Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #2

[MaxManning]

In regards to the bleached pants. I'm not sure if it's in documents or if it was rumour, but I remember reading that Scott was "concerned" about having blood on his clothes because they were washed with some of the kids' clothes. It was one of the things that he said that have made people question him. If 'anyone' in that household had blood on their clothes, it's reasonable to think they would use bleach in the wash?

The key..... take away that it was found in odd circumstances, and that it was Lenk that found it.... I find it extremely questionable that it had no other DNA on it, just SA's. That's what I can't get past.

MaxManning.... thanks for the probability and plausibility post.... next time wait until I'm on my 2nd cup of coffee though!!! :happydance: I had to read it twice, way too many big words when only on first cup ;-)

Sorry, I do ramble! But in short, none of us can be certain of anything, but we are all using plausibility and probability to create opinions. The more we discuss and uncover aspects we had not considered, the more that can change our evaluations.

Great example is The Duchess informing me that the bill of sale was for the CAR , not the PICTURES. Big difference.

You are correct, in the dassey appeal transcripts there is a coworker of tadych that gives a statement about scott tadych's concern.

 

[SCHMAE]

Until we've seen the context of Barb and Kayla's interviews, we have no idea how they gave the statements. I truly believe Kayla's were exaggerated and downright made up in areas. Like Brendan, she was just a child, in a very adult situation. If we can accept that Brendan would lie about raping and slitting a woman's throat, it shouldn't be a huge leap to believe Kayla could have lied in her statements for whatever reason as well. Personally, I felt for her on the stand, I found her tears to be real, and found her to be distressed. No one likes to admit in open court they made up stories, and I think she felt bad for what she did. She was given the chance to go back and affirm her original statements and continue lying (plenty of witnesses have), but she didn't. JMO

Snipped and bold by me. This is wild speculation on my part but here goes. Maybe Kayla and Brendan were tired of their uncle who some claim molested his minor relatives. Maybe he was really arrogant and bossy with the whole family after being released. Many posters have noted his sense of entitlement in some of the phone calls. Maybe these kids thought they can make their uncle look bad without realizing the impact those statement would make until later at trial. They were just ' talking ' to other relatives and embellishing bits of the story and then at some point realized this is no longer ' gossip'. Again, ** speculative**

ETA Once again I messed up the quote / snipped / bold. Sorry stephsb and thanks for your post

 

[Really?]

Oh boy.....ID channel AND HLN have this story of n now.......but I can't take Nancy grace so...........ID it is

 

[missy1974]

In my quick search to find what CPNA means... I found that it's might be CFNA, which means Call Forward No Answer. I have just started reading this, but it's interesting to say the least!
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...t_do_the_data_in_teresas_cellphone_bill_mean/

 

[stephsb]

Oh boy.....ID channel AND HLN have this story of n now.......but I can't take Nancy grace so...........ID it is

Wanted to bash my head into a wall after watching 3 min of Nancy's take on this case the other day. It was awful


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[Tawny]

Wanted to bash my head into a wall after watching 3 min of Nancy's take on this case the other day. It was awful


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I honestly can't with her. My tolerance level for her shenanigans is below zero lol

 

[Really?]

Wanted to bash my head into a wall after watching 3 min of Nancy's take on this case the other day. It was awful


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And unfortunately its Kratz explaining the case......on ID

 

[Tawny]

And unfortunately its Kratz explaining the case......on ID

ID has honestly confused me lately. They took on another story and got only one side of it and it was COMPLETELY wrong. I mean out of this world completely wrong. They didn't even access the records for this other case, they just went off of what the person was telling them and did a whole show on it.

 

[SCHMAE]

So it is true that DNA from Avery's SWEAT was found on the latch of her RAV 4 hood and that Brendan had stated in one of his confessions that Steven had opened her hood to remove the battery cable? Also, the DNA found on the car key was also from his sweat? How can sweat be planted? Also, he made THREE phone calls to Theresa that day: two using *67 and one much later in the evening not using *67? And her palm pilot and something else (can't remember) was found in his burn barrel? Also, reading through Brendan's entire confession (the transcripts can be found online), he wasn't as "led" to answers as was insinuated and actually gave some details that turned out to be accurate on his own

I did watch the entire documentary and, yes, there are several huge issues with the evidence against him. However, I keep in mind that the documentary obviously has a bias, as they left out some important details and evidence against him. I just cannot grasp the idea that LE went through this process of framing him to the extent of planting bones in his own burn pit, etc. So what is the thought here: Police killed her? Or they happened upon her dead body and thought "oh great...an opportunity to frame Steven Avery again!" It seems to me if they wanted to shut him up, there were other ways they could have done it without going through this very risky process of framing him and his 16 year old nephew.

I honestly do not know what to think, but after looking at some of the evidence that was not presented in the documentary, I am not as quick to say he is innocent as others seem to be. The biggest thing for me in not declaring him 100% guilty though is the lack of blood evidence found on his property. Very very puzzling case. I honestly do not know what to think!

When the RAV4 was found , was the battery cable missing? TIA

 

[SCHMAE]

I honestly can't with her. My tolerance level for her shenanigans is below zero lol

There is an entire thread here devoted to complaining about NG if anyone feels the need !

 

[stephsb]

Until we've seen the context of Barb and Kayla's interviews, we have no idea how they gave the statements. I truly believe Kayla's were exaggerated and downright made up in areas. Like Brendan, she was just a child, in a very adult situation. If we can accept that Brendan would lie about raping and slitting a woman's throat, it shouldn't be a huge leap to believe Kayla could have lied in her statements for whatever reason as well. Personally, I felt for her on the stand, I found her tears to be real, and found her to be distressed. No one likes to admit in open court they made up stories, and I think she felt bad for what she did. She was given the chance to go back and affirm her original statements and continue lying (plenty of witnesses have), but she didn't. JMO

Snipped and bold by me. This is wild speculation on my part but here goes. Maybe Kayla and Brendan were tired of their uncle who some claim molested his minor relatives. Maybe he was really arrogant and bossy with the whole family after being released. Many posters have noted his sense of entitlement in some of the phone calls. Maybe these kids thought they can make their uncle look bad without realizing the impact those statement would make until later at trial. They were just ' talking ' to other relatives and embellishing bits of the story and then at some point realized this is no longer ' gossip'. Again, ** speculative**

ETA Once again I messed up the quote / snipped / bold. Sorry stephsb and thanks for your post

I mostly agree w. your speculation on this. I tend to think Brendan's testimony was more driven by what he thought he should say than any animosity towards Steven. There's no negative stories (true or not) about Steven until the 5/13 interview. Maybe at that point he realized finally he was in a serious mess and it was time for Steven to start taking the blame so he could get out- his idea was to start making him look as bad as possible. Just speculation, but could see that happening. I tend to discredit the molestation charges but do believe the story where he talks about some fight when he's pulled out of the van.

As for Kayla, her testimony implicated Brendan more, maybe she had seen he was acting abnormal, and blew it way out of proportion because of different things she had been hearing? She believed Avery was guilty, saw Brendan acting strange, and just read into his behavior way too much?

With both of them being children, it's just so hard to tell why they told the lies they did. I do agree though that they both were in way over their head and completely underestimated the serious consequences their embellishment and lies would bring. I would love to see the transcripts of kaylas statements.


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[Sweetgrits]

I'll give it that the investigation was shoddy at best but the evidence is overwhelming IMO that he kidnapped, brutally raped and tortured, murdered, dismembered and disposed this woman's body. There is no way in hell that LE could have secured her body parts and put them along with her phone and other belongings with steel-belted tires into a burn barrel and burned it twenty feet from his back door without him knowing about it. There are witnesses who saw him burning things in the burn barrel. Tires burning put out a thick black fire. How can that be explained? In order for all the evidence, blood, sweat, phone calls, her trip out to the junk yard, her car hidden, plus dozens of other evidence to be planted you would have to have the "perfect storm" along with a all planets lined up in a perfect line, a purple moon, hell two purple moons, snow storm in July in Miami, you name it, would have to happen.

Some of you say that 'he doesn't look like a murderer',well to me he, with his total lack of facial expression and total lack of any empathy for the victim appears to be just what he is, IMO, a 'cold-blooded' psychopath. He drew sketches of his "torture chamber" he wanted to build when he got out of prison so that he could torture women. Think about how he must have hated women because a 'woman' had put him in prison for 18 years for a crime he did not commit. That is called 'motive'. He chose her and he lured her out to his home and she was never seen again. Her car was hidden among the junk cars and his sweat was under the hood on the latch. His blood in her car. There is actually so much evidence it would take a while to type it out. jmo

What if SA did kill Harbach? I originally thought maybe it wasn't planned but was a result of rape and kidnapping that got too violent but no, SA would absolutely know he couldn't let her leave his garage alive. But for the most damning evidence, moved bones, key found days later, bullet found in garage, couldn't SA plant those things himself? Or had someone in family plant some evidence while SA was in jail. He knows it's public knowledge that he just spent 18 years in prison, for a crime he didn't commit so maybe Steve thought if he planted clues that could definitely be proven suspect the Manitowoc police would never try to convict him again. Boy was he wrong. Also, if he did get out of this because of police misconduct, he could sue for even more money. I think SA didn't realize how wrong he was.

I believe he's guilty of this murder. There is just too many things that would require dozens of people to be involved in a conspiracy. Rogue LE may do some underhanded things and may even lie for each other but that would be just a few people not the entire department, the DA and the FBI. It just doesn't seem reasonable to me All JMO.

 

[stephsb]

So it is true that DNA from Avery's SWEAT was found on the latch of her RAV 4 hood and that Brendan had stated in one of his confessions that Steven had opened her hood to remove the battery cable? Also, the DNA found on the car key was also from his sweat? How can sweat be planted? Also, he made THREE phone calls to Theresa that day: two using *67 and one much later in the evening not using *67? And her palm pilot and something else (can't remember) was found in his burn barrel? Also, reading through Brendan's entire confession (the transcripts can be found online), he wasn't as "led" to answers as was insinuated and actually gave some details that turned out to be accurate on his own

I did watch the entire documentary and, yes, there are several huge issues with the evidence against him. However, I keep in mind that the documentary obviously has a bias, as they left out some important details and evidence against him. I just cannot grasp the idea that LE went through this process of framing him to the extent of planting bones in his own burn pit, etc. So what is the thought here: Police killed her? Or they happened upon her dead body and thought "oh great...an opportunity to frame Steven Avery again!" It seems to me if they wanted to shut him up, there were other ways they could have done it without going through this very risky process of framing him and his 16 year old nephew.

I honestly do not know what to think, but after looking at some of the evidence that was not presented in the documentary, I am not as quick to say he is innocent as others seem to be. The biggest thing for me in not declaring him 100% guilty though is the lack of blood evidence found on his property. Very very puzzling case. I honestly do not know what to think!

I posted earlier last night the testimony about opening the hood. It is from the 3/1 interview. I am not certain if the 5/13 interview mentions it, so I will look for that specifically when I am home later. Brendan was fed the information about the hood, that was definitely more than insinuation. He was explicitly told about the gun and her being shot in he head, there was no insinuation their either. Because Brendan was a child with below average intelligence, he should have been handled carefully to make sure the information given to him was not suggested to him in anyway. Because children and people with lower IQs are more likely to tell police what they believe they want to hear, it's crucial they don't hint at the information they want, or outright give the information to him, like these two investigators did. I would say almost nothing in his 3/1 confession was given without suggestion. This becomes more clear when reading the 2/29 interviews.


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[Tawny]

I believe he's guilty of this murder. There is just too many things that would require dozens of people to be involved in a conspiracy. Rogue LE may do some underhanded things and may even lie for each other but that would be just a few people not the entire department, the DA and the FBI. It just doesn't seem reasonable to me All JMO.

RSBM, I can't find my previous post on this, but it actually only takes 1 or 2 conspirators to plant evidence, and then dozens who either have no reason NOT to believe the conspirators, or not enough reason to care. All it would take is, say, Colborn and Lenk to bolster the crime scene with planted evidence, and the other counties and FBI wouldn't have any reason NOT to believe the evidence is real.

 

[JanIreland]

Nathan Mattews cut his poor sister up in his tiny extremely messy bathroom and manages to clean it up and leave none of her dna ....it's not impossible , as i'm guessing cutting someone up in a tiny bathroom is a little messier then shooting someone in a garage . Nathan was no genius mastermind.

 

[missy1974]

I checked Jerry Buting's Twitter, I was curious to see if he had any comments about SA's new lawyers. He had tweeted this
Jerome Buting ‏@JButing 5h5 hours ago
Good summary answering State's claim about other "evidence" not included, http://jenniferjslate.com/2016/01/04/what-did-netflixs-making-a-murderer-leave-out/

it's interesting

 

[Kakidoll]

going 'out there' to throw another theory into the fire. I think the brothers, et al... were jealous of the possible money coming to SA. I can definitely see them trying to frame him with the uneducated thinking that as family they may get some of the 'windfall' that was possibly coming to him. If he's in jail... family gets it. Wrong thinking but I don't think any of them are at the top end of the IQ scale.

 

[GigiG]

I checked Jerry Buting's Twitter, I was curious to see if he had any comments about SA's new lawyers. He had tweeted this
Jerome Buting ‏@JButing 5h5 hours ago
Good summary answering State's claim about other "evidence" not included, http://jenniferjslate.com/2016/01/04/what-did-netflixs-making-a-murderer-leave-out/

it's interesting

Thank you for sharing this. I enjoyed reading the comments, too.

 

[Sweetgrits]

RSBM, I can't find my previous post on this, but it actually only takes 1 or 2 conspirators to plant evidence, and then dozens who either have no reason NOT to believe the conspirators, or not enough reason to care. All it would take is, say, Colborn and Lenk to bolster the crime scene with planted evidence, and the other counties and FBI wouldn't have any reason NOT to believe the evidence is real.

I respectfully disagree. SA had just filed a multi-million dollar law suit against Manitowoc county and some individuals for putting him in prison for 18 years for something he didn't do. They did it knowing there were alibis from Avery's family and receipts to prove that that he wasn't involved. While the parties involved denied doing anything wrong and while nobody as far as I know was fired for the making mistakes you can still bet a few people got a serious a$$ chewing for the mistakes that were made. So even if there were just one or two people trying to plant evidence how did they do it without being seen? How did they get TH's bones into a burn pit on the Avery's property? From the day Ms. Halbach's car was found that entire property would have a large police presence round the clock so I don't see an opportunity for the MCSO to plant those bones. For me the biggest question of all was who killed her? I find it just too unbelievable that LE would kill a young woman just to frame Steven Avery.

JMO

 

[Tawny]

I respectfully disagree. SA had just filed a multi-million dollar law suit against Manitowoc county and some individuals for putting him in prison for 18 years for something he didn't do. They did it knowing there were alibis from Avery's family and receipts to prove that that he wasn't involved. While the parties involved denied doing anything and while nobody as far as I know was fired you can still bet a few people got a serious a$$ chewing for the mistakes that were made. So even if there were just one or two people trying to plant evidence how did they do it without being seen? How did they get TH's bones into a burn pit on the Avery's property? From the day Ms. Halbach's car was found that entire property would have a large police presence round the clock so I don't see an opportunity for the MCSO to plant those bones. For me the biggest question of all was who killed her? I find it just too unbelievable that LE would kill a young woman just to frame Steven Avery.

JMO

I don't think the police department killed her. I think they saw an opportunity to pin it on SA, not caring who actually did it.