New Details of Josh's Brainwashing Techniques

[R.U.Kidding!]

This is my idea of what might have been going on with the pictures on the computer found in the search by WVPD in Utah.

Not long after Susan went missing either the WVPD or Josh Powells lawyer went to court and got any evidence of the case locked up and a gag order put on Powell and the WVPD.

These pictures were not illegal and just them and Susan missing was probably not enough to get the kids taken away from Josh in a Utah court and since Josh moved so fast they really did not have much of a chance.

Now when they did the search of Steve Powells home they found enough evidence to take the kids out and do evaluations.

I think Washinton police got a tip from child services that Josh was going to get the kids back soon and Washington Pd contacted the Utah WVPD and they agreed to send the pics to WA for them to use so Josh would not get the kids back right away.

WVPD in Utah had to go to court and get the court to let them release the pictures to Washington and there were strict rules on who could see them because of this gag order in place in Utah.



I think WVPD wanted to hold on to these pictures and not let Josh and his lawyer know exactly what they were because they were going to use them in a murder with no body trial at some point. They were going to say it was possible Susan had found them on the computer and confronted Josh about them.

Thank you Dr. Fessel.

Your theory on CHS/WVPD reasons for withholding these pictures and info makes a great deal of sense. It helps me process what might otherwise be seen as blatant incompetency.

It is time now the Utah court unseal this case and release all the evidence but I think the WVPD is going to fight tooth and nail not to release it because I have a feeling these pictures are just the tip of the iceberg.

.....and in this instance I can't help but wonder what possible good can come of releasing this information. We have just been given a preview of a sick mind and it's devastating affect on all who came in contact with Josh Powell, and his family. I for one will be only too happy to walk away believing your theory, without digging any deeper.

What is beyond comprehension to me is that this man, Josh Powell,lived among us and actually seemed normal ,even somewhat meek. How do we see these "MONSTERS" hiding in plain view. For me----this is what haunts me.

 

[cluciano63]

I think releasing all info does matter...there are children all over the country in situations similar to what the Powell boys were in, i.e. with one parent accused of a crime and still being forced (or allowed, as you may see it) to be in the presence of that parent and it is important to know just how much evidence LE and other agencies had in this case, yet chose to wait and keep it hidden for a possible trial down the road. JMO

 

[TexasCharm]

I haven't talked to my husband about this case at all because I knew he would get upset. So today he was reading over my shoulder and said "Who is Josh Powell?" (he had seen the name in the news but hadn't read any stories). So like Dr. Fessel I just blurted out the details about the murders and the explosion and the social worker. And my hubby just stared at me and then said, "That's the saddest thing I think I've ever heard."

He was stunned by the bare details, so it's no wonder the rest of us are nearly in shock from knowing every little thing connected to the case. It's a terrible case - just terrible, and gets worse every day.

I try not to talk to mine either about these cases. My husband is an adult survivor of childhood abuse. He now works with other men who are working through their issues as it relates to childhood abuse ... He hears plenty of stuff from these men.....

However when it is a current case and kids involved, it really really upsets him. He tells me "I don't know how you can spend so much time on that stuff.."

 

[CHERIE.T]

Thumbs up cluciano63.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

I think releasing all info does matter...there are children all over the country in situations similar to what the Powell boys were in, i.e. with one parent accused of a crime and still being forced (or allowed, as you may see it) to be in the presence of that parent and it is important to know just how much evidence LE and other agencies had in this case, yet chose to wait and keep it hidden for a possible trial down the road. JMO

If authorities had the information on Josh Powell's computer sites and did not release it to the "proper" authorities, thus allowing his boy's to be with him UN- supervised, I agree 100%. The way I understand it from Dr. Fessels post, is this information was reported, and that is why Josh was only allowed to see his children under the supervision of CHS--never alone.

The part I question is any and all information regarding his "perversions" being released for general knowledge. At this point what would it accomplish other than the unnecessary lurid details of a sick mind. Any information they needed to facilitate the protection of his children during parental visitation had been utilized for their protection. Their protection was all that mattered, and if the proper agencies were privy to this info, then IMO they did their job .

 

[kai]

No worries. You can sugarcoat an anchovy, but it's still a stinky piece of fish. There was no gentle way to share this horrible news.

Make sure you have soft items to throw in anger and a several boxes of tissues and be prepared to repeat often as you read the threads.

 

[diphi]

If authorities had the information on Josh Powell's computer sites and did not release it to the "proper" authorities, thus allowing his boy's to be with him UN- supervised, I agree 100%. The way I understand it from Dr. Fessels post, is this information was reported, and that is why Josh was only allowed to see his children under the supervision of CHS--never alone.

The part I question is any and all information regarding his "perversions" being released for general knowledge. At this point what would it accomplish other than the unnecessary lurid details of a sick mind. Any information they needed to facilitate the protection of his children during parental visitation had been utilized for their protection. Their protection was all that mattered, and if the proper agencies were privy to this info, then IMO they did their job .

I think I see your point. But, dang it, we just want to know. It seems much was either silenced or not provided when it should have been.

This case is not dons.

IMO

 

[Pensfan]

How old is Alina Powell?

She is old enough to be investigated and held accountable for crimes that occurred in her residence which was shared with the boys, JP, and SP. :furious:

 

[Dr.Fessel]

=R.U.Kidding!;7614472]Thank you Dr. Fessel.

Your theory on CHS/WVPD reasons for withholding these pictures and info makes a great deal of sense. It helps me process what might otherwise be seen as blatant incompetency.



It is time now the Utah court unseal this case and release all the evidence but I think the WVPD is going to fight tooth and nail not to release it because I have a feeling these pictures are just the tip of the iceberg.

.....and in this instance I can't help but wonder what possible good can come of releasing this information. We have just been given a preview of a sick mind and it's devastating affect on all who came in contact with Josh Powell, and his family. I for one will be only too happy to walk away believing your theory, without digging any deeper.

What is beyond comprehension to me is that this man, Josh Powell,lived among us and actually seemed normal ,even somewhat meek. How do we see these "MONSTERS" hiding in plain view. For me----this is what haunts me.[/QUOTE]

..............................................................................................................................................................................



Thanks for giving me a chance to clear up just what I meant by the tip of the iceberg.

I really wasn't thinking about more pictures or anything like that.

I think there is going to be other evidence WVPD has sealed up that is going to make people say why the heck didn't they arrest this guy already. I think they have evidence she was killed in that house but it wasn't quite enough. I also think they made some big mistakes they really don't want to talk about.

I want them to release it all, let some of the best minds in the country look at it and see if they can figure out if there are any clues to the whereabouts of Susan.

I am afraid though they are going to fight the release and they have already fired the first shot by naming Steven Powell a suspect now after Josh's death in hopes that will keep the evidence sealed. I believe it will be a battle with the newspapers lawyers, vs. the WVPD to get it unsealed.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

....


Thanks for giving me a chance to clear up just what I meant by the tip of the iceberg.

I really wasn't thinking about more pictures or anything like that.

I think there is going to be other evidence WVPD has sealed up that is going to make people say why the heck didn't they arrest this guy already. I think they have evidence she was killed in that house but it wasn't quite enough. I also think they made some big mistakes they really don't want to talk about.

I want them to release it all, let some of the best minds in the country look at it and see if they can figure out if there are any clues to the whereabouts of Susan.

OHHHHH!!!!! Nevermind! Now I Agree 100% --LOL!! Sorry






I am afraid though they are going to fight the release and they have already fired the first shot by naming Steven Powell a suspect now after Josh's death in hopes that will keep the evidence sealed. I believe it will be a battle with the newspapers lawyers, vs. the WVPD to get it unsealed.[/B][/QUOTE]

 

[GrainneDhu]

Something made him confident he would have unsupervised ability to take the kids camping?

I think it was in his active fantasy life.

I didn't see anything in the psychologist's report to make me think JP was going to get unsupervised visitation or custody any time soon. Remember that one of the conditions the psychologist set for *considering* reunification was that JP would no longer be a subject of investigation in Susan's disappearance.

Like that was ever going to happen anywhere except within Josh Powell's mind.

 

[hollyblue]

BBM

Can't help but say I agree. Doesn't matter - Catholic, Baptist, Mormon, whatever...religion was important to these people and figured prominently in their actions. It's part of what they were/are.

IMO

Religion was the button used to unsettle Susan .....the psychopathy was the people using it ....and their reasoning behind it. Manifestation of true hate...and it's fruits.. doesn't occur overnight. Was it deeply set within SP...or could the long drawn out divorce have planted the seed for him?

 

[dovebar]

Religion was the button used to unsettle Susan .....the psychopathy was the people using it ....and their reasoning behind it. Manifestation of true hate...and it's fruits.. doesn't occur overnight. Was it deeply set within SP...or could the long drawn out divorce have planted the seed for him?

Yes. However, it's offensive to say that because it happened in Utah, the "why" is that Utah is Mormon - which is what was said upthread.

That's like having a Jewish family, in Israel, murdered by Muslim terrorists.
And having someone say, "why did this happen? You know, JEWS."
I think most - Jewish or not - would find that offensive.
And it's that kind of casual, knee-jerk disparagement of Mormonism that killed Susan and the boys and it has no place here.

Leaving that aside, I am disturbed by comments from the DA that they didn't arrest him because they were looking for what seemed like an airtight or slamdunk case - and they thought they needed a body to do that. Even IF they had tried the case without Susan's body, there is a good chance of conviction; it has happened in many other cases. In a death penalty state, I am betting that he would have taken a plea and coughed up her body. And even if he had walked, there was ample material on his computer to keep him away from the boys because once that was known, the judge ordered a lie detector test and a psychosexual eval as a condition of getting the boys back - and he was never going to pass those. Instead, the DA and/or police let him have 2 years of unfettered access to the kids. It's just baffling.

 

[cluciano63]

I think LE had as much evidence as they could have regarding Susan's death, without actually finding her, and as that may never have happened, they may have waited too long to make a move to charge JP. His story never made sense. LE has got to find more ways to charge people for crimes without bodies and some cases the suspect is more obvious than others.

In any event, we know they had enough reasons that could have kept the children safe, IMO; as soon as it was discovered that JP had them living in that house of filth with his father and naked brother, that should have been enough, in my opinion, to keep them safe and away until and unless JP was fully examined and cleared, which he never would have been, also IMO. Even if they were not prepared to charge him with murder, it should have been made clear to those involved in the custody issues that JP was considered dangerous, unstable, and unsuitable.

I hate to think that LE may have had a good case against JP for Susan and delayed in hopes of finding her...but that may well be the case. I really want to see some LEA's across the country have the guts to take on some of these alleged killers...I think most juries could reasonably conclude the likely truth, with Susan, as with Stacey Peterson, and others. JMOJMOJMOJMOJMO

 

[unique_astrology]

Yes, Josh was a twisted individual and from post #6 [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7612493&postcount=6"]http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7612493&postcount=6[/ame] in this thread it seems he was passing on what he had been taught. He was probably obsessed with sex as a result of being abused himself and was shaping his son as he had been shaped.

He was not taught love, respect for himself or others, thus had no understanding of how to live it or pass it on to others. This is an example of how the haters, perverts, and incorrigible criminals in the world are shaped. I am not defending, just trying to explain, to make people think, realize. Josh, like all children started out innocent and was turned into a monster by Steve Powell. Some, like Josh, live out the behavior they have learned, others, thankfully, do not.

This entire episode can be traced back to Steve Powell.

 

[dovebar]

I think LE had as much evidence as they could have regarding Susan's death, without actually finding her, and as that may never have happened, they may have waited too long to make a move to charge JP. His story never made sense. LE has got to find more ways to charge people for crimes without bodies and some cases the suspect is more obvious than others.

In any event, we know they had enough reasons that could have kept the children safe, IMO; as soon as it was discovered that JP had them living in that house of filth with his father and naked brother, that should have been enough, in my opinion, to keep them safe and away until and unless JP was fully examined and cleared, which he never would have been, also IMO. Even if they were not prepared to charge him with murder, it should have been made clear to those involved in the custody issues that JP was considered dangerous, unstable, and unsuitable.

I hate to think that LE may have had a good case against JP for Susan and delayed in hopes of finding her...but that may well be the case. I really want to see some LEA's across the country have the guts to take on some of these alleged killers...I think most juries could reasonably conclude the likely truth, with Susan, as with Stacey Peterson, and others. JMOJMOJMOJMOJMO

Not living in the state, I don't know anything about the DA. But this article, depressingly enough, says that one of his early acts was to eliminate the domestic violence prosecution unit, despite that fact that it was formed to try to make headway on the fact that SLC County has a 70% dismissal rate on domestic violence arrests.

http://www.sltrib.com/politics/51562799-90/gill-lake-salt-office.html.csp?page=2

 

[unique_astrology]

My opinion only. It sounds convoluted but might have been possible.

Steve Powell was obsessed with Susan Cox as he related to a woman acquaintance numerous times between 2001 and 2009. He had "trophy" underwear of hers he had stolen. He had pictures he had taken of her without her knowledge. He was addicted to *advertiser censored*. I believe he sexually abused all of his children creating a psychological hold on them which may explain why all except one of them (at the ages of 25, 28, 33, and 34) were living with him in late 2010 according to the Washington State Voter Database.

Susan's disappearance was planned. His daughter said that he and Josh were on the phone more than usual before Susan disappeared. Once it was decided to murder Susan I think the sociopath, Steve Powell, decided he would have his way with her and planned how to do that. When Josh fixed dinner that day, Susan was probably drugged as part of Steve Powell's plan.

To drive from Puyallup to Salt Lake City would take a long day to get there (about 14 hours plus stops for gas, bathroom, and to eat), time to sleep, time to commit his crime, and a day to drive back. Three days. If my theory is correct, he probably flew there and back after commiting his crimes which could have taken as little as one day.

He could have taken the earliest possible flight on Dec 6th, rented a car, rented a room at a motel, ate, slept and driven close to Josh and Susan's home by 5 pm, walked to the house in the dark (after 5 when Josh left), entered through a door left unlocked by Josh, raped and murdered Susan (he may have taken a trophy after, if so it might unknowingly be in the possession of LE), returned to his car and driven to the airport to fly back to Washington. Josh was probably told how and where to dispose of Susan's body when Steve laid out his plan to him. After hiding Susan's body, Josh could have taken the kids and stayed in the motel room Steve had rented for the rest of the night. Josh would have had a very long day behind him and probably needed sleep. Josh would not be on record as having rented a room and the children would not have seen Steve.

If this theory of events is close to correct it might be possible to ascertain Steve's whereabouts on Dec 6, 2009. Check passenger lists from Seattle to Salt Lake City for the 6th and 7th, checking for round trip ticket purchases. How many males made that particular round trip then? The list might be very short. Find all of them and get a visual by LE. That would be the best chance of discovering the name of a passenger who cannot be unacounted for. Check car rentals from the SLC airport for Dec 6. Show Steve's picture to the motel clerk on duty where the woman believes she saw Josh and the children the morning of the 7th. Lunch was possibly eaten in SLC, but where?

With so much time having passed chances of anybody recognizing Steve or remembering the date if they do are probably slim but every possibility should be checked. If there is recognition, the date(s) to check records are few.

If I am right, Susan's killer is still alive but he is in custody and there is time to check into the what I have posed. I am not a sleuther so my theory may have many holes that can be pointed out but perhaps somebody with experience in sleuthing can patch this into a possible theory.

 

[dovebar]

My opinion only. It sounds convoluted but might have been possible.

Steve Powell was obsessed with Susan Cox as he related to a woman acquaintance numerous times between 2001 and 2009. He had "trophy" underwear of hers he had stolen. He had pictures he had taken of her without her knowledge. He was addicted to *advertiser censored*. I believe he sexually abused all of his children creating a psychological hold on them which may explain why all except one of them (at the ages of 25, 28, 33, and 34) were living with him in late 2010 according to the Washington State Voter Database.

I too have thought for some time that JP may have handed her over to SP, who raped and then disposed of her. I think his obsession with her was giving way to the fact that she created too much interference in his hold over Josh. He was working hard on Josh to get rid of her, come back to Washington, leave the church, etc.

How does your theory reconcile with the fact that the boys said Susan was in the trunk? That would be the only hangup to me.

 

[StealthTheory]

I know this thought is way out there but I sincerely hope the authorities did thorough property holding searches all JP's entire family. Part of me feels like SP could have tried to 'keep' Susan as a prize captive at some point, her 'given' to him by JP. It's not completely unheard of. Several cases of missing people held captive for years have been known, and recent ones. He was just so incredibly controlling. I have a hard time believing SP would 'allow' JP to kill Susan if he had a chance to keep her as a possession. Sorry for the sick thought, but it kept occurring to me.

My opinion only. It sounds convoluted but might have been possible.

Steve Powell was obsessed with Susan Cox as he related to a woman acquaintance numerous times between 2001 and 2009. He had "trophy" underwear of hers he had stolen. He had pictures he had taken of her without her knowledge. He was addicted to *advertiser censored*. I believe he sexually abused all of his children creating a psychological hold on them which may explain why all except one of them (at the ages of 25, 28, 33, and 34) were living with him in late 2010 according to the Washington State Voter Database.

Susan's disappearance was planned. His daughter said that he and Josh were on the phone more than usual before Susan disappeared. Once it was decided to murder Susan I think the sociopath, Steve Powell, decided he would have his way with her and planned how to do that. When Josh fixed dinner that day, Susan was probably drugged as part of Steve Powell's plan.

To drive from Puyallup to Salt Lake City would take a long day to get there (about 14 hours plus stops for gas, bathroom, and to eat), time to sleep, time to commit his crime, and a day to drive back. Three days. If my theory is correct, he probably flew there and back after commiting his crimes which could have taken as little as one day.

He could have taken the earliest possible flight on Dec 6th, rented a car, rented a room at a motel, ate, slept and driven close to Josh and Susan's home by 5 pm, walked to the house in the dark (after 5 when Josh left), entered through a door left unlocked by Josh, raped and murdered Susan (he may have taken a trophy after, if so it might unknowingly be in the possession of LE), returned to his car and driven to the airport to fly back to Washington. Josh was probably told how and where to dispose of Susan's body when Steve planned this. After hiding Susan's body, Josh could have taken the kids and stayed in the motel room Steve had rented for the rest of the night. Josh would have had a very long day behind him and probably needed sleep. Josh would not be on record as having rented a room and the children would not have seen Steve.

If this theory of events is close to correct it might be possible to ascertain Steve's whereabouts on Dec 6, 2009. Check passenger lists from Seattle to Salt Lake City for the 6th and 7th, checking for round trip ticket purchases. How many males made that particular round trip then? The list might be very short. Find all of them and get a visual by LE. That would be the best chance of discovering the name of a passenger who cannot be unacounted for. Check car rentals from the SLC airport for Dec 6. Show Steve's picture to the motel clerk on duty where the woman believes she saw Josh and the children the morning of the 7th. Lunch was possibly eaten in SLC, but where?

With so much time having passed chances of anybody recognizing Steve or remembering the date if they do are probably slim but every possibility should be checked. If there is recognition, the date(s) to check records are few.

If I am right, Susan's killer is still alive but he is in custody and there is time to check into the what I have posed. I am not a sleuther so my theory may have many holes that can be pointed out but perhaps somebody with experience in sleuthing can patch this into a possible theory.

 

[unique_astrology]

How does your theory reconcile with the fact that the boys said Susan was in the trunk? That would be the only hangup to me.

Josh was probably told how and where to dispose of Susan's body when Steve laid out his plan to him.

If Steve left Susan in the bedroom, the boys would probably not have seen her when they returned at about 8:30. Josh would have put them to bed and proceeded to clean up any signs of a struggle (if there was one), put Susan into the trunk, load any gear needed to support his claim of a camping trip into the trunk, and possibly (using an untraceable cell phone) communicated with Steve (also using an untraceable phone) to let him know that he was ready to hide Susan. The boys might not have known Susan was in the trunk until Josh had to take her out to hide her.

Susan may have not been drugged enough to keep her down, gotten up and been on the couch when Steve entered and he may have grabbed her there, or near there if she tried to run, and assaulted her there, accounting for the fans drying a spot on the carpet (body fluids).

Cause of death may have been strangulation or knife wound (thinking of Josh's butcher knife incident and use of a hatchet later and one of the boys owie (S?) remark regarding a woman's chest later) which the boys may have seen when Josh removed Susan from the trunk.