?

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Thank you ERRN1313. Horrible, just horrible. IMO, no one would do this kind of overkill murder on a woman and children and leave JM in the minor condition he was. He was a Dr, he knew he would be saved before he could die. Collette fought for her life as did one of the girls (can't remember which one). He's guilty as sin and is exactly where he belongs and should have been given the DP and that should have been carried out years ago.
I say go ahead and give this monster another trial, use the hearsay and the jury will wonder why this wasn't brought up years ago when all those people were still alive. Further more with today's technolgy they can do an animated video to show exactly what he did to them and prove it didn't happen the way he said it did. The result will be the same GUILTY. Do you know if he was also charged with the unborn childs death?

Good morning, wonders! I don't think NC had a law back then to charge for an unborn child's death. IIRC, and don't quote me on this, a law was recently enacted. Someone correct if I am wrong please.

wm

 

[robinparten]

I have always believed that Jeff killed his family, and that it began with an argument, and/or with him doing something to Kimmie and Collete walking in on him. Once he hit the point of no return by having fatally injured his daughter, he did what he thought he had to do to save himself since he is a narcassist. I believe that many years ago he probably completely disassociated with the events of that evening and he compartmentalized it all. I bet he could probably pass a lie detector test now.

I cannot believe the agony that Colette's family has had to go through, and continues to go through. It's beyond horrible that they are still having to live with this.

 

[believe09]

MacDonald had the only motive to kill his family. Nothing was taken from the home-a home jam packed with meds that MacDonald lifted regularly from the base.

He wanted his freedom. Yet another baby on the way-he didnt want any of them to begin with. He married Collette because she was pregnant.

 

[jjw]

I have always believed that Jeff killed his family, and that it began with an argument, and/or with him doing something to Kimmie and Collete walking in on him. Once he hit the point of no return by having fatally injured his daughter, he did what he thought he had to do to save himself since he is a narcassist. I believe that many years ago he probably completely disassociated with the events of that evening and he compartmentalized it all. I bet he could probably pass a lie detector test now.

I cannot believe the agony that Colette's family has had to go through, and continues to go through. It's beyond horrible that they are still having to live with this.

This happened years before I was even born, so please excuse my ignorance on this case. I have read and seen various crime shows about the JM case, but don't recall anything about abuse of the wife or children. Was there a history(police reports, ER visits) of spousal abuse in this case?

Wouldn't an autopsy looked for sexual assault on the bodies? In the JonBenet case, the doctors claimed she showed signs of previous sexual abuse. So did the McDonald girls show any signs of previous sexual abuse? Had Colette mentioned that she suspected him of abusing the girls? Or, did these accusations start after he was arrested and convicted of the murders?

A previous poster mentioned that they believed it all started w/the accidental killing of KM. Why do you believe that?

Sorry if my questions are repetitive or dumb, but some of the posts piqued my curiosity.