Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery

[stephsb]

My favorite mind blown moment from the series is when the video footage show the officers sitting on the bed in Steven's room. The one TH had her throat slit on.

Then later on during the court part an officer takes the stand and says one of the officers was sitting on the bed when her noticed the key on the floor. I mean if that doesn't show you they know TH wasnt on the bed ,i dunno what would.

Hands down, mine was when Brendan is being interrogated by the investigator for his lawyer, and he gets on the phone to call and offer up all of the forms he had Brendan fill out "for them to do what they want with"...and somehow Brendan ends up in an interview w. The investigators and no attorney. That or when Wiegert grows frustrated w. Brendan not giving him the answer he wants about what happened to Teresa's head and decides to just tell him she was shot. So much failure on both sides for Brendan


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[anya]

On the 9th episode - binge-watched over the course of two day :shame: . The whole Dassey situation is really boggling. Why wasnt there a psychologist or some kind of professional who works with learning disabled and/or special ed/needs kids brought in to reevaluate Dassey and provide evidence that he is mentally handicapped? Just by reading his written statements it is so obvious that at the very MINIMUM he's dyslexic, and his cognitive/mental capacity well below the average 16 (or even 13) year old. "Bombfire". "Terasha". Wanting to go home so he could watch Wrestle Mania. Obviously, admitting to and making up something he did not do. And those interview tapes? Appalling police work. And his public defender, Len Kaminsky (sp?) was/is quite disgusting, imho, especially for allowing HIS client, as a juvenile, to be interviewed more than once without the presence of not only him but a parent (his mother) being present. I thought that was illegal in this country?!

That "search" of the Avery property for 8 freakin days - to which they werent even allowed to be present - is crazy. I'm not a lawyer nor did i ever follow this case 10 years ago while it was happening, so call me ignorant or whatever, but as soon as i saw that episode i practically was shouting "Is this for REAL?! Anybody could meddle with evidence and plant stuff during 8 whole days!" There's a reason for this kind of search being illegal - at least normally!

Also, what PHYSICAL proof (other than a confession which was later recanted and should've been thrown out to the jury) do they have to say Halbach was mutilated, etc. if all that remained of said physical evidence was BURNT????

My head is legit spinning with 100s of questions so i'll stop before i go off the rails. Don't even get me started about the blood/EDTA (sp?) test from the FBI. UGH!!!


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[LemonMousse]

As I said, if you don't believe the FBI would view dousing a cat in gasoline and oil and throwing it in the fire as a future predictor of homicidal behavior, then I respectfully disagree with you. There is no way for us to prove what their personal thoughts on animal abuse as a predictor of homicidal tendencies, so as I said, i am happy to agree to disagree since there is nothing being gained at this point from this discussion. There are plenty of studies showing that animal abuse by itself predicts future violent offenses, including homicide, but there are experts on both sides of the issue.


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No way to view their personal thoughts? I am not interested in their personal thoughts! I thought you said this was in depth research which identified three behaviours that, when taken in conjunction, were a good predictor of future homicidal behaviour!

I think most people's personal thoughts about caticide would be "absolute nutter", but we were, I thought, interested in official FBI psycho profiling!

With Steven you have one out of those three. You cannot cite a triad of behaviours and then only show evidence of one. It's called a triad for a reason.

He just doesn't fit the profile, I'm afraid. Doesn't make him St Steven, of course.

 

[Daisy47]

As I said, if you don't believe the FBI would view dousing a cat in gasoline and oil and throwing it in the fire as a future predictor of homicidal behavior, then I respectfully disagree with you. There is no way for us to prove what their personal thoughts on animal abuse as a predictor of homicidal tendencies, so as I said, i am happy to agree to disagree since there is nothing being gained at this point from this discussion. There are plenty of studies showing that animal abuse by itself predicts future violent offenses, including homicide, but there are experts on both sides of the issue.


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I totally agree regarding the horrific abuse of the cat! At this point, I'm leaning toward SA being guilty. HOWEVER, there is clearly an enormous amount (understatement) of corruption in that county. Therefore imo, Steven deserves a new trial. (And Brendan should be free).

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[RainCheck]

How do we know that was even Teresa's actual key ? You could go to the dealership and get extra keys and that would explain why her DNA is nowhere on the key . Also, I found it a little bit odd that it was just her key on one plain strap. I mean yes that can happen, but most folks, especially fema
le, have a few things dangling off the keychain as well. That is what got me to thinking that key could have come from the dealership. **speculative**

I'm a female and I only carry one single car key on a key ring. No additional keys or decorations. I've seen this brought up several times in reference to this cause and it never crossed my mind as odd since I carry a single key.

 

[RainCheck]

I followed this case long before it was a documentary so it's interesting to see it become so popular now. After watching the series, reading this entire thread and relying on what I could remember, I think Brendan at worst help after the fact and at worst had absolutely not to do with any of it. Regardless, he did not receive competent representation or a fair trial. He should walk free as far as I'm concerned. As far as Steven Avery is concerned, he creeps me out and always has. He's not a likable person and he's proven himself to be dangerous as well. I think it's very possible he did commit this crime, but I don't think that matters because the investigation was so corrupt, so mishandled it would be nearly impossible to every know he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. In fact, all of the evidence was so tampered with or, as in the case of allowing the vehicle to be rained, so improperly handled that no one could ever be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Steven Avery should get a new trial and the investigators should be investigated. I understand Steven Avery and many of his family members were despicable and the proverbial thorn in the side of law enforcement. I understand why they wanted to see him in prison the first time and even more so the second time, but they do not have the right to plant evidence and railroad someone. No matter how despicable a person may be or future crimes you think they might commit, this isn't Minority Report, every single person deserves a fair investigation and trial. Neither of the men convicted in the death of this beautiful, vibrant young lady got that. Like I said, I don't think it would even be possible at this point. It will be very ironic if Steven Avery is freed again, once based on false conviction for a crime he didn't commit and freed again after a conviction for a crime he did commit, but both times because of the arrogance, ignorance and incompetence of the police and prosecutors involved. Emotionally, I have to admit I don't mind the idea of Avery staying prison because I don't like him. On an intellectual level, I know he deserves another trial. Emotionally and intellectual I want Brendon freed!

As far as theories go, if Steven didn't do it, then Chuck did. Chuck is an obvious sexual predator and had the opportunity. I do not believe LE had anything to do with it and were only opportunist who zealously went after some they hated when the chance arose. I think Steven did it or someone else on the property did. I hope we have all the answers someday, but as said already, the case was so botched I have no idea how it could ever happen.

 

[nomoresorrow]

Very interesting and important article here: "12 reasons to worry about our criminal justice system, from a prominent conservative federal judge"

Not only relevant and important to consider in this case, but in all cases that we here on Websleuths sleuth and discuss everyday...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/07/14/12-reasons-to-worry-about-our-criminal-justice-system-from-a-prominent-conservative-federal-judge/

 

[SCHMAE]

My favorite mind blown moment from the series is when the video footage show the officers sitting on the bed in Steven's room. The one TH had her throat slit on.

Then later on during the court part an officer takes the stand and says one of the officers was sitting on the bed when he noticed the key on the floor. I mean if that doesn't show you they know TH wasnt on the bed ,i dunno what would.

The part in trial when defense asked TH's ex boyfriend if the cops had asked him for an alibi OR the roommate and he said " NO" was very telling too. The DA has said they did check others and those closest to the victim. I cannot recall who was on the stand but you all probably do. No one else was asked about an alibi . So how much ' investigating' did they do ? Look at a guy and on a hunch assume he's not involved in this ?

 

[SCHMAE]

I'll check the episode when I get home tonight, but I would hope Colburn wouldn't be transporting him anywhere. Wasn't he still at the Sheboygan County juvenile center during his trial? If so, it should have been Sheboygan PD transporting him. One of my coworkers is a roommate of an officer that transported Dassey to a few court appearances, and he works Sheboygan PD, so they were at least responsible for some of his transport. Hope Colburn wasn't around, although I can't say I'd be surprised. He seems to end up in a lot of places he shouldn't be.


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It looks so much like him but no glasses ? So maybe contacts or another guy. He's also sitting behind defense table during the verdict.

 

[scaredtopost]

I'd never heard of this case before watching the Netflix series. I came back and read TH's thread and was astounded by the belief of his guilt from the very beginning. I've never followed such a one sided case on this forum. Maura Murray's case brought me here and there were such strong opinions on whether or not she disappeared voluntarily or met with foul play. My username was created because you could not post your opinion without receiving harsh criticism from opposing views. With more than 50 pages on TH's thread I saw maybe 3 posts stating he "could" be innocent. There is no possible way he could have received an unbiased jury anywhere in the vacinity of his town. I feel for the Avery family and TH's family. Neither of them received anything close to justice in this case. JMO.

 

[chaleigh26]

I'd never heard of this case before watching the Netflix series. I came back and read TH's thread and was astounded by the belief of his guilt from the very beginning. I've never followed such a one sided case on this forum. Maura Murray's case brought me here and there were such strong opinions on whether or not she disappeared voluntarily or met with foul play. My username was created because you could not post your opinion without receiving harsh criticism from opposing views. With more than 50 pages on TH's thread I saw maybe 3 posts stating he "could" be innocent. There is no possible way he could have received an unbiased jury anywhere in the vacinity of his town. I feel for the Avery family and TH's family. Neither of them received anything close to justice in this case. JMO.

I only got through half of the TH thread, the comments made me want to claw my own eyes out.

 

[stephsb]

On the 9th episode - binge-watched over the course of two day :shame: . The whole Dassey situation is really boggling. Why wasnt there a psychologist or some kind of professional who works with learning disabled and/or special ed/needs kids brought in to reevaluate Dassey and provide evidence that he is mentally handicapped? Just by reading his written statements it is so obvious that at the very MINIMUM he's dyslexic, and his cognitive/mental capacity well below the average 16 (or even 13) year old. "Bombfire". "Terasha". Wanting to go home so he could watch Wrestle Mania. Obviously, admitting to and making up something he did not do. And those interview tapes? Appalling police work. And his public defender, Len Kaminsky (sp?) was/is quite disgusting, imho, especially for allowing HIS client, as a juvenile, to be interviewed more than once without the presence of not only him but a parent (his mother) being present. I thought that was illegal in this country?!

That "search" of the Avery property for 8 freakin days - to which they werent even allowed to be present - is crazy. I'm not a lawyer nor did i ever follow this case 10 years ago while it was happening, so call me ignorant or whatever, but as soon as i saw that episode i practically was shouting "Is this for REAL?! Anybody could meddle with evidence and plant stuff during 8 whole days!" There's a reason for this kind of search being illegal - at least normally!

Also, what PHYSICAL proof (other than a confession which was later recanted and should've been thrown out to the jury) do they have to say Halbach was mutilated, etc. if all that remained of said physical evidence was BURNT????

My head is legit spinning with 100s of questions so i'll stop before i go off the rails. Don't even get me started about the blood/EDTA (sp?) test from the FBI. UGH!!!


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Feel your pain w. using Tapatalk. Frustrates me so much sometimes lol.

Minors being interviewed by police have no legal right to having their parent present, unless they personally request it. They may request a parent or lawyer be present, and refuse to answer questions until then, but police aren't obligated to contact the parent. I think this is definitely something that should be taught better or changed. Police should at least have to call the parent, JMO

As for his learning disabilities, I think they knew and just used it to their advantage, since combined w. His age, it would make it much more easy to get the answers they want from Brendan. His case is just sad all around.

That Kratz did an article published in People yesterday where he says how he feels sorry for Brendan because if he had just listened to Kachinsky and taken a plea, they would have helped him avoid such a long sentence since they knew it was his uncles fault. I mean really, these guys are insufferable


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[stephsb]

I'd never heard of this case before watching the Netflix series. I came back and read TH's thread and was astounded by the belief of his guilt from the very beginning. I've never followed such a one sided case on this forum. Maura Murray's case brought me here and there were such strong opinions on whether or not she disappeared voluntarily or met with foul play. My username was created because you could not post your opinion without receiving harsh criticism from opposing views. With more than 50 pages on TH's thread I saw maybe 3 posts stating he "could" be innocent. There is no possible way he could have received an unbiased jury anywhere in the vacinity of his town. I feel for the Avery family and TH's family. Neither of them received anything close to justice in this case. JMO.

I disagree that Avery couldn't get a fair trial anywhere in the vicinity of Manitowoc. Tbh, I think it should have been moved further than Calumet, but the jury did vote not guilty on the Mutilation of a corpse charge and their initial jury pool had votes for not guilty on the murder charge, so when it came down to it, they were willing to consider and deliberate on the charges. I think what would be a better idea would be to cover the case as little as possible in the media until the jury is selected and sequestered- think of how many cases have been worse even than Avery's as far the media is concerned. Casey Anthony was absolutely tried and convicted in the court of public opinion, yet got a fair trial and a not guilty verdict. Even so, her life will never be the same. We've really got to be careful, IMO, about how much we influence the jury pool through the media.


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[Itsmevkb]

He was suing for $36m so he was at least hopeful of a large payout. His release from prison wasn't just another convict having done his time....he was on the news and famous. So, sorry...but no way is it comparable. No way.

That he had previously offended says nothing whatsoever about whether or not he committed this crime. There is a reason such information is withheld during court cases....because it is irrelevant.

And, to be honest, your assumption that he must have been "escalating" is the reason that juries are not told information like this....because they'll jump to illogical and judgemental conclusions like you have.

SA may have done it....he may not. Past behaviour says nothing either way. If you think it does, then I hope you are using the same logic to consider all the Avery brothers and Scott Tadych.

I have to say that it annoys me intensely that people keep going on and on and on about this cat. Horrible, horrible thing to do.....but how the hell does it compare with the brutal murder of a fellow human being? I also remain unimpressed with the jumping out with an empty gun business. That woman's statement was falsified, she clearly hated him and without her bad-mouthing him all over the place, it is unlikely to have happened at all. It is not at all the same thing as the motiveless MURDER of Theresa.

Oh...and he'd still be in prison now? So what? He wouldn't be facing the rest of his life in there and we wouldn't be discussing the case at all.

I mention the cat because unfortunately I've found that people today often have more sympathy for animals being killed than human beings. It is a shocking crime, although I find him assaulting the woman to be much,much worse.

Although the jury didn't hear about his past convictions, past criminal acts are considered by the court when sentencing people. So, the criminal justice system does consider them relevant.

I don't assume he was escalating, he was. Killing the cat was more serious than robbing the bar and assaulting the woman was more serious than both of his previous crimes.

Are you blaming the assault victim saying she brought that on herself? It was an empty gun? How much would it matter to you if after someone ran you off the road and brandished a rifle at you and only let you go because you had a baby in the car to find out the gun wasn't loaded? It's not about if the gun was loaded, it's about the fear the victim has and also that he was a convicted felon at this point and not allowed to possess a gun at all, loaded or unloaded.

I do use the same logic with his brothers and Tadych but that doesn't preclude me from thinking Steven killed Teresa. Often times crimes seem motiveless to us, it doesn't mean killing the person didn't satisfy some sick need of the murderer. The motive can be as simple as some people have a strong desire to hurt others or use violence as a way to get out their anger and rage at others.

I'm just saying that even if you believe he didn't kill Teresa he won't be wrongfully serving any time in prison until after 2017. That gives him some time to keep working on his appeals before he can claim he's in prison for something he didn't do. I don't think his appeals will get too far but I guess you just never know. Recently in Wisconsin a man convicted of killing his wife with anti-freeze was granted habeas relief and will be getting a new trial so it does happen.

 

[SCHMAE]

If you follow WS a lot then you know many believe that animal cruelty is a pre cursor to violence against humans. Take it for what it's worth. JS

 

[TheDuchess]

Previous patterns are not evidence for a reason. For example, my son ding dong ditched a neighbor who called the cops on him. We sorted out apologized etc.. Then his mailbox got knocked down one night and he called the cops on my son convinced it had to be him! I thank God that I was able to provide an airtight alibi for my son because we were all out of the state for that entire weekend. If not I would be scared to think. Wouldn't put it past him does not equal must have done it.


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[SCHMAE]

Previous patterns are not evidence for a reason. For example, my son ding dong ditched a neighbor who called the cops on him. We sorted out apologized etc.. Then his mailbox got knocked down one night and he called the cops on my son convinced it had to be him! I thank God that I was able to provide an airtight alibi for my son because we were all out of the state for that entire weekend. If not I would be scared to think. Wouldn't put it past him does not equal must have done it.


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Respectively, ringing a doorbell is not nearly as negative behavior as killing a cat on purpose. And the link between animal cruelty as a youth and violence as an adult has been well documented. I'm not saying it should have been evidence in his trial by any means. One of the first times we hear Avery speak in the 10 part docu is him saying he threw that family cat in the fire. That's not childhood hooligan behavior like toilet papering a house or ding dong ditch. The two are not in the same class of behavior at all. moo

ETA And NO it does not mean he killed Teresa. I wondered about that cat , though. Did he try to throw the cat over the fire ? A lot of kids think ' cats land on their feet no matter what' and test that theory with some rather mean experiments. That is not ok but it's not the same as throwing the cat ' into the fire' to see if it got burned because of course anything you throw in a fire will get burned. I did wonder about that very thing.

 

[RainCheck]

Previous patterns are not evidence for a reason. For example, my son ding dong ditched a neighbor who called the cops on him. We sorted out apologized etc.. Then his mailbox got knocked down one night and he called the cops on my son convinced it had to be him! I thank God that I was able to provide an airtight alibi for my son because we were all out of the state for that entire weekend. If not I would be scared to think. Wouldn't put it past him does not equal must have done it.


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Not the same. Also, previous crimes can be used as evidence in a current trial. This is an article which I think explains this well...

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...dmissible-against-defendants-who-testify.html

 

[Soulmagent]

I'd never heard of this case before watching the Netflix series. I came back and read TH's thread and was astounded by the belief of his guilt from the very beginning. I've never followed such a one sided case on this forum. Maura Murray's case brought me here and there were such strong opinions on whether or not she disappeared voluntarily or met with foul play. My username was created because you could not post your opinion without receiving harsh criticism from opposing views. With more than 50 pages on TH's thread I saw maybe 3 posts stating he "could" be innocent. There is no possible way he could have received an unbiased jury anywhere in the vacinity of his town. I feel for the Avery family and TH's family. Neither of them received anything close to justice in this case. JMO.

The Guy Heize Jr thread is like that too.

I think his case needs a look. It really might be possible he was wrongfully convicted with misrepresented evidence and facts. BBC made a documentary and recorded his entire trial but they wont show it an the USA. The Judge in that case was involved some unethical stuff ,the Polygraph expert faced charges relating to his case. Not even to mention the problems. I don't know if he is factually guilty but the issues in his trial are some the issues that the Strang is hoping people look at across the board.

 

[angelainwi]

Very interesting and important article here: "12 reasons to worry about our criminal justice system, from a prominent conservative federal judge"

Not only relevant and important to consider in this case, but in all cases that we here on Websleuths sleuth and discuss everyday...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/07/14/12-reasons-to-worry-about-our-criminal-justice-system-from-a-prominent-conservative-federal-judge/

Many of the 12 seem to apply in the Avery case.