New Mackenzie Phillips Book Reveals Sexual Relationship With Her Father

[stilettos]

It is very difficult for me to post about this topic. I can say that as a daughter who has had this experience (as a child thru teen, totally non-consentual on my part) with her father...it is not abnormal to love your father and hate what he did/does to you. I chose to see the legal ramifications through to conclusion. After years passed, i also chose to try and resolve my relationship with my father. He died the way i knew him, sick and twisted. BUT he knew and I knew that i had tried everything possible to have a safe and healthy boundaried relationship with him. I have no regrets and I tell my story in public often....to help other little girls not be afraid to tell the truth. I cannot judge Mackenzie and whether she is truthful or not....i will have to err on the side of caution and give her the benefit of the doubt.

 

[sleutherontheside]

This comment does not refer to WS...I am appalled at the backlash that she is getting over this spilling of her "secret".* It doesn't really matter to me why she is coming forward.* It doesn't really matter to anyone except her does it?* If she makes money on her book is that a crime?* If my life were interesting and colored enough to write a book, I would.* She mentioned in her interview that "forgiveness" is not for the abuser, it is FOR the VICTIM.* With all the backlash she is already getting, can you imagine what people would say if she were doing the talk show rounds bashing him?* People would lash out at her saying that "If he was so bad then WHY did you let him do it?" This is a no win for anyone but her.* If she is viewed as humiliating herself in the process, it is her choice. Though no victim should ever feel humiliated.* IT IS NOT THEIR FAULT.* She mentioned helping others feel less shame and have the courage to come forward.* Should we tell all those other victims to keep it behind closeds doors and deal with it in therapy?* Most incest victims don't have a situation like hers, and if she can be brave enough to come out about it, then someone else should feel the courage to do the same.* I don't think the book is a story about her relationship with her father.* I imagine it is about a lifetime of excess, inappropriateness, lack of consequences, and failure to ever learn boundaries.* In this time of celebrity and narcissism at large, I think it is timely to have someone point out that EVERYTHING has a consequence.* I don't plan to buy the book, but if so many people are horrified at the thought of what she is discussing, my question is this:* "Why are you watching?"JMO***

 

[MaryLiz]

I know the last post didn't pertain to WSers..but I feel I just have to say I was not bashing her by saying therapy was the way to deal with this. I can't imagine the courage it took for her to come out with this to the whole world. BUT, that being said, I personally would handle it completely differently. I have never been a huge fan of celebrities airing their secrets in public. Noncelebrities, yes, they get my sympathy more than famous people. It's just the way I feel. I guess for me, if this is all true, the fact that MP said the relationship became "consensual" made me view this with a little more of an Ewww factor. No, it's not her fault because he was the abuser, but she was apparently so whacked out on drugs for so many years, that it just continued. I've made lots of bad choices too and many mistakes, and continue to make some of the same mistakes over and over. But I'm not a celebrity, and even if I was, I just cannot bring myself to share things like that with everyone on the planet.

 

[southcitymom]

It is very difficult for me to post about this topic. I can say that as a daughter who has had this experience (as a child thru teen, totally non-consentual on my part) with her father...it is not abnormal to love your father and hate what he did/does to you. I chose to see the legal ramifications through to conclusion. After years passed, i also chose to try and resolve my relationship with my father. He died the way i knew him, sick and twisted. BUT he knew and I knew that i had tried everything possible to have a safe and healthy boundaried relationship with him. I have no regrets and I tell my story in public often....to help other little girls not be afraid to tell the truth. I cannot judge Mackenzie and whether she is truthful or not....i will have to err on the side of caution and give her the benefit of the doubt.

Thank you for talking so honestly, stilettos. The courage it takes for a person to share something like this with others humbles me.

Obviously, none of us can know her truth, of course, but like you, I am willing to accept it at face value.

 

[stilettos]

I know the last post didn't pertain to WSers..but I feel I just have to say I was not bashing her by saying therapy was the way to deal with this. I can't imagine the courage it took for her to come out with this to the whole world. BUT, that being said, I personally would handle it completely differently. I have never been a huge fan of celebrities airing their secrets in public. Noncelebrities, yes, they get my sympathy more than famous people. It's just the way I feel. I guess for me, if this is all true, the fact that MP said the relationship became "consensual" made me view this with a little more of an Ewww factor. No, it's not her fault because he was the abuser, but she was apparently so whacked out on drugs for so many years, that it just continued. I've made lots of bad choices too and many mistakes, and continue to make some of the same mistakes over and over. But I'm not a celebrity, and even if I was, I just cannot bring myself to share things like that with everyone on the planet.

Cambria...:blowkiss: thank you for sharing. Many times after lengthy therapy...a counselor will encourage the survivor to share their story....to validate their experience and return the power over the situation back to the survivor. This crime happens in secret....exposing it to the light is very theraputic.

 

[JoeDean]

I do not talk about my childhood experience much, I think due to the fact that people are uncomfortable with the topic and disbelieve because it is so horrendous. I was sexually abused by my father from about age 3 until 11. The first time I spoke out about it I was called a liar and was told that I would be institutionalized for drug abuse. WTH Another time I spoke about the abuse I was called "as used as a 2nd hand cookie" Needless to say these labels quieted my voice until I was older and became stronger. When my father finally admitted to others and to myself that: Yes he had sexually abused me but "I needed to just get over it". Even though he admitted what he had done but kind of disqualified my pain I was finally able to work through the pain I had felt for so many years. It is a long time healing process, I don't think one truly "gets over it" but one can learn how to cope and enjoy life. That may be what MP is doing, by speaking out about abuse it validates somewhat the pain and hurt she has gone through. She has kept quiet for many years perhaps out of fear that nobody would believe her. Speaking out about abuse does help ease the hurts....... I do not have a relationship with my abuser and have not had for many years.

 

[LinasK]

I think most of us know if certain people in our lives would or would not have sex with their own child. We know just by knowing their character -- we don't have to be married to them.

IMO

Not necessarily, I was molested by my mother's brother in my own backyard, while my parents were home! They never knew, and years later when I did finally tell my mother, she denied it, "Not my brother!"
In fact, for years they would try to throw me together with him at family parties and get-togethers but I didn't let that happen.
Recently I told my father, and his reaction was,"I always wondered why you were so mean to Uncle Louie".

P.S. not long ago, I learned that Uncle-Niece relations also fall under the category of incest...:sick::sick::sick:

 

[stilettos]

I do not talk about my childhood experience much, I think due to the fact that people are uncomfortable with the topic and disbelieve because it is so horrendous. I was sexually abused by my father from about age 3 until 11. The first time I spoke out about it I was called a liar and was told that I would be institutionalized for drug abuse. WTH Another time I spoke about the abuse I was called "as used as a 2nd hand cookie" Needless to say these labels quieted my voice until I was older and became stronger. When my father finally admitted to others and to myself that: Yes he had sexually abused me but "I needed to just get over it". Even though he admitted what he had done but kind of disqualified my pain I was finally able to work through the pain I had felt for so many years. It is a long time healing process, I don't think one truly "gets over it" but one can learn how to cope and enjoy life. That may be what MP is doing, by speaking out about abuse it validates somewhat the pain and hurt she has gone through. She has kept quiet for many years perhaps out of fear that nobody would believe her. Speaking out about abuse does help ease the hurts....... I do not have a relationship with my abuser and have not had for many years.

Uhmm...Joe....:blowkiss: that is not enough to say what I would like to say to you....but it's all I have to give here at WS. I feel you.

 

[billiejo]

I think most of us know if certain people in our lives would or would not have sex with their own child. We know just by knowing their character -- we don't have to be married to them.

I believe Michelle.

MP is cashing in. It's an insult to real victims out there.

Has she co-hosted "The View" yet?

IMO

Trust me ,you don't know by their character,that is exactly how they get away with it.My entire family still refers to me as "that crazy Jolene" because I told of my uncle abusing me when I was 9.It lasted from age 6 till 10 when I started to mature and he was no longer interested.He was and is a deacon in a Christian church and very well respected. Yet he did sexually abuse me for nearly 5 years.

 

[PoppyMcTwist]

Trust me ,you don't know by their character,that is exactly how they get away with it.My entire family still refers to me as "that crazy Jolene" because I told of my uncle abusing me when I was 9.It lasted from age 6 till 10 when I started to mature and he was no longer interested.He was and is a deacon in a Christian church and very well respected. Yet he did sexually abuse me for nearly 5 years.

I agree that we can't know for certain about everyone. But I also think that there are some people in our lives who we can vouch for and say without a doubt would never commit incest. I don't think everyone has the capacity to have sex with their own child.

IMO

 

[IWannaKnow]

I think most of us know if certain people in our lives would or would not have sex with their own child. We know just by knowing their character -- we don't have to be married to them.

I believe Michelle.

MP is cashing in. It's an insult to real victims out there.

Has she co-hosted "The View" yet?

IMO

Not necessarily, I was molested by my mother's brother in my own backyard, while my parents were home! They never knew, and years later when I did finally tell my mother, she denied it, "Not my brother!"
In fact, for years they would try to throw me together with him at family parties and get-togethers but I didn't let that happen.
Recently I told my father, and his reaction was," I always wondered why you were so mean to Uncle Louie".

I agree that we can't know for certain about everyone. But I also think that there are some people in our lives who we can vouch for and say without a doubt would never commit incest. I don't think everyone has the capacity to have sex with their own child.

IMO

PoppyMcTwist - I have to agree with LinasK. There are different types of molesters, and we are not talking about the ones you can spot from across the room because they look crazy. We are talking about the ones like my uncle, and LinasK's uncle who hide in the open, among good people who refuse to believe that they would do what they are being accused of...because they go to church, serve in the church, LOVE CHILDREN, "such a good man", "such a good husband", blah, blah, blah. Look at Mackenzie's step mother. What the heck would she know? She wasn't even there, but feels the need to claim it is not true. Does she feel that it reflects upon her? I don't know, but I can tell you that when you do tell, they don't/won't believe you...because "it simply can't be true, he was too good a man." - what my mother said to me when I told her about her sainted brother (who was a deacon in the church!) molesting me when I was 2 years old...It is best to hide in plain sight. :banghead:

 

[Gracenote]

I agree. She obviously needed to unburden herself of this horrible secret, but that's what therapy is for. If something like that happened to me, I'd probably be in therapy for life. But I can't think of one person outside maybe a couple in my family who would need to know about it. I don't think it would be "cleansing" for me to share it with everyone. On the contrary, I would feel really creepy and uncomfortable revealing something like this even to my best friend, let alone the world! I'm not saying you have to keep something like this to yourself, but telling a therapist or two would be "freeing" enough. I do agree also with those who said that if she had to tell the world about this, she should have done so while Papa John was still alive.

(not disagreeing with you, just thinking out loud. I respect your opinion totally)
For someone who is raised without boundaries, who has mental health issues, this may constitute appropriate disclosure for her. When I was doing counseling, many people would walk in the front door to the lobby and tell everyone in the waiting room every personal detail of their lives. They told people in the grocery store, in the dentist's office, whereever they happened to be.

I don't know what to think about Ms Phillips and I won't buy her book but I do feel she is very, very blessed to still be alive for so many reasons. Life was against her from the very start.

 

[PoppyMcTwist]

PoppyMcTwist - I have to agree with LinasK. There are different types of molesters, and we are not talking about the ones you can spot from across the room because they look crazy. We are talking about the ones like my uncle, and LinasK's uncle who hide in the open, among good people who refuse to believe that they would do what they are being accused of...because they go to church, serve in the church, LOVE CHILDREN, "such a good man", "such a good husband", blah, blah, blah. Look at Mackenzie's step mother. What the heck would she know? She wasn't even there, but feels the need to claim it is not true. Does she feel that it reflects upon her? I don't know, but I can tell you that when you do tell, they don't/won't believe you...because "it simply can't be true, he was too good a man." - what my mother said to me when I told her about her sainted brother (who was a deacon in the church!) molesting me when I was 2 years old...It is best to hide in plain sight. :banghead:

I get it, I really do. I know everything there is to know about molesters and monsters. I have my own history with them. But I also know that not everyone is a potential molester. There are men in my life who I know, without a doubt, would die before committing such an act. It's sad think of a life in which no one rises above the moral capacity of a molester.
IMO

 

[southcitymom]

I do not talk about my childhood experience much, I think due to the fact that people are uncomfortable with the topic and disbelieve because it is so horrendous. I was sexually abused by my father from about age 3 until 11. The first time I spoke out about it I was called a liar and was told that I would be institutionalized for drug abuse. WTH Another time I spoke about the abuse I was called "as used as a 2nd hand cookie" Needless to say these labels quieted my voice until I was older and became stronger. When my father finally admitted to others and to myself that: Yes he had sexually abused me but "I needed to just get over it". Even though he admitted what he had done but kind of disqualified my pain I was finally able to work through the pain I had felt for so many years. It is a long time healing process, I don't think one truly "gets over it" but one can learn how to cope and enjoy life. That may be what MP is doing, by speaking out about abuse it validates somewhat the pain and hurt she has gone through. She has kept quiet for many years perhaps out of fear that nobody would believe her. Speaking out about abuse does help ease the hurts....... I do not have a relationship with my abuser and have not had for many years.

(((JoeDean))))

 

[stilettos]

I get it, I really do. I know everything there is to know about molesters and monsters. I have my own history with them. But I also know that not everyone is a potential molester. There are men in my life who I know, without a doubt, would die before committing such an act. It's sad think of a life in which no one rises above the moral capacity of a molester.
IMO

My life is blessed because I found out that there are men who would rather die than to hurt a child, or a woman. Not every man on earth is an abuser, molester and incest perpetrator...but there are many, hiding in plain sight and probably much closer than you would like to believe.

 

[Gracenote]

Ok now I have a question. I have seen Mackenzie on Oprah, Entertainment Tonight, a morning show, People mag and of course the internet. How many interviews is she going to do about this? I kind of thought it was just Oprah, maybe a magazine but this is getting to be a little of an overload. Maybe her agent needs to tell her to slow down.

 

[Miss_Scarlett]

(not disagreeing with you, just thinking out loud. I respect your opinion totally)
For someone who is raised without boundaries, who has mental health issues, this may constitute appropriate disclosure for her. When I was doing counseling, many people would walk in the front door to the lobby and tell everyone in the waiting room every personal detail of their lives. They told people in the grocery store, in the dentist's office, whereever they happened to be.

I don't know what to think about Ms Phillips and I won't buy her book but I do feel she is very, very blessed to still be alive for so many reasons. Life was against her from the very start.

Good point about boundaries. And that just opens them up to more kinds of abuse or abuse of their children.

 

[Jolynna]

I do not know if she is telling the truth or not about the 10 year 'relationship' with her dad. I just am uneasy with her making these accusations after her dad is dead and cannot speak for himself. Why does she feel it necessary 'to tell the world' in order to heal? This revelation is sure to devastate the family and loved ones of both of them.

However, this is sure to sell a great many copies of her book. How many of us (or the public in general) would have noticed that MP had even written a book, if not for the shock value of this incident?

I believe Mackenzie.

If Mackenzie had talked while her father was alive her father might never have spoken to her again. She needed his approval so badly she kept "their" secret. Children desperately think they need the love of even the most abusive of parents. The need doesn't stop because the children grow up. If the child wants to keep the parent in his or her life, the child has to keep the secret.

It doesn't mean that the "secret" hasn't been eating away at Mackenzie. Abused children blame themselves. Mackenzie wants to be accepted as she is. She's had to "pretend" most of her life that the abuse didn't happen.

jmo

 

[Columbo]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/TV/09/23/mackenzie.phillips.oprah/index.html

Phillips' story isn't without its detractors: Her former stepmother, Genevieve Waite, released a statement to the "Oprah Winfrey Show" denouncing Phillips' account.

"I am stunned by Mackenzie's terrible allegations about her father," Waite wrote. "I would often complain about her overly familiar attitudes towards him, and he said it was just her way. John was a good man. ... He was incapable, no matter how drunk or drugged he was, to have sexual relations with his own child."


"McKenzie's drug addiction for 35 years has been the result of many unpleasant experiences," Michelle Phillips, John Phillips' second wife, told CNN in a statement. "Whether her relationship with her father is delusional or not, it is an unfortunate circumstance and very hurtful for our entire family."



ETA: I don't know why the pregnancy would stop the relationship after 10 years. Wasn't the abuse just as horrific? And for those who watched Oprah, did you notice how Mac was talking to the audience as one would talk to a jury. She hardly acknowledged Oprah. Just my opinion.

I can only imagine what this is doing to the entire family, and believe it should have been kept behind a therapist's door - not in front of the world.

I, for one, will not be buying the book.

MOO

Mel

bolded by me.

Does it seem obvious to anyone else that Genevieve Waite couldn't see past the end of her own nose? Blaming the child for being "overly familiar" with her father, when it was the father's abuse that caused the "over-familiarity"?

 

[shopper]

Ok now I have a question. I have seen Mackenzie on Oprah, Entertainment Tonight, a morning show, People mag and of course the internet. How many interviews is she going to do about this? I kind of thought it was just Oprah, maybe a magazine but this is getting to be a little of an overload. Maybe her agent needs to tell her to slow down.

And she'll be back on Oprah tomorrow, for all the reactions. Oprah mentioned Chynna but I don't know if Chynna will be on or if she'll do a skype or if her comments will be read or what.