NEW NEPAL - Zisimos Souflas, Mount Everest region, 24 April 2012

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Since ZS withdrew cash from a bank account on April 27, the last confirmed sighting of ZS should have been at the bank in Namche Bazaar, which is the only bank in the Khumbu region. Even if the bank personnel didn’t recall meeting with him, they must have examined his ID and required his signature, and then time-stamped the transaction.

On the other hand, mobile banking is now being introduced to the Khumbu. To withdraw cash from the account, someone would have to accept a transfer of funds into one of their own accounts, and then give ZS the amount in cash. This transaction would still be traceable, and possibly used to determine ZS’s location on the twenty-seventh of April.

If the bank transaction seemed irregular, then the local police would not suspect that ZS was most likely the victim of an accident.

From Wiki article on Khumbu:

Khumbu (also known as the Everest Region)[1] is located in northeastern Nepal on the Nepalese side of Mount Everest. It is part of the Solukhumbu District, which in turn is part of the Sagarmatha Zone.[2] Khumbu is one of three subregions of the main Khambu(specially Thulung) and Sherpa settlement of the Himalaya, the other two being Solu and Pharak. It includes the town of Namche Bazaar as well as the villages of Thame, Khumjung, Pangboche, Pheriche and Kunde. The famous Buddhist monastery at Tengboche is also located in the Khumbu.[3]


British backpacker Zisimos withdrew 35,000 Nepalese rupees (£250) [roughly $400 USD] from his bank account on April 27 - three days after he left his hotel.

The graduate left his belongings at Hotel Tibet in Namche Bazaar on April 24, promising to return for them in a few days time.

Authorities have not ruled out murder, the Sunday Times reported, although they suspect he had an accident.

However, local guides have searched all the paths he could have taken which are all well marked out.

Weather conditions at the time were good so the disappearance remains a complete mystery.

Zisimos had left his camera, phone, credit cards and driving licence at the hotel.

The graduate was reported missing on May 15 by his family when he failed to get his flight back to Manchester Airport.


Source of the two quotations above: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-days-Belgian-decapitated.html#ixzz26hDnWXqI


03.12.2012 | BRIC Cell Phones
The Tibetan [incorrect, the town is actually Nepali] town of Namche Bazaar has yaks, donkeys and cell phones. Located along the route to a Mt. Everest base camp, the town attracts local traders who provision climbers. With the former carrying products and the latter, market information, the animals and phones are an interesting combination.

Between 2001 and 2012, cell phone subscriptions in India and China have soared. Currently approaching one billion in these 2 BRIC countries, the increase far exceeds the minimal upward trend in developed nations like the U.S.

The Economic Lesson

By “moving” information, cell phones enable people to share prices and negotiate transactions. Cell phones have also become the foundation of mobile banking networks. Instead of cash, text messages are used to make purchases at local stores, to make deposits, and to transfer money. Because cell phones create information and financial infrastructures in 21st century developing economies, they propel economic growth.


Source for the above quotation:
http://www.econlife.com/2012/03/12/bric-cell-phones/
 

ZS's friend: “On April 27, Souflas had made a phone call to me and informed that he left some of his personal belongings, including camera and wallet, at the hotel ..."

Where exactly was ZS when he made this call?

Cell phones work in the Khumbu area, but they are not 100% reliable. Satellite phones are available (but expensive) in Namche Bazaar, and at other small settlements in the Khumbu, including Everest Base Camp.

If ZS were in Namche Bazaar, then why would he feel any concern about his belongings? The town is very small. He could just walk to the Hotel Tibet and either claim his possessions, or ask the management to continue to hold them until he returns from his destination. For that matter, he could just borrow someone's cell phone, or pay for a satellite phone, and call the hotel from anywhere in the Khumbu.

If ZS made the April 27 call to his friend from some other town, then confirmation of that fact might be helpful: trekkers who may also have been in that other town on the twenty-seventh of April might remember seeing him or possibly have some useful information about the situation they observed there at the time.
 
Per the BBC interview with ZS's family members, the last time that ZS's cell phone was used was April 27, but the call itself was never picked up.

Some posters on another board believed that it is common for cell phones left unwatched to be "borrowed," and that therefore, we cannot assume that ZS himself made this call.

While the cell may indeed have been borrowed, seems strange that the borrower happened to pick the day April 27; rather than the previous day, or the next day, or any subsequent day, even though the cell was not discovered by police until later than May 15.

For a trekker to leave Namche Bazaar on a short excursion for two or three days and then return is not unusual. Often hikers take small trips to help themselves acclimatize to the high elevation.

Seems likely that ZS left Namche Bazaar on the twenty-fourth for a small trip, and then returned to the hotel intending to pick up the items he left behind exactly as he had promised.
 
Per the BBC interview with ZS's family members, the last time that ZS's cell phone was used was April 27, but the call itself was never picked up.



For clarification: We do not know who made the call on the 27th April. There is a problem as the call was made after Zisimos is suppsoe to have left the phone at the hotel!!!!
The Hotel Tibet Manager told the Nepali Police that Zisimos left his hotel in Namche Bazaar on the 24th April, leaving two small plastic bags with his phone, charger, camera, charger , bank cards etc with the manager , to be collected by him on his return from Everest Base Camp.

The phone call was to a friend / contact of Zisimos.
 
ZS's friend: “On April 27, Souflas had made a phone call to me and informed that he left some of his personal belongings, including camera and wallet, at the hotel ..."


Does this friend really say " wallet"? A wallet was not reported as one of the items found at the hotel Tibet by the police .
 
ZS's friend: “On April 27, Souflas had made a phone call to me and informed that he left some of his personal belongings, including camera and wallet, at the hotel ..."


Does this friend really say " wallet"? A wallet was not reported as one of the items found at the hotel Tibet by the police .

The article is from Ekantipur, a Nepali news source.

Ekantipur
Kantipur Publication has launched ekantipur.com as a complete e-magazine in which news comprises the major component. This portal encompasses all the elements that should be present in a complete magazine.

This site has added more value by broadcasting KTV News bulletin and all current affair shows and can even get connected with most popular FM station of the Nation, Kantipur FM's website directly. To go a step further, the site has sections like emusic, ebazaar, model watch, photo-features, city -lifestyles etc to cater the local market. This website has allotted a special section for Non-resident Nepalese so that they get connected to their home country via this site. This pioneering attempt by ekantipur is bound to integrate the local diaspora with their homeland more effectively.

EKantipur has been designed to target to target all the Global viewers who has deep interest in Nepal. This is an attempt made by Kantipur to keep up with the tide of time and to introduce and provide modern look to the concept of local media in Internet Technology.

Source: http://www.ekantipur.com/about-us/


Websleuths has made me very aware that journalists often do not verify the facts as carefully as they should; however, in the Aubrey Sacco case, the Nepali news sources generally provided more specific details and avoided sensationalizing the story.

Here is the exact quote from the article entitled “British National Missing from Namche” which appeared in Ekantipur June 21, 2012:

Zisimos Souflas, a 27-year-old British national, has been missing since April 23 from Namche Bazaar during his tour to the Khumbu region. According to a statement by the British Embassy in Kathmandu, he was traveling alone on his way to the Everest base camp and his whereabouts is unknown.

According to his friend Siddartha Thapa, [the] owner of the local hotel where Souflas had stayed has been making conflicting statements and not helping in investigation.

“On April 27, Souflas had made a phone call to me and informed [me] that he left some of his personal belongings, including camera and wallet, at the hotel but when his family member reached there the hotel owner told them that he left the hotel on April 24. It has made us more suspicious,” Thapa said. He also claimed that local police is also not cooperating enough and working in glacial pace.

Source: http://202.166.193.41/2012/06/21/capital/british-national-missing-from-namche/355905.html

Therefore, the report is merely quoting ZS’s friend, ST. We should keep in mind that the friend may have been confused at the time he gave the interview. Perhaps he didn’t remember which items ZS told him that he had left behind accurately.

Another possibility is that ZS told his friend that he had left a wallet at the hotel, and somehow it was lost or taken in the interim before the police arrived a few weeks later.

ST seems to have been under the impression that ZS had stayed at the hotel up until April twenty-seventh, rather than leaving April twenty-fourth.
 
Per the BBC interview with ZS's family members, the last time that ZS's cell phone was used was April 27, but the call itself was never picked up.



For clarification: We do not know who made the call on the 27th April. There is a problem as the call was made after Zisimos is suppsoe to have left the phone at the hotel!!!!
The Hotel Tibet Manager told the Nepali Police that Zisimos left his hotel in Namche Bazaar on the 24th April, leaving two small plastic bags with his phone, charger, camera, charger , bank cards etc with the manager , to be collected by him on his return from Everest Base Camp.

The phone call was to a friend / contact of Zisimos.

Maybe ZS left Namche Bazaar on the morning of the twenty-fourth April to make a side trip to some place of interest to him, then returned to the hotel on the twenty-seventh. Perhaps the hotel had given him a receipt to use to claim his possessions from the storage area. He may have asked the desk clerk (or whomever was working at the desk) to retrieve his belongings. Then, in the lobby of the hotel, he may have used his cell phone to try to call someone; during the call, he may have been accosted by some acquaintance. He may have just handed the bags back to the clerk, saying he would be back later. If the hotel is a busy place, the desk personnel may have entirely forgotten the incident by the time the police were questioning people a few weeks later.
 
Walker Quote: "Maybe ZS left Namche Bazaar on the morning of the twenty-fourth April to make a side trip to some place of interest to him, then returned to the hotel on the twenty-seventh"

Answer: The manager of the hotel Tibet, told the police that Zis left the hotel on the 24th April and did not return.

Walker Quote: "Perhaps the hotel had given him a receipt to use to claim his possessions from the storage area. "

Answer: No receipt was issued by the Hotel Manager and he kept the items in his room and they were not locked in a specific storage room / cupboard.

Walker Quote: "He may have asked the desk clerk (or whomever was working at the desk) to retrieve his belongings. Then, in the lobby of the hotel, he may have used his cell phone to try to call someone; during the call, he may have been accosted by some acquaintance. He may have just handed the bags back to the clerk, saying he would be back later."

Answer: There is absolutely no evidence to suggest any of the aforementioned happened.

Walker Quote: " If the hotel is a busy place, the desk personnel may have entirely forgotten the incident by the time the police were questioning people a few weeks later. "

Answer: It is perfectly true that memories of events fade with time and that the statements from the Hotel manager and staff were taken in June a considerable time after the date of Zis's disappearance .
However, the 3 staff that were interviewed at the hotel gave exactly the same account! And none made any reference to a memory of Zisimos returning to the hotel as suggesetd by Walker.Apparently the hotel was not exceptionally busy.
 
Walker Quote: "Maybe ZS left Namche Bazaar on the morning of the twenty-fourth April to make a side trip to some place of interest to him, then returned to the hotel on the twenty-seventh"

Answer: The manager of the hotel Tibet, told the police that Zis left the hotel on the 24th April and did not return.

Walker Quote: "Perhaps the hotel had given him a receipt to use to claim his possessions from the storage area. "

Answer: No receipt was issued by the Hotel Manager and he kept the items in his room and they were not locked in a specific storage room / cupboard.

Walker Quote: "He may have asked the desk clerk (or whomever was working at the desk) to retrieve his belongings. Then, in the lobby of the hotel, he may have used his cell phone to try to call someone; during the call, he may have been accosted by some acquaintance. He may have just handed the bags back to the clerk, saying he would be back later."

Answer: There is absolutely no evidence to suggest any of the aforementioned happened.

Walker Quote: " If the hotel is a busy place, the desk personnel may have entirely forgotten the incident by the time the police were questioning people a few weeks later. "

Answer: It is perfectly true that memories of events fade with time and that the statements from the Hotel manager and staff were taken in June a considerable time after the date of Zis's disappearance .
However, the 3 staff that were interviewed at the hotel gave exactly the same account! And none made any reference to a memory of Zisimos returning to the hotel as suggesetd by Walker.Apparently the hotel was not exceptionally busy.

Thank you for your response.

Is it possible that ZS took some side trip starting on April 24, and then returned to the town of Namche Bazaar on April 27?

The bank transaction and the phone call to ST support the possibility that ZS was in Namche Bazaar on the twenty-seventh of April, but they don't necessarily prove that was the case.
 
Since ZS withdrew cash from a bank account on April 27, the last confirmed sighting of ZS should have been at the bank in Namche Bazaar, which is the only bank in the Khumbu region. Even if the bank personnel didn’t recall meeting with him, they must have examined his ID and required his signature, and then time-stamped the transaction.


Clarification: Zisimos took the money out in Katmandhu and not when he was in Namche Bazaar.
The Daily Mail report contained a number of mistakes , of which this was one.
 
Quote: "Is it possible that ZS took some side trip starting on April 24, and then returned to the town of Namche Bazaar on April 27?"
Answer: I suppose it is possible but unlilkely because if he returned to Namche on the 27th he would have had the opportunity to collect the items he left with the hotelier.

.
 
Since ZS withdrew cash from a bank account on April 27, the last confirmed sighting of ZS should have been at the bank in Namche Bazaar, which is the only bank in the Khumbu region. Even if the bank personnel didn’t recall meeting with him, they must have examined his ID and required his signature, and then time-stamped the transaction.


Clarification: Zisimos took the money out in Katmandhu and not when he was in Namche Bazaar.
The Daily Mail report contained a number of mistakes , of which this was one.

Thank you for this information.

The media should be more careful with these details, esp. when we have so very few facts available to us at this time.
 
The Lonely Planet guide entitled “Trekking in the Nepal Himalaya, Ninth Edition, August 2009” suggests that people hiking to Everest Base Camp proceed slowly, and take side trips along the way for acclimatization. ZS may have had an intention of taking such a side trip.

If he did head straight for the Everest Base Camp, he would have allowed more than a few days to complete the journey and return to Namche Bazaar. The hike itself is not terribly strenuous, but the high altitude and potential for inclement weather are major hazards.

According to the same guide, the hotel charges 200 Nepali rupees or $20 USD per night. While possibly outdated, this price is high enough to discourage the average trekker from holding a room there indefinitely or from making a formal arrangement to use the room for mere storage.



ZS’s family member:

Just to update everyone generally. Zisimos was last heard from on 23rd April when he registered his entry at Sagarmatha National Park. He left Hotel Tibet (for a walk perhaps - he didn't check out), where he was staying and never returned, leaving behind his camera, phone, clothes and suitcase etc. He took with him his passport. There have been no sightings since.
Source:
http://www.facebook.com/groups/158238870967573/

The graduate left his belongings at Hotel Tibet in Namche Bazaar on April 24, promising to return for them in a few days time.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-days-Belgian-decapitated.html#ixzz26yyF9Bm2
 
Originally Posted by linarclud38
The following belongings were found at the Hotel Tibet in two clear small plastic bags in the possession of the Hotel Manager- phone, camera, credit cards, travel guide, notebook, receipts by the police in June when searching the hotels in Namche Bazar in June 2012 for Zisimos Souflas. Zisimos is not a naieve traveller and has considerable experience of travelling in many parts of the world.

The general impression seems to be that ZS was in a terrible hurry to meet someone or some group, or to accomplish some task on a tight deadline.

The guidebooks advise travellers to the Himalayan region to take it easy and go slowly to guard against adverse reaction to the high altitude.

So, if ZS were rushing to meet someone or a group to go hiking on some side trip, they would have been more than understanding if he had called them and asked them to wait an extra 20 minutes or so to allow him to negotiate proper storage for his items (worth at least a few hundred USD) and to properly check out of the hotel, at least temporarily.

Therefore, in my opinion, the possibility that he intended to meet a helicopter should be considered, because he would have to be at the helipad at a specific time, and being late would incur a larger debt than the replacement value of the items which ZS left behind at the hotel. In other words, the "meter" would be running.

The rates charged to tourists for helicopter charters are roughly $2000 USD per person per hour, often with a minimum of 4 or 5 passengers; but, possibly, the locals and certain groups can get better deals. If the trip were just a short (say 10 minute) ride, the price might amount to roughly a few hundred per passenger.

Advertisement for charter helicopters in Nepal:
http://www.absolutetrekking.com/helicopter-tour-in-nepal.html

The call made on the 27th April to ST would make sense in this context: if Namche Bazaar were not immediately accessible to ZS, he might well feel concerned about his camera and wallet.

That phone call (to Katmandu?) was probably via satellite, and depending on the model of the equipment might not be accurately traceable to within tens of miles of ZS's exact location at the time the call was made.

If ZS did make a side trip via helicopter, his destination would likely be some site at roughly the same elevation, since he would not want to lose the acclimatization he had already gained.

*Please note: although this suggestion might be possible, there are also many other likely explanations.
 
A call was made from this phone on April 27, three days after ZS left the hotel, to one of ZS's contacts. This call was not picked up.

A few possibilities:

Someone associated with the hotel was concerned since ZS was now gone a few days, and tried to call one of the contacts on ZS's cell phone. Why then would this person not persist in calling ZS's contacts or turn the cell phone over to the police?

Another possibility: the cell was spoofed by a satellite phone.

Basically spoofing causes the telephone network to display a number of the recipient which is not of the actual originating station.

Fake call ID services on the rise

The internet is making it a lot easier to fake who you are via the phone.
Many online services are springing up that bypass Caller-ID and can make it look like you are ringing from almost any phone number.

The spoofing services work with mobile phones, landlines as well as telephone services that are routed via the net.

Though spoofing Caller-ID is not illegal there are already reports that conmen are using it to give bogus calls more credibility.


Source:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4482139.stm
 
Both Langtang National Park, where Aubrey Sacco disappeared, and Sagarmatha (Everest) National Park are huge, but well-established as tourist areas. They are separated by roughly 50 miles & a region known as Rolwaling.

According to local lore, Rolwaling is a beyul, a "hidden valley" plowed out by the tantric saint Padmasambhava (also known as Guru Rinpoche) 1200 years ago to serve as a sanctuary for dharma in a future time of intolerance -- a clear reference to the Chinese invasion. Rolwaling's special status has meant that Buddhist traditions are taken more seriously than elsewhere. Religious festivals are very frequent, and celebrated with great enthusiasm: not just with tantric rituals, but singing and dancing late into the night. Cultural conservatism has resulted in ecological conservation. Hunting and slaughter have never been acceptable. The forests, on the north-facing slopes especially, are essentially unimpacted.

"Pristine" is the word that comes to mind.

There are other factors that have combined to keep Rolwaling fresh. A particularly formidable pass separates Rolwaling from Khumbu. Also, because it is an east-west valley, Rolwaling was never involved in trade between India and China. It wasn't even discovered until the latter half of the 19th century. With very little land suitable for agriculture, the population has never exceeded the current level of about 300 inhabitants. Even after most of Nepal was open to tourism, Rolwaling was, until 2001, saddled with restrictions that made independent trekking impossible. Gauri Shankar, the great peak to the north, is the most sacred of mountains for the Sherpas, and has only been climbed once.

Source: http://www.rolwaling.org/

The Langtang trail to the village of Langtang from Syabrubesi, which Aubrey Sacco was following, and the trails to Everest Base Camp from Namche Bazaar, and its surrounding areas, are well-trafficked, and relatively easy to follow.

Rolwaling is mostly wilderness.

Maybe there is some site of interest in Rolwaling, at an elevation of roughly 3000 meters, which cannot be accessed by a hiking trail, or which would require too much time or technical expertise to climb.

To get to such a Rolwaling site, the traveler would have to climb to a location at a similar altitude to prevent mountain sickness, and then perhaps take a helicopter.
 
Népal - Trek au Rolwaling (30 avril au12 mai 2012) - YouTube

Above video, "Nepal - Trek au Rolwaling," filmed by French trekker, shows various small settlements Jagat, Simgaon, Kharka, Beding, Na. At end of trek, also shows the Maoist political demonstrations at Charikot. Dated April 30, 2012 through May 12, 2012.

Many different spellings are used for the name of the mountain called "Ghori Shankar," located in the northern part of Rolwaling. For a while, Ghori Shankar (7135m) was believed to be the highest on earth, so trails were developed, and a few small villages dot this region which is close to the Tibet border.

Like the more popular destinations, Langtang and Everest Base Camp, tea house and camping accommodations are marketed to backpackers within the Gaurishankar Conservation Area (GCA). The local people hope to develop the tourist traffic more to help build up their economy.

Example of GCA tourist marketing: http://culturaltreks.com/trekking-i...gaurishankar-trail-and-tashi-lapcha-pass.html

However, Gaurishankar Conservation Area is still remote and sparsely populated, and in my opinion, any Western visitors would be noticed and remembered for a while.

As you can see at 00:58 of the YouTube video, a special permit is required to trek in this particular region, and visitors must check in at tourist check posts.

Therefore, if ZS did travel into Rolwaling, he probably did not go to this area, but rather to the more southern part of the valley.

Here is an interesting map. The white areas are glaciers. Namche Bazaar is on the far right-hand side:
http://rolwalingtrek.com/images/tmaps/rolwaling1.jpg



This site promotes a special tour of the Numbur region:
http://www.nepal-traveller.com/index.php?action=article&id=235

Quote from the above link:
If you want to escape the congestion of commercialized trekking trails and get ‘off-the-beaten track’ then plan your trek to the recently developed trekking route, the ‘Numbur Cheese Circuit (NCC)’. Located in Ramechhap, around 190 km east of the capital city Kathmandu. The NCC is a 14 to 16 days circuit trail connecting two beautiful river valleys, namely the Khimti and Likhu in the lap of Everest and Rolwaling region. The trail has been named in honor of the yet unclimbed peak Numburchuli (6959m) as well as for one of Nepal’s first yak cheese factories established in 1957. NCC offers visitors the superb and breathtaking views of majestic Himalayan peaks including Everest range, Numburchuli, Gaurishankar, Jugal and Langtang Himal ranges, pristine nature and unspoiled culture.
 
An interesting helicopter & hiking package tour of area roughly 20 miles to the south-west of Namche Bazaar:
[SOLU-DUDHKUNDA AREA TREK]
We offer no other off the beaten trek that takes one so close to the Himalayas without being dangerously high and where the sightings of Blood Pheasant can be very good.
First you make a short flight to the airstrip by the apple orchards of Phaplu and then start following the Dudhkunda Khola valley to the Sherpa settlement of Ringmo. After this, keeping to the ridge all the way, this pilgrim route rapidly climbs out of Sherpa settlements and onto the high pastures. The main ascent culminates at the turquoise green Dudh Kunda Lake (15,000 ft), which makes a grand view with the three peaks Numbur 6,959m, Khatang 6,853m and Karyolung 6,511m towering behind it. Thereafter with a downhill and a traverse to a pass, the descent to the warm green Junbesi valley brings us to Thupden Choling, an old but very active Buddhist Monastery undergoing renovation. All around this monastery on a hillside are hundreds of small meditation huts, some clinging on steep sections 500ft above. It is a day’s walk to Phaplu from where you finally fly back to Kathmandu.
Source: http://insighthimalaya.com/treks-2/off-the-beaten-trail/solu-pilgrims-trail/

Beautiful views of the mountains.
 
http://searchingforzisimos.com/former-st-andrews-student-vanishes-while-travelling-in-nepal/

The author of the above article apparently misunderstood ZS’s destination. He could not have been planning to climb Everest itself; but rather he intended to visit only the Everest Base Camp [EBC].

Actually climbing the mountain requires a very expensive permit from the Nepal government and special equipment. Additionally, ZS has not been described as having any high-altitude hiking or climbing experience.



[2007] Permits issued in Nepal cost $10,000 and don’t include services at all.
Source: http://outdoors.whatitcosts.com/mt-everest.htm


Six days after Namche, including a rest day in Pheriche, we reached Base Camp. Everest's signature plume was streaming like a war banner in the bright May morning sunlight. At 17,600 feet, it was the end of the journey for most of us, but just the beginning for the climbers. Most were down in camp, waiting out high winds aloft. Up on the glaring white Khumbu Icefall, a line of antlike climbers was still descending.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/travel/articl...king-to-the-foot-of-2615029.php#ixzz28abverp7

From the same link, map shows the most likely route for EBC trekkers:

628x471.jpg


Distance between Namche Bazaar and Everest Base Camp is roughly 18 miles; but due to the high altitude and weather considerations, the one-way trip typically takes 5 – 6 days or more.

ZS could not have planned to reach EBC from Namche Bazaar, and return to the Hotel Tibet in only a few days.

No one has quoted ZS directly stating that he specifically intended to visit the EBC, though relative SS says that he was planning to go there.

Similarly, no one has quoted Aubrey Sacco directly stating her specific intention to visit the village of Langtang, where the trail she was following would eventually lead.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
168
Guests online
302
Total visitors
470

Forum statistics

Threads
609,139
Messages
18,250,055
Members
234,547
Latest member
4TheLost& Forgotten
Back
Top