Nepal - Aubrey Sacco, 23, Langtang, 20 April 2010 *Arrest*

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This quotation is from an article by David Lohr for AOL News dated May 20, 2010:



The search request was sent to the US embassy on May 4, and search parties were dispatched to the area.

On May 16, 2010, that is 24 days after AS's disappearance, the US Embassy reported to her father that the Nepali Army had search parties with dogs out on the trails.

Maybe we put too much faith in dogs. Certainly they have worked wonders in other missing person cases. Still they should have been able to find something after less than four weeks.

Haven't found any media mention of how the dogs were trained. Hopefully with so many hikers in Nepal, the government or private agencies provide quality training for the search and rescue dogs.

Um. The US record for a dog trailing a live human being is 5.5 days. That is, the human being was at the point last seen 5.5 days before the Bloodhound was taken to the scene.

In my own experience, the oldest trail successfully worked was by the mother and brother of one of my own dogs, working in tandem with their handler. It was Louisiana in the summer, the temps were hot and way humid, so she would work one dog while leaving the other to cool off and re-hydrate, then she would work the other dog. Working like that, they figured out a trail that was over 80 hours old. This was confirmed by the victim, who was an elderly man who was not lost but was making a point to his granddaughter that he did not need to go into assisted living. He was an old Cajun and he deliberately laid a trail that a lifetime of hunting experience told him would be tough for dogs to figure out.

I don't know any reputable handler who would expect to get results on a trail older than a week. They would try but they would be certain to make it clear that a lack of results would have no real meaning.

As for finding something, it depends on what and how the dogs were trained for. Dogs that have been trained for live searches sometimes indicate human remains but they don't always. Dogs trained exclusively for human remains detection do not indicate on scent left by a live human. Dogs that are cross trained indicate on both, of course.

Training and handling a high level SAR or HRD dog amounts to taking on a full time job. They need all the things that the average house dog needs, plus an exercise program aimed at keeping them in condition equivalent to a human marathon runner, plus several scent training problems a week.

In the US, all that is mostly provided by volunteers, who not only volunteer their training time but often pay for travel, room and board while deployed.

I have no idea how Nepal organises the training of their dog/handler teams. It is certainly a nontrivial expense, no matter who foots the bill.

Even highly qualified dog/handler teams can make mistakes. I don't know a single SAR dog handler who hasn't had the experience of clearing an area only to find out that the victim was in the area cleared.

So using dogs is like certain medical tests. A positive is a positive but a negative doesn't mean anything more than that a specific dog/handler team did not find anything in the area searched.
 
Azaria Chamberlain was a baby, though. The tragic story from Wiki article entitled "Azaria Chamberlain Disappearance":

I'm very familiar with the Azaria Chamberlain case, having followed it since the mid-80s.

I think there's a chance that AS was killed by a large predator that dragged her body off the trail or AS ventured off the trail for some reason and was killed by a large predator. In combination with the rugged terrain, I think there's a chance that, if she was killed in such a way, whatever remains of her body and possessions were left are in some place inaccessible to humans.

Using the buddy system is not only a good idea because it helps soothe worried parents. There are lots of good reasons to use the buddy system and one of the best is when venturing into rough terrain, no matter how popular a tourist attraction it is.

Ed Viesturs, the famous mountain climber, tells an anecdote in his book
No Shortcuts to the Top: Climbing the World's 14 Highest Peaks, from his time working as a guide on Mt Rainier about a climber that passed his party on their way up. Conditions high on the mountain were icy and he called out to warn the guy. The climber scoffed and said something along the lines of "what could possibly happen, this is Mt Rainier!" Meaning that they were on a mountain that can be climbed by people who are reasonably fit who have no climbing experience at all.

Sadly, that guy slipped and fell to his death when he hit the icy portion of the trail.
 
Maybe he realized that he had altitude sickness, and therefore decided to descend. He left belongings to minimize weight. He should have sought assistance immediately.

The following belongings were found at the Hotel Tibet in two clear small plastic bags in the possession of the Hotel Manager- phone, camera, credit cards, travel guide, notebook, receipts by the police in June when searching the hotels in Namche Bazar in June 2012 for Zisimos Souflas. Zisimos is not a naieve traveller and has considerable experience of travelling in many parts of the world.

The hotel manager did not report Zisimos's failure to return to the hotel "in a few days",and only when interviewed in the search foar news of Zisimos in June. His disappearance only came to light to the family when he failed to catch his return flight to the UK on May 15th 2012, when the alarm was raised with the Foreign Office and Nepali Police.

As for "should have sought assistance immediately" - altitude sickness affects people in different ways and degrees, and in this environment not necessarily in a location accessible to immediate assistance. Blaming the missing doesn't help anyone not the least the families of the missing who are struggling with their loss and lack of answers .
 
The following belongings were found at the Hotel Tibet in two clear small plastic bags in the possession of the Hotel Manager- phone, camera, credit cards, travel guide, notebook, receipts by the police in June when searching the hotels in Namche Bazar in June 2012 for Zisimos Souflas. Zisimos is not a naieve traveller and has considerable experience of travelling in many parts of the world.


Were the small bags bundled into one big bag with other possessions, which he may have deemed unnecessary for a few days rest at a lower elevation?


The hotel manager did not report Zisimos's failure to return to the hotel "in a few days",and only when interviewed in the search foar news of Zisimos in June.

The manager may have thought that ZS didn't bother to come back because those particular belongings had no material value.


His disappearance only came to light to the family when he failed to catch his return flight to the UK on May 15th 2012, when the alarm was raised with the Foreign Office and Nepali Police.

That's very similar to what happened in the AS case.

As for "should have sought assistance immediately" - altitude sickness affects people in different ways and degrees, and in this environment not necessarily in a location accessible to immediate assistance.

This video shows a group doing the Everest Base Camp trek

Nepal Everest Base Camp Trek - YouTube

They visit Namche Bazaar also known as the "Capital of the Sherpas." Why didn't Souflas just hire a guide?

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/thread.jspa?threadID=1931196

Rates will vary depending on whether you go through an agent or hire direct, also depending on the skill and language / communication skills also have a bearing on the cost but going through a Trusted and Reliable Agent you can expect to pay $25 [per day] for a Senior Government Licenced Guide and about $20 [per day] for a Porter/Guide who will carry about 15k and speak acceptable English



Namche Bazaar (NB) is not empty wilderness, but a small town of 60 dwellings, including many hotels and restaurants, and a medical clinic. The wealthiest district in Nepal, hiking parties from all over the world come through NB continuously. Some type of assistance must have been available to ZS; hikers generally help each other out. NB also has numerous internet cafes and phone service available.

Souflas could be a crime victim, but what would be the motive?


Blaming the missing doesn't help anyone not the least the families of the missing who are struggling with their loss and lack of answers

Of course we should not blame the victim; rather we should try to understand the victim. Why did he choose to go on such an expedition alone? His family must be suffering terribly, esp. since the area is so remote, and difficult to access. They must be feeling very frustrated and helpless.
 
Were the small bags bundled into one big bag with other possessions, which he may have deemed unnecessary for a few days rest at a lower elevation?

ANS: No, just two small clear plastic bags


The manager may have thought that ZS didn't bother to come back because those particular belongings had no material value.

Ans:It is perceived wisdom that credit cards have a value when stolen, the phone and the camera had chargers so were usuable, and indeed a call was made after 24th April from the phone after ZS is suppose to have left the Hotel! This is being looked into!


Why didn't Souflas just hire a guide?

Ans: We don't know if he did or didn't hire a guide? It has not even been confirmed as to what his destination was when he is supposed to have left Hotel Tibet! Or whether he joined up with other trekkers, which is not uncommon.

Namche Bazaar (NB) is not empty wilderness, but a small town of 60 dwellings, including many hotels and restaurants, and a medical clinic.

Ans: A police search and enquiries have supposed to have been undertaken of NB in June, but by the time this was done it was some considerable time since his disappearcne in April. The police enquiry brought about the info taht he stayed in Hotel Tibet and a search produced his belongings ( as previously described). They were not produced voluntarily by the manager of Hotel Tibet!

The wealthiest district in Nepal, hiking parties from all over the world come through NB continuously. Some type of assistance must have been available to ZS; hikers generally help each other out

Ans: Hence our need to get the information about his disapperance spread across the world to try and find anyone who may have come into contact with him when travelling in Nepal between April and June 2012.


NB also has numerous internet cafes and phone service available.

Ans: The Nepali Police have been asked to investiaget this.


Souflas could be a crime victim, but what would be the motive?

Ans: He had a significant (in Nepali terms ) amount of cash, his passport and ????

Of course we should not blame the victim; rather we should try to understand the victim. Why did he choose to go on such an expedition alone?

Ans: Once again we don't know if he went alone or not.
The prime purpose of his trip to Nepal was to attend a school friends wedding, to assit the cataloging for an exhibition in Katmandu and then participate for a couple of weeks in a voluntary project.
The trip to Everst Base Camp via Namche was the last thread of his trip to Nepal, a once in a life time opportunity before returning to the UK and continuing working towards more international aid work, wherever that may have sent him.

His family must be suffering terribly, esp. since the area is so remote, and difficult to access. They must be feeling very frustrated and helpless.

Ans: The geography and cultural differences of Nepal is challenging. Just ask the Sacco's. We are sufferiing , we don't understand ther are so many unanswered questions but our hope and prayers are that we find some answers with the help and kindess of the good people int he world.

I hope this answers some of your questions. I will post the latest press release and missing poster on this site asap.
 
NB also has numerous internet cafes and phone service available.

Ans: The Nepali Police have been asked to investiaget this.

You don't need to rely on the Nepali police to investigate his on-line activity or phone charges. Has the British law enforcement system offered you any assistance with the internet use aspect? Private investigators may also be helpful. Also ZC's next of kin can probably get the phone records, if any exist. Whom he called, and when, might be useful to know.
 
Ans: Once again we don't know if he went alone or not.

Come to think of it, we don't really know for sure that AS left Lama Hotel alone, either. She also may have been carrying a certain amount of cash. Her plans were to eat and stay overnight at the little teahouses along the way.

Written about the same time as AS was also in Langtang National Park, this blog reflects anxiety about fellow hikers.

http://www.travelblog.org/Asia/Nepal/Kathmandu/Thamal/blog-492717.html
 
There was an article on the Beeb today about the dangers of trekking in Nepal:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-18950982

Nepal's mountainous terrain - prone to natural disasters such as landslides, floods and avalanches - makes searches for missing trekkers a difficult task. There is no dedicated search and rescue unit, so this is a job for local police.

Most interesting (to me) was the brief accounts of 4 trekker/climbers who were rescued in Nepal. It really highlighted for me just how dangerous the terrain alone is. One of the people mentioned is Lincoln Hall, the climber who had to be rescued from high on Mt Everest but the other three sounded like they were ordinary trekkers who got into trouble by simply stumbling or falling on the trail and who then had to wait for rescue.
 
Many parallels exist between AS's case and the case of Zisimos Souflas.

Link to WB thread on the ZS case:
NEW NEPAL - Zisimos Souflas, Mount Everest region, 24 April 2012 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Dhamma Organization offers its 10-day residential meditation course all over the world.

Katmandu location.: http://www.shringa.dhamma.org/

Could be the same organization from which ZS took his meditation course. Beginners must take the 10-day course, but after the initial course, subsequent courses vary in length of stay. The first course has no fee, but at the end, those who finish the entire 10 days, are asked to make a donation towards providing the course (which includes lodging and meals) to new students.

Niall Doherty describes his experience at a Katmandu Vipassana 10-day course, and explains why he quit after two days.

Quitting Vipassana - Niall Doherty - YouTube

The classes are held at official centers run by the organization; however, in addition, courses are sometimes held at non-center sites.

Could AS have had contact with the organization or even taken one of their meditation courses while she was staying in Katmandu?
 
I disagree. If her worries were as cited (who to talk to and what to do, etc), then that doesn't sound like intuition to me, that sounds like social anxiety. Which, in turn, leads me to think she may have been in over her head.

If she was having a lot of social anxiety, that may have de-sensitised her to true intuition of danger.

Jon Krakauer talks about this in his book Into Thin Air when he mentions experienced climbers who have avoided disaster when their inner voice told them not to go for the summit on a particular day, even though conditions seemed right. He noted that his own inner voice was never of any use because it always screamed "we're all gonna diiiieeeeeee!!!"

If Aubrey was used to experiencing such worries (as she implies by saying she was having such thoughts before she left), then she may have been so used to it that when she did meet danger, she didn't recognise the difference.

Thank you for that book recommendation. I greatly enjoyed "Into Thin Air," and I also enjoyed Krakauer's "Into the Wild." Right now, I am reading "The Climb" by Anatoli Boukreev, also excellent.
 
:bump: for Aubrey, missing 3 years this month. :(

yCCQDDx.jpg

AubreySacco.com
 
Hope they arrested the people responsible. With very few details available, I fear that they just arrested someone (read between the lines *anyone) in order to lay the issue to rest.
 
Aubrey Sacco's father 'in shock' over news of arrests in Nepal
CU-Boulder grad vanished while on hike in 2010
By Mitchell Byars, Camera Staff Writer
Posted: 08/02/2013 05:46:23 AM MDT
Updated: 08/02/2013 07:47:07 AM MDT


Snipped:

"We're kind of in shock," Sacco's father Paul told the Daily Camera this morning in a phone interview. "We have some very good people working on this case, and when they tell me this then I'll believe it. We've learned to be very cautious about these reports.

http://www.dailycamera.com/cu-news/ci_23780373/aubrey-sacco-arrests-missing-cu-boulder-graduate
 
Aubrey Sacco Nepal Disappearance: Suspects Arrested In Three Year Old Missing Trekker Cold Case

Snipped:

There aren’t a lot of details yet on the men or their motives. Even their names don’t seem to be revealed, at least not in English media sources.

The family has visited Nepal several times to put pressure on the authorities to find out what happened to Sacco. The original case was bungled. Her father Paul Sacco himself discovered items belonging to his daughter in May 2011. They had been left in her hotel room and included a laptop that had presumably not been checked since her disappearance from the area over a year before.

http://www./884060/aubrey-sacco-nep...-in-three-year-old-missing-trekker-cold-case/
 
Glad there's been some movement in this case (but like Aubrey's dad, I'm waiting for more info...and like posters here, hoping they've arrested the right people).
 

This article indicates that 3 more people have been arrested and has the names of 4 of the 5 (the original 2 + 2 of the 3 new ones). There's also more detail:

"According to the police, Jagat and Pemba have disclosed that they followed Aubrey right from Syafrubensi. They whisked her away in Langtang-1 and murdered her. Her dead body, passport and other documents were thrown into the Langtang River. They looted a camera and some cash from her.
Jagat and Pemba have also told the police that Lakpa masterminded the kidnapping and murder of Aubrey. Most of the suspects arrested in the case are involved in tourism business."
 

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