New Details of Josh's Brainwashing Techniques

[Emma Peel]

How the evidence could have not been enough to keep children totally away from this man who turned out to be a serial killer is amazing. He even had a wet freshly cleaned spot by the door drying with a fan running. Susan showed evidence of being drugged earlier in the evening and then went missing. If the little boys said the two went into a cave, then maybe they ought to start searching caves.

NK.

Shame on Utah.

 

[Emma Peel]

The therapist's report was based, as I understand it, on a single assessment visit rather than on ongoing therapy.

As distasteful as it sounds, parents do still have First Amendment rights. A parent can teach their child that Mormons, Jews, Islam or any non-Abrahamic religion are wrong, evil and trying to take over the world. Parents can teach their children white supremacy and involve them in white supremacist events (for example, Lynx and Lamb Gaede who made up the band Prussian Blue).

So just voicing distasteful views is not enough to get custody taken away; the government agency with jurisdiction has to show that the expression of those views is harming the children. For instance, if a white supremacist goes on intense rants with violent hand motions, etc, that cause their children to cry in fear, then that's legitimate grounds for requiring the parent to modify their behaviour.

As for Charlie and Braden not wanting to go see Josh that day...

The problem is that it's pretty common for kids in shared custody arrangements to say they don't want to visit the other parent (or guardian or whatever)... BOTH ways! For instance, they start out at Dad's place saying they don't want to go visit Mom and then after they've been at Mom's place for awhile, they say they don't want to go back to Dad's place.

Normally, it just means that kids prefer to keep having fun where they are, rather than stop the activity in one place and start a different activity in a different place. No big deal.

So it takes more than just some "I don't wanna go today" on the part of the children to raise a red flag. The children have to show abnormal levels of stress or protest and it just doesn't sound like that was the case with Charlie and Braden.

According to this article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio.../09/gIQA88LF2Q_story.html?tid=pm_national_pop



So I think the reluctance to leave the Coxes's house was probably viewed as the normal sort of transitory reluctance expressed by many, many children.

Obviously that reluctance didn't last for long or the CW would not have had the impression that the boys were looking forward to their visits with JP.

BBM

Really? That's the answer to the negligence in this case we've witnessed here?

And that's the answer to Charlie's teacher's evidence of his suffering?

Parental rights trump reason, logic & the obvious expression of stress documented by the child's teacher?

Josh Powell told his children he had a "surpise" for them.

IMO, Josh Powell NEVER should have had the opportunity to have told his children any such thing.

There was a window. An opportunity for the truth to make it to court.

What I want to know is ... did the court ever hear that evidence?

:cow:

 

[concentric]

I apologize for asking something that has probably been answered on one thread or another several times before.

But do they have independent confirmation of the sledding trip and its times other than JP's own story? I ask because taking a 2- and 4-year-old sledding after dark is just an unlikely to me as taking them camping at 12:30 a.m.

------------

Nova, your mention of a "sledding trip" just brought front and center to me the case of Stephen Grant who murdered his wife Tara Lynn Grant. (Another very sickening case.) There were two young children in this family as well.

He dismembered her body and put the body parts on a sled which he dragged into the woods to scatter and bury in the snow. Only, he was worried that the torso would be found, so he went back to retrieve it and stuffed it into a bag in a storage container in his garage. LE found it on a subsequent search, I think prompted by a woman out walking who found a baggie in the woods.

I'm sorry, but I'm having overload with this computer, and am trying to get a link up here. But you all can look up a complete article and read the content.

Anyway, I think the above crime has some parallels with the case we are discussing.

So, I too am wondering if he mentioned a sledding trip.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Do cadaver dogs hit on a body the instant it dies? Or does some time have to pass between death and the change in scent?

It takes 2-4 hours for a human body to develop a death scent.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Well, we know he killed his sister's defenseless hamster and his father chalked it up to "teenage humor!" And he threatened his mother with a knife over doing dishes. It wouldn't surprise me to find out Susan wasn't the first person he killed.

The only thing I see that may contradict this is that I haven't read anything yet that indicates his aggressive *acts* were ever directed outside his family circle (first his family of origin and then at Susan).

Yes, he voiced hateful ideas about Mormons and Jews but that's not the same as direct threats.

I would think that if any of Josh Powell's previous GFs had gone missing, it would be common knowledge by now. And, so far as I know, everyone in his family of origin is accounted for as well.

Actually I just thought of another reason to think JP was not an experienced killer. What he did to the boys could be fairly described as overkill. To me, that suggest inexperience rather than experience.

 

[BritsKate]

Overkill is seen in many, many serial, mass and domestic murders. I don't believe it should be considered as a determining factor for a previous history of homicides or lack thereof. JMO

 

[Stripehaven]

I'm just seeing these details now after being away over the weekend. As must as I'm not exactly surprised, I am so shocked and sick. It seems so clear now that the boys could have been protected. I understand that even though everyone "knew" JP killed Susan, there wasn't proof or even tangible evidence, so that tied the court's hands in that respect. But this other horrific GARBAGE? How does this happen? And easily as chilling, how many other kids are in similar situations RIGHT NOW? Family reunification? PLEASE! Situations like this are not FAMILIES, they are cesspools.

 

[DLT88]

I found the bear story very interesting ... where she was in the trunk, they dug a hole, threw rocks ... one has to wonder if that's what happened with their mother.

It also made me think that JP killed a lot more animals than his sister's hamster(s). I am thinking that #($*#@Q) took people's pets and killed them also. That is always the way serial killers start out. He got away with so much that a part of me wants to drag him up from 'the grave' and MAKE HIM be held accountable for all these crimes.

 

[DLT88]

Overkill is seen in many, many serial, mass and domestic murders. I don't believe it should be considered as a determining factor for a previous history of homicides or lack thereof. JMO

True, I was thinking about OJ Simpson and how that was his first time killing.

JP seemed to be a mess, too, at that friend's house that night he got home and had the chapped hands. So, besides animals, Susan may have been his first human murder.

 

[dovebar]

The only thing I see that may contradict this is that I haven't read anything yet that indicates his aggressive *acts* were ever directed outside his family circle (first his family of origin and then at Susan).

Yes, he voiced hateful ideas about Mormons and Jews but that's not the same as direct threats.

I would think that if any of Josh Powell's previous GFs had gone missing, it would be common knowledge by now. And, so far as I know, everyone in his family of origin is accounted for as well.

Actually I just thought of another reason to think JP was not an experienced killer. What he did to the boys could be fairly described as overkill. To me, that suggest inexperience rather than experience.

May have been a first that we know of. Why was there a family story about how to bury a bear?

Also, what happened to SP's mother's second husband, who we are told died fairly soon after she remarried? Does anyone know?

OJ rehearsed his killing, IIRC, by going over scenes for a movie he was to star in where he played a Navy Seal who slit someone's throat. Again, IIRC, he was given a gift of knives that were not found (which some believe were flown out of LA in his golf bag and dumped). Reading the book by the attorney who got the civil decision against him was very revealing. Not only did he have a history of violence against Nicole (rehearsal), there was this "priming."

 

[Dal Gal]

Also, what happened to SP's mother's second husband, who we are told died fairly soon after she remarried? Does anyone know?

Poor Lynn R. Knight was a blip on the screen. KG and JPG didn't even know about him because Kirk told websleuthers once that SP's mother had only been married twice, but we found three marriage licenses!

Anyhow, no clue what happened to him -- he died 3 months after marriage at age 48, when SP would have been 13. Although Lynn's parents also died young from health-related causes, at 40 and 42 (I did find their death certs, but not Lynn's). Lynn's grave does say "beloved husband and father" though, and I've found no evidence that he had any children of his own.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

I think the only way we can hope to see and hopefully stop these monsters that are living among us is by releasing all the information about this case. Only an informed public can hope to spot the signs the next time someone like JP comes around.

I too agree with your BBM statement. I am not sure, though, how that will help us see and stop these monsters----I believe their ability to "hide" the profoundly sick side is what makes them "monsters". IMOO, no amount of information about this case is going to help the public prevent a person intent on the destruction of another human being.

If hindsight is 20/20, and DNA testing could determine homicidal monsters......Then the likes of Steven Powell should have NEVER been allowed to breed. Sadly that in itself would make us no better than the "monsters". EVIL exists.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

BBM

It is a rare form of suicide but it is the one that is used by people protesting what they perceive as unfair conditions.

For example, Mohamed Bouazizi's self-immolation in 2010 to protest police harassment was what triggered the Jasmine Revolution in Tunisia. Which went on to trigger the Arab Spring.

In the past few years, many Buddhist monks and nuns in Tibet have self-immolated in protest of conditions under Chinese rule. The Chinese authorities are trying to keep this a secret and it is extremely difficult for journalists to get into the area. It is clear that these self-immolations are causing unease to the Chinese government.

In Afghanistan, many women have self-immolated over the past 20 years due to stress and repressive conditions. It is difficult, however, to differentiate which women chose to self-immolate from those whose husbands or other family members chose to burn them as a form of punishment or revenge.

I have no idea if any of this is what Josh Powell had in mind but as soon as I read about what had happened, that is what flashed into my mind.

NO! Josh is not the altruistic type, rather the direct opposite in his selfishness. In fact I still cannot help but think he killed his sons but he escaped. Did they positively identify his body?? LOL! He seems much to cowardly for such a violent exit.

 

[GrainneDhu]

May have been a first that we know of. Why was there a family story about how to bury a bear?

Also, what happened to SP's mother's second husband, who we are told died fairly soon after she remarried? Does anyone know?

OJ rehearsed his killing, IIRC, by going over scenes for a movie he was to star in where he played a Navy Seal who slit someone's throat. Again, IIRC, he was given a gift of knives that were not found (which some believe were flown out of LA in his golf bag and dumped). Reading the book by the attorney who got the civil decision against him was very revealing. Not only did he have a history of violence against Nicole (rehearsal), there was this "priming."

BBM

The bear story could be significant. Then again, if the "Mommy is looking for crystals" story is accurate, that kind of rules out the bear story, I think. To me, the comments about Mommy being in a mine and Mommy looking for crystals seem more likely.

The reason I don't think the bear story is pertinent is that it tickles something in my memory, some book or movie I've seen. Something about a mountain man character having fun scaring some kids he caught eating his raspberries.

I've been looking on Google and Amazon but cannot find anything like what I'm thinking, so it may well be a confabulated memory (where I've put two or more things together and don't realise it).

But still, could it be that Charlie and/or Braden were exposed to some sort of story like that?

As for Josh Powell's grandmother's second husband, are you suggesting JP killed him? Wouldn't he have been very, very young at the time?

 

[GrainneDhu]

NO! Josh is not the altruistic type, rather the direct opposite in his selfishness. In fact I still cannot help but think he killed his sons but he escaped. Did they positively identify his body?? LOL! He seems much to cowardly for such a violent exit.

I agree in that I don't think Josh Powell was altruistic. But he sure loved to wear the martyr's mantle; at least, that was my impression of the interviews I've seen of him.

I don't have a link for you but I recall reading that his body was identified by his dental records.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I didn't even doubt if it was j who died in the fire. The CPS rep. said the explosion was quick.

 

[Pensfan]

I agree in that I don't think Josh Powell was altruistic. But he sure loved to wear the martyr's mantle; at least, that was my impression of the interviews I've seen of him.

I don't have a link for you but I recall reading that his body was identified by his dental records.

JP chose death by a massive fire because with this method no one could alter his decision to end his sons’ lives. Like all domestic batterers, he considered his wife and children to be nothing more than his property for which he was entitled to make all the decisions.

 

[SmoothOperator]

PLZ EXCUSE THE RIDICULOUS ERRORS THIS TOUCHPAD SUCKS!



A Question I have that there they may not be an answer for is my wanting to know what exactlywould have motivated Josh to use the depraved method of chopping the boys necks witha hatchet as a means of incapacitating the boys??.. imo it seems as tho itd be the absolute last way a parent would choose if in such a position[which it goes without saying that the situation itself is unfathomable] but i believe most understand what im trying to say here..

It is brutal, depraved, and would strike immense fear and terror in those few possible moments of comprehension[especially for Braden who witnessed Charrlie being hatcheted].. This for me does in no way convey that which the Powell's are claiming for the deaths to be..as in somehow done out of immense love for his sons...

I hope I am being clear enough in what is im attempting to say/ask.. What i mean is that the chopping with a hatchet was most likely done to keep the boys from escaping, period.. imo there isno bs like he did to alleviate the suffering ofbeing burned to death...bull****!.. it was done so those boyscouldnt attempt to run for their lives.. my question is why not blunt force trauma????

I believe i am not alone in that the act of his chpping their necks with a hatchet/ax is what takes the entire murder to a whole new level of horrific[and when you add in the "I've got a surprise for you, charlie"..well that just is without words].. so, again my question of why would one not choose a much less depraved and horrific and yes, even less terrifying for the boys in those few moments of comprehension[and yes i absolutelybelieve that Bradens seeing Charlie struck on the back of his head, tho still traumatic, but by no means even comparableto thehorror of seeing his brother chopped in the neck with a hatchet/ax which would cause immediate and immense amount of blood].. that isjust the utmost of horrific, striking immense terror, that imo would not be anywherenear that level in seeing him whopped to the back of his head, blunt force trauma , and very likely causing unconsciousness thereby leaving them to not feel the horrific pain of being burned alive.. whereas the method chosen by josh very likely did not cause IMMEDIATE UNCONSCIOUSNESS, thereby leaving those precious boys to not only experience the horrific terror of thechoppingof their necks withahatchet/ax[especially Braden]..but then to still have to experience the excruciating pain of being burned alive!!

MY GOD IT IS TRULY ONLY THE ACTIONS OF WHICH A TRUE MONSTER WOULD BE CAPABLE OF INFLICTING!!

SO WHY WOULD HE HAVE CHOSEN SUCH DEPRAVITY OVER SOMETHING THAT NOT ONLY WOULD BE MORE EFFECTIVE IN TERMS OF INCAPACITATING AS WELL AS ALEVIATING THE TERROR AND PAIN OBURNING ALIVE?

 

[GrainneDhu]

JP chose death by a massive fire because with this method no one could alter his decision to end his sons’ lives. Like all domestic batterers, he considered his wife and children to be nothing more than his property for which he was entitled to make all the decisions.

I agree with you.

I'm trying to figure out *where* he got the idea. In this country, most of the filicides are via gunshot rather than by fire, so why fire?

And then when I thought about the motivation behind the more common types of self-immolation, I began to think that it appealed to JP's love of playing the wronged martyr.

I think part of his intent was to make a statement of "I am sooooooo unjustly picked on, this is what I had to resort to." The ultimate in self pity.

Too bad that he couldn't predict before he did it that the only person who would believe him would be AP.

 

[StrayKat]

PLZ EXCUSE THE RIDICULOUS ERRORS THIS TOUCHPAD SUCKS!



A Question I have that there they may not be an answer for is my wanting to know what exactlywould have motivated Josh to use the depraved method of chopping the boys necks witha hatchet as a means of incapacitating the boys??.. imo it seems as tho itd be the absolute last way a parent would choose if in such a position[which it goes without saying that the situation itself is unfathomable] but i believe most understand what im trying to say here..

It is brutal, depraved, and would strike immense fear and terror in those few possible moments of comprehension[especially for Braden who witnessed Charrlie being hatcheted].. This for me does in no way convey that which the Powell's are claiming for the deaths to be..as in somehow done out of immense love for his sons...

I hope I am being clear enough in what is im attempting to say/ask.. What i mean is that the chopping with a hatchet was most likely done to keep the boys from escaping, period.. imo there isno bs like he did to alleviate the suffering ofbeing burned to death...bull****!.. it was done so those boyscouldnt attempt to run for their lives.. my question is why not blunt force trauma????

I believe i am not alone in that the act of his chpping their necks with a hatchet/ax is what takes the entire murder to a whole new level of horrific[and when you add in the "I've got a surprise for you, charlie"..well that just is without words].. so, again my question of why would one not choose a much less depraved and horrific and yes, even less terrifying for the boys in those few moments of comprehension[and yes i absolutelybelieve that Bradens seeing Charlie struck on the back of his head, tho still traumatic, but by no means even comparableto thehorror of seeing his brother chopped in the neck with a hatchet/ax which would cause immediate and immense amount of blood].. that isjust the utmost of horrific, striking immense terror, that imo would not be anywherenear that level in seeing him whopped to the back of his head, blunt force trauma , and very likely causing unconsciousness thereby leaving them to not feel the horrific pain of being burned alive.. whereas the method chosen by josh very likely did not cause IMMEDIATE UNCONSCIOUSNESS, thereby leaving those precious boys to not only experience the horrific terror of thechoppingof their necks withahatchet/ax[especially Braden]..but then to still have to experience the excruciating pain of being burned alive!!

MY GOD IT IS TRULY ONLY THE ACTIONS OF WHICH A TRUE MONSTER WOULD BE CAPABLE OF INFLICTING!!

SO WHY WOULD HE HAVE CHOSEN SUCH DEPRAVITY OVER SOMETHING THAT NOT ONLY WOULD BE MORE EFFECTIVE IN TERMS OF INCAPACITATING AS WELL AS ALEVIATING THE TERROR AND PAIN OBURNING ALIVE?

Has it been determined which one he hit first? Maybe, him hitting B was the surprise for C.

Their last thoughts of daddy, what a shame.