Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #5

[dexter75]

I'm not sure I believe this.

Under age 18, doesn't the law HAVE to pick up the charges whether this family wanted to or not?

ANY type of unwanted sexual contact is against the LAW.
The law HATES SA in this county.

I'm a bit confused on it is all?

Not at all saying that this family DOESN'T have issue's. They CLEARLY do!

Missy, I believe it was on Reddit and I'll try and find it. There are various references (w/o the name and fishing) as to a young female relative of SA's claiming molestation.

http://stevenaverycase.com/steven-a...accusitions-against-him/#sthash.Hrd0BEeZ.dpbs

 

[Chewy]

What's really interesting about the Avery case is how many people watched the "documentary" and just accepted the angle that Avery was framed the first time hook line and sinker. Never realizing that they were being manipulated by the people who made the film. (And as I've pointed out elsewhere, this wasn't a completed documentary when it was sold to Netflix. They had a few episodes and were told how they wanted it to be played out. Then they finished it for Netflix)

In my opinion they didn't FRAME Avery for the first crime at all. They "thought they had their guy" and used tunnel vision to convict him. But it wasn't based on just conjuring up evidence. The victim truly thought Avery was the guy. And he looks very similar to the actual perpetrator. It seems to me that when the victim described the rapist, the police "recognized Avery" in her description and went after him thinking he was guilty.

The whole angle of a deliberate framing of Avery was facilitated by the lawsuit. You can get a certain amount of money if you are unfairly incarcerated, but if you were framed by the police we're talking millions of dollars. Which was his original intention.


I was directed to this video by Ryan Ferguson, and so when I started watching it I totally thought Avery was innocent. But as it got further into the case my position changed. After a while I thought "they knew he did it, but since DNA evidence in the old case was so important, they planted the blood evidence because they felt they wouldn't have gotten a conviction without it."

But I do think Avery killed her. Many people are also presenting Avery as this unpowerful redneck steamrolled by the police. And while this may have happened the first time, at the time of the murder he was surrounded by extremely powerful people fighting for him. Two civil lawyers and even the Legislature.

It was introduced in 2005 by Representative Mark Gundrum of the Wisconsin Assembly Judiciary Committee thanks to the work of the Avery Task Force, "a diverse group of bipartisan lawmakers, criminal justice experts and others from around the state, charged with devising recommendations to improve the state’s criminal justice system to lessen the chance that innocent people are imprisoned," the Journal reports.

http://www.bustle.com/articles/1306...murderer-gets-into-some-important-legislation

By starting the "documentary" with the angle that Avery had been deliberately framed the first time, it bolsters the idea that he is innocent the second time as well. I've discussed this case with many people and those who think he is innocent all seem to have a blind spot with regard to how they were basically spoon fed their interpretation of the TH case before the evidence was shown. So everything is viewed as suspect and it makes sense in that narrative.

A really good example of how people can be manipulated by a documentary is the one called The Imposter.

http://imposterfilm.com/

Spoilers below.

In this case a French Con Artist who had spent the better part of several years impersonating missing children (He'd pretend that he had been found years later after escaping a sex smuggling ring) convinced the government in Europe and the family in America that he was their missing son. Even though it's really obvious he couldn't be, he was allowed to return "home."

He manages in this documentary to convince people that the reason they took him home is that they killed their own son and were using him to cover up the crime. By the end of the film people are trying to get the family charged with murdering their own son.

It's interesting because the whole point is that the Con Artist is really good at manipulating people to believe in his lies. Yet the viewers of the documentary are completely duped by him into believing this new conspiracy.

People need to take a step back and not just assume Avery was framed in the first case. There is absolutely no evidence that he was.

 

[Sustained]

People need to take a step back and not just assume Avery was framed in the first case. There is absolutely no evidence that he was.

I don't think that anyone on this board thinks Avery was framed for the Beersten rape.

 

[Jaiddie]

I don't think that anyone on this board thinks Avery was framed for the Beersten rape.

I would not go so far as to say he was 100% framed in the first rape case, but I wouldn't rule it out either as the sketch looks remarkably like it could have been traced from his previous mugshot (see link I included with a gif that demonstrates this). Even more suspicious, is the fact that Kusche went so far as to actually FRAME the two, (mugshot/sketch), together to keep in his office.

It actually doesn't matter if the first conviction was due to them actually framing him or not, because I believe the civil suit was more so to do with the '95 phone call that was INTENTIONALLY buried. This is now known to be a fact, as even Sheriff Peterson, himself, admitted (though, I', sure it was unintentional, he slipped up) that he KNEW about the call back in '95.

http://imgur.com/gallery/nQunP9S

Edit: Formatting

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I don't think that anyone on this board thinks Avery was framed for the Beersten rape.

I believe he was railroaded in the first case, does that count? I believe that they chose him to be the suspect and fed the witness information to get her to believe it too. That is framed in my book.

 

[Justiceseeker35]

I believe he was railroaded in the first case, does that count? I believe that they chose him to be the suspect and fed the witness information to get her to believe it too. That is framed in my book.

I believe the same thing too, once they started down that road they couldn't get off track without looking incompetent. GA attacked PB on their watch. But SA was going to be who they prosecuted for it.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I believe the same thing too, once they started down that road they couldn't get off track without looking incompetent. GA attacked PB on their watch. But SA was going to be who they prosecuted for it.

What happened in that case is really horrible. It was the worst of the worst and in my opinion the officers that participated in the wrongful railroading of SA should have lost their jobs and worse. They abused their position and used it to hurt an innocent person.

What bothers me in the TH case is that I see evidence that only points to him and with him saying I hope they don't frame me at the start before anything was going on, that seems to me like he was looking for an alibi.

My issue with the murder of TH is that for him to be framed for it, It means EVERYONE was in on it. The FBI, every officer on the scene, and to go further that someone murder her to frame him. That is the only reason she would be found there if he did not do it.

IF he did not do it, Someone killed her and burned her and hid her car on his property all to frame him. There would be no other reason for the evidence and I don't believe that. I think the evidence points to him overwhelmingly. The rape case, that hinged on the witness but in this case, there is just too much to push it aside.

 

[MysticJynx]

What happened in that case is really horrible. It was the worst of the worst and in my opinion the officers that participated in the wrongful railroading of SA should have lost their jobs and worse. They abused their position and used it to hurt an innocent person.

What bothers me in the TH case is that I see evidence that only points to him and with him saying I hope they don't frame me at the start before anything was going on, that seems to me like he was looking for an alibi.

My issue with the murder of TH is that for him to be framed for it, It means EVERYONE was in on it. The FBI, every officer on the scene, and to go further that someone murder her to frame him. That is the only reason she would be found there if he did not do it.

IF he did not do it, Someone killed her and burned her and hid her car on his property all to frame him. There would be no other reason for the evidence and I don't believe that. I think the evidence points to him overwhelmingly. The rape case, that hinged on the witness but in this case, there is just too much to push it aside.

Not everyone But everyone did turn a blind eye. The state and the county were looking at monetary loss. Money makes good people do bad things sometimes. Its human. I think All the way up to the DOJ and AG was part of turning a blind eye while maybe a handful framed him. Whole state needs to be investigated from the AG down to the Juror who volunteered for the Sheriff's office.
JMO


JMO

 

[Sustained]

What happened in that case is really horrible. It was the worst of the worst and in my opinion the officers that participated in the wrongful railroading of SA should have lost their jobs and worse. They abused their position and used it to hurt an innocent person.

What bothers me in the TH case is that I see evidence that only points to him and with him saying I hope they don't frame me at the start before anything was going on, that seems to me like he was looking for an alibi.

My issue with the murder of TH is that for him to be framed for it, It means EVERYONE was in on it. The FBI, every officer on the scene, and to go further that someone murder her to frame him. That is the only reason she would be found there if he did not do it.

IF he did not do it, Someone killed her and burned her and hid her car on his property all to frame him. There would be no other reason for the evidence and I don't believe that. I think the evidence points to him overwhelmingly. The rape case, that hinged on the witness but in this case, there is just too much to push it aside.

Don't you think if someone actually did frame SA that the evidence would also point to him overwhelmingly ?

I don't think the FBI had to be involved as their only contribution was the EDTA testing and it's been shown that blood spots that don't contain EDTA does not mean that EDTA did not exist in the sample from which they were taken.

As for every officer on the scene, again no - there were times when just a handful of officers were at the Avery property.

I am 80% convinced that SA is guilty; BD not so much. But if SA did commit the crime, it takes an enormous level of arrogance to think everyone would think it's a "plant" job if SA were to leave all evidence on the Avery property.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Not everyone But everyone did turn a blind eye. The state and the county were looking at monetary loss. Money makes good people do bad things sometimes. Its human. I think All the way up to the DOJ and AG was part of turning a blind eye while maybe a handful framed him. Whole state needs to be investigated from the AG down to the Juror who volunteered for the Sheriff's office.
JMO


JMO

The thing is I don't see the state paying having anything to do with this. It was not coming from personal police accounts and even if he is arrested and charged that does not change his settlement from the rape case.
I don't see how the pay out from the prior case has anything to do with this.. They would have to be really stupid and really lucky..

My problem is the amount of officers involved. The evidence being found later doesn't phase me because it is not the first time officers have gone over a crime scene and found more evidence.

For me when I see this case, I have 2 options and only one fits.

 

[missy1974]

IMO the money had a lot to do with it. That and maybe a bit of pride. There were some officers involved in that first case that even after he was exonerated, they refused to believe he was innocent and did not rape PB. There were some officers that were personally named in the lawsuit.... they were personally liable. Their insurance was not going to cover them. (I know I linked the document here at some point, no idea where to find it now LOL). Even Colborn said the thought crossed his mind that he could personally be added to the lawsuit.

Being in jail... I'm not sure there was any other option but to settle that case so he could pay for lawyers.

 

[wagner92]

I am pretty fairly convinced that SA is guilty and BD helped cover up the crime. This, after not just watching the obviously biased documentary, but by researching trial transcripts, etc. Watching the series and the way they presented SA didn't sit well with me. It seemed too convincing that the guy was a completely innocent person. Good dramatic filmmaking but not necessarily an evenly presented documentary.

Just listened to some of Rebutting a Murderer on iHeart Radio. It was interesting to see some of the information not presented in the doc, laid out in the podcast. The shear amount of omissions from the doc are really pretty startling. Highly recommend the podcast:

http://www.iheart.com/show/139-Rebutting-a-Murderer/

and of course the stevenaverycase.com site for transcripts and such.

All jmo, of course.

 

[dexter75]

I read on one of the sites, that Coborn was running/contemplating running for Sheriff, either during or prior to the lawsuit, has anyone else? It wouldn't have looked good for him and blah blah.

Curious if this is rumor? (I am sorry if not allowed to ask. I'm not sure if I've asked anything like this or not publicly. I usually PM Missy or someone else, depending on the case I'm reading about )

Also read Teresa's mom worked for the Calamut County Clerks office?
Anyone know of this to be true?

IMO the money had a lot to do with it. That and maybe a bit of pride. There were some officers involved in that first case that even after he was exonerated, they refused to believe he was innocent and did not rape PB. There were some officers that were personally named in the lawsuit.... they were personally liable. Their insurance was not going to cover them. (I know I linked the document here at some point, no idea where to find it now LOL). Even Colborn said the thought crossed his mind that he could personally be added to the lawsuit.

Being in jail... I'm not sure there was any other option but to settle that case so he could pay for lawyers.

 

[missy1974]

I read on one of the sites, that Coborn was running/contemplating running for Sheriff, either during or prior to the lawsuit, has anyone else? It wouldn't have looked good for him and blah blah.

Curious if this is rumor? (I am sorry if not allowed to ask. I'm not sure if I've asked anything like this or not publicly. I usually PM Missy or someone else, depending on the case I'm reading about )

Also read Teresa's mom worked for the Calamut County Clerks office?
Anyone know of this to be true?

Colborn did run for Sheriff, it's in his testimony ;-) so no secret! As for TH's mom... I'm not sure about that, I haven't heard anything about where she worked.

 

[dexter75]

How many officers do you think " had " to be involved? I'm curious.

I do not think it was the entire department. Personally, I'd be willing to bet it were one or two with a high probability anyone else that " suspected anything/anyone else, just turned the other cheek" It happens often. Police Departments, Court houses, Military. You simply DO NOT SNITCH, PERIOD.
Example; Someone dear to me works in a court house. In charge of CHILD WELFARE.
Before a NEW computer system was put in worth thousands of dollars, a JUDGE took a folder home for the weekend. This is AGAINST the rules. This judge LOST the folder NEVER to be seen again. Because of this, a FAMILY suffers, a CHILD suffers. This was a CHILD CUSTODY case. No one is going to look this family in the eye and tell the truth. An elaborate lie is made up, they wait longer for a court date, and people higher up go on covering for one another and breaking the rules.
That was nothing big, a true story though.

Here's another. I can be more detailed because it was in the paper AND my loved one isn't at risk of losing their job;
My brother is a recovering HEROIN addict. Years ago he was best friends with our chief of police's son. They would make 2 runs a day, nearly every day to Detroit to get their dope. They also would run scams. ANYTHING, for a fix.

My brother is the most outspoken addict, I've ever come across. He would tell me about the number of times he and his buddy would get pulled over, or have a cop behind them, but because he was THE POLICE CHIEFS SON...the cops ran the plates, saw it was Officer Collins boy, and let em go. Pulled em over, found spoons and needles, and " called daddy " This went on a LONG time.

One day, my brother wasn't with his buddy, on the way to Detroit.

Turns out, he was FLYING up 75 and SLAMMED into a father and son, KILLING the father, because he had nodded out. Being on HEROIN and all. He is still in prison. Cops were notified HERE, going BACK to ALL the times they had pulled him over. SMH

Those are 2 very different, very REAL stories from a small town in Michigan.
One Police Department, an ENTIRE department KNEW and covered for a person until it was too late. Another, a Judge breaking rules and a team covering for him, to keep the place looking good =) Protecting that reputation =)

As far as the lawsuit in the SA case,

The money was indeed affecting SO much more than people realize, IMO

The thing is I don't see the state paying having anything to do with this. It was not coming from personal police accounts and even if he is arrested and charged that does not change his settlement from the rape case.
I don't see how the pay out from the prior case has anything to do with this.. They would have to be really stupid and really lucky..

My problem is the amount of officers involved. The evidence being found later doesn't phase me because it is not the first time officers have gone over a crime scene and found more evidence.

For me when I see this case, I have 2 options and only one fits.

 

[MysticJynx]

Just curious to what anyone would think if Teresa's Aunt that married one of her Fathers brother, Would be the second wife of this uncle. And she this Aunt was blood related as cousin to one of the sheriff's wives? Not sure if this is ok to post. But I had done a little research on it because it was mentioned else where. But for hypothetical purposes, lets say that it was Possible. Do you think that maybe that is how the Halbach's were so lead to believe everything they were being fed? Trust in him because there was a family connection to some sort, even if by marriage? Or do you think that someone in this position should have recused themselves also from the case?

Just wondering, THis is just a what if.

JMO

 

[dexter75]

A LOT of pride.
IMO

Unless you have witnessed this, or know LE, one really can't describe the ego/pride that comes with.
This is NOT always BAD.
I have an Uncle that worked his way up from a rookie cop to Detective ( Retired ) and I have MUCH respect for LE.
That being said, I have also seen enough to know not all are 100% honest & trustworthy.
JMO

I read on one of the sites, that Coborn was running/contemplating running for Sheriff, either during or prior to the lawsuit, has anyone else? It wouldn't have looked good for him and blah blah.

Curious if this is rumor? (I am sorry if not allowed to ask. I'm not sure if I've asked anything like this or not publicly. I usually PM Missy or someone else, depending on the case I'm reading about )

Also read Teresa's mom worked for the Calamut County Clerks office?
Anyone know of this to be true?

 

[dexter75]

I don't think so

I think you are making the TH case to BLACK/WHITE

There is much to be doubted/considered

phone records?
the ex?
was TH killed/ran off the road by someone she knew?

Did one or two police officers seize an opportunity?
One police officer perhaps?

FBI ran their tests, only testing 3 swabs with an outdated/unreliable test. It doesn't mean they are included in anything. Some may think so. But it really doesn't mean much.

I honestly don't believe it has to be EVERYONE or NO ONE, for this to have some type of frame job involved. Nor do I believe Teresa had to be killed for a " purpose"

I think it is plausible for this to have been a crime of passion, perpetrated by someone she knew and coborn or Lenk ( ironically 2 that were humiliated in 85 case ) somehow became aware/notified/stumbled upon and from there, it begins.

I do not believe THIS is any more far fetched than Steve killing her in 1,2 or 3 different places, moving her bones about. Hiding the vehicle. LOCKING the vehicle, because imo, killers do NOT lock vehicles..the FRAMER would, to PRESERVE the evidence.

JMO

What happened in that case is really horrible. It was the worst of the worst and in my opinion the officers that participated in the wrongful railroading of SA should have lost their jobs and worse. They abused their position and used it to hurt an innocent person.

What bothers me in the TH case is that I see evidence that only points to him and with him saying I hope they don't frame me at the start before anything was going on, that seems to me like he was looking for an alibi.

My issue with the murder of TH is that for him to be framed for it, It means EVERYONE was in on it. The FBI, every officer on the scene, and to go further that someone murder her to frame him. That is the only reason she would be found there if he did not do it.

IF he did not do it, Someone killed her and burned her and hid her car on his property all to frame him. There would be no other reason for the evidence and I don't believe that. I think the evidence points to him overwhelmingly. The rape case, that hinged on the witness but in this case, there is just too much to push it aside.

 

[MysticJynx]

The thing is I don't see the state paying having anything to do with this. It was not coming from personal police accounts and even if he is arrested and charged that does not change his settlement from the rape case.
I don't see how the pay out from the prior case has anything to do with this.. They would have to be really stupid and really lucky..

My problem is the amount of officers involved. The evidence being found later doesn't phase me because it is not the first time officers have gone over a crime scene and found more evidence.

For me when I see this case, I have 2 options and only one fits.

But they were signing a state BILL that was in his Name. they didn't want that monetary to change either for their mistakes of wrongful conviction. Which is why it was shortly after he was arrested before trial or proof, they signed it behind closed doors. They needed to tarnish the poster childs name to the extent that would happen. Until recently they still only paid out 5k topped at 25k after that. Meaning for 10 years even though the bill was signed they ignored the use of it. Changed its name. Now just recently they passed another bill. Paying out 50k topped at 1M. But if you Sue you will have to pay any monies you received from the state, back to the state. They sure fixed that since his conviction. The state had monetary loss to all wrongful convicted when the bills were passed.

This is on top of suing the county and possibly winning making a lot of people involved, Including the DOJ who investigated that first crime. LOOK bad. Reputations and Money would be a good reason to turn blind eyes.

When SA started to claim in the beginning the DOJ who was on the case through their DCI investigators. Fassbender and a few others, They should have been making sure everythign was by the book. Including keeping the Conflict of interest off the case and crime scenes. Also possibly investigating the Blood being tampered with.

The blood that never should have been opened even by the Fitzgerald character. The court order in 2002 was for hair and clippings. Then he just scotch taped that box, and he was what a DA? When will they hold him responsible for doing that in 2002? Made the access to that blood easy to come by. Making the evidence questionable. That is what they should have been investigating parallel to the cal county investigating the case without the help of the conflict of interest.

They all allowed deviating from almost all the protocols down to taking the pictures of the license plates found in the station wagon. None of the evidence seems to be clean and clear cut. All of it was tainted the moment they allowed for the Man Co. To enter any of this investigation. And LIED to the public that they did back off.

JMO

 

[dexter75]

I honestly do not think people realize this Mystic.

Maybe, do not GRASP what this would actually mean for the STATE OF WISCONSIN??

IMHO

But they were signing a state BILL that was in his Name. they didn't want that monetary to change either for their mistakes of wrongful conviction. Which is why it was shortly after he was arrested before trial or proof, they signed it behind closed doors. They needed to tarnish the poster childs name to the extent that would happen. Until recently they still only paid out 5k topped at 25k after that. Meaning for 10 years even though the bill was signed they ignored the use of it. Changed its name. Now just recently they passed another bill. Paying out 50k topped at 1M. But if you Sue you will have to pay any monies you received from the state, back to the state. They sure fixed that since his conviction. The state had monetary loss to all wrongful convicted when the bills were passed.

This is on top of suing the county and possibly winning making a lot of people involved, Including the DOJ who investigated that first crime. LOOK bad. Reputations and Money would be a good reason to turn blind eyes.

When SA started to claim in the beginning the DOJ who was on the case through their DCI investigators. Fassbender and a few others, They should have been making sure everythign was by the book. Including keeping the Conflict of interest off the case and crime scenes. Also possibly investigating the Blood being tampered with.

The blood that never should have been opened even by the Fitzgerald character. The court order in 2002 was for hair and clippings. Then he just scotch taped that box, and he was what a DA? When will they hold him responsible for doing that in 2002? Made the access to that blood easy to come by. Making the evidence questionable. That is what they should have been investigating parallel to the cal county investigating the case without the help of the conflict of interest.

They all allowed deviating from almost all the protocols down to taking the pictures of the license plates found in the station wagon. None of the evidence seems to be clean and clear cut. All of it was tainted the moment they allowed for the Man Co. To enter any of this investigation. And LIED to the public that they did back off.

JMO