New Search Being Conducted 10/27 at small lake at Chaumiere Park

[frankie069]

Do we know at all if there are any other searches being conducted today.. ?

 

[In da Middle]

Umm...well. Hmm. How to answer?
Yes it does seem like a quick search- but not necessarily a quick water search (using dogs.) Water scent dogs are going to either alert or not pretty quick- especially on a still, smallish body of water if property trained and utilized. But we are also talking about the possibility of a very small person here (less particles to scent on.) And that pup looks kinda thirsty to me. So maybe they didn't get any alerts, and decided to call it a day, change over dogs, and go to a ground search?
Anyone know how deep the pond is? And if it has runoff contaminants or anything like that?

Then again- I did guess wrong at the dogs being used, so take that with a grain of salt!

Not very deep. contaminates should be minimal, maybe runoff from highway, but it hasn't rained very much at all for any kind of runoff in a LONG time now.
The wind is fairly still today also.

 

[dizzychick]

we need Dr. Vass' sniffer machine !

 

[Turnadot]

Well, they haven't done what I think they should have done - inform the public what to look for in finding a live baby.

Does anyone know of a woman desperate to have a baby who has now moved away, or is breaking social engagements and hard to contact? Does anyone know of a family who just recently adopted a baby that looks just like Lisa - who may have been told that she's much older, so they aren't suspicious?

The public needs to know how to think about looking. If they're looking for that baby to be with a lower middle class family at Walmart, that's probably not where she is. If she's alive she's most likely with a psychotic single woman, or with a well-to-do family who just adopted their bundle of joy in a private adoption and have no idea it's Lisa.

And I haven't heard any of that kind of guidance from LE.

DB could help with that by contacting missing children groups. They are a great resource and can help spread the word on how to look for a live Lisa.

Maybe when DB and JI aren't so exhausted, they'll make an effort, since LE doesn't seem to be doing enough to help Lisa, maybe her mother can advocate for her helpless infant when she isn't too tired to help her.

IMO

 

[In da Middle]

Now I am kind of wondering if the house tour was cancelled because they got wind of this new search that would be going on at the same time of the tour. All of the media would be at the house instead.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

we need Dr. Vass' sniffer machine !

Arpad. :heartbeat:

 

[Abby Normal]

That's simple. Why would LE look for a live baby when they have clues that there is no live baby?

Hopefully they wouldn't stop looking without irrefutable proof!

I do think that the searches for a passed infant are being made more aware to the public, but I would assume leads are followed up on as well.

Unless they have NO DOUBT, they should be/have been making press conferences about what to watch for, etc. But you know? The parents could have taken responsibility for that task as well, instead of giving inaccurate details of the night to media they could have been telling people what to watch for, certain things she does or says a lot, how she responds to strangers at stores, and so forth.

IMO both parties *seemingly* assume that she has passed, and that is just heartbreaking.

 

[Bodhi]

FWIW..my son in law called a couple of days ago. He knows I've been following the Baby Lisa disappearance. Anyway, one of SIL's coworkers had the FBI at their door, they live on the KS side of the city. FBI wanted to see their baby and see documentation that baby belonged to them. The coworkers child is male, and all documentation was provided. We all assumed the FBI was following up on one of the many leads they have received.

Just because the media is not following around every investigator to every location, does not mean they are not still searching and following all leads!!!

Thanks for letting us know about the thoroughness of the investigation, Chieftess! The reports in the media say the family/attorneys are concerned that LE is too focused on the family.

 

[Abby Normal]

IMO LE could not keep us informed of followed up leads of a live baby Lisa, even if they wanted to. Having the media follow them to front doors would be pretty unethical. JMO. LE have given me no reason to doubt their dedication and ability. So I will work with the assumption that they are doing a good job.

 

[gwenabob]

If they do find her in that lake does that prove the mother or dad were the cuplrits? im sure they will say the bad guy did it. I so hope she is alive I know my better judgement says no but im keeping hope.

With that river so close and so fast running and deep i wouldnt think a pond would be the ideal place to look, i still say the river makes more sense.

I am wondering about the "typical" psychology regarding the disposing of a murdered baby. I have heard on these threads that men typically bury and women typically put in water.

What I am wondering about is how often a parent who kills their child will hide the body with the intention that it never be found, vs hiding a body with the hope that it is eventually found.

If this were an accidental death or even a "lost my temper" kind of death, don't you think the parent would want Lisa's body found eventually? So they can play the part of the grieving parents and put her to rest? It seems they really did love her.

What about a stranger abduction/killing. I believe those who children kill for sex abuse seem to want the body found so they can enjoy the continuing press attention.

So, I guess the end question of the ramble is: does anyone have an idea, given the circumstances, of whether the river or another dumping place would be the preference of the potential killer? Wouldn't they actually want the body found at some point?

 

[Peepers]

an hour search today ...huh..

 

[Janeumayer]

Needle in a haystack.

Where IS she?!

If it was the parents, I doubt they put her in the water. This baby looked very well cared for. They would have dug a grave somewhere special to them. JMOO

 

[scandi]

I am wondering about the "typical" psychology regarding the disposing of a murdered baby. I have heard on these threads that men typically bury and women typically put in water.

What I am wondering about is how often a parent who kills their child will hide the body with the intention that it never be found, vs hiding a body with the hope that it is eventually found.

If this were an accidental death or even a "lost my temper" kind of death, don't you think the parent would want Lisa's body found eventually? So they can play the part of the grieving parents and put her to rest? It seems they really did love her.

What about a stranger abduction/killing. I believe those who children kill for sex abuse seem to want the body found so they can enjoy the continuing press attention.

So, I guess the end question of the ramble is: does anyone have an idea, given the circumstances, of whether the river or another dumping place would be the preference of the potential killer? Wouldn't they actually want the body found at some point?

Great post Gwen, I did hear Pat Brown say seldom is a baby taken for sexual purposes. Thank God.

I think LE is getting close. On HLN Jane just said everything to do with the parents has been put on hold. Did we learn where the man with baby was spotted at 3:45am? Is where water in that area? Sorry I haven't read all the previous posts. See you guys in a couple of hours. I so hope she is found today. xox

 

[BritsKate]

I am wondering about the "typical" psychology regarding the disposing of a murdered baby. I have heard on these threads that men typically bury and women typically put in water.

What I am wondering about is how often a parent who kills their child will hide the body with the intention that it never be found, vs hiding a body with the hope that it is eventually found.

If this were an accidental death or even a "lost my temper" kind of death, don't you think the parent would want Lisa's body found eventually? So they can play the part of the grieving parents and put her to rest? It seems they really did love her.

What about a stranger abduction/killing. I believe those who children kill for sex abuse seem to want the body found so they can enjoy the continuing press attention.

So, I guess the end question of the ramble is: does anyone have an idea, given the circumstances, of whether the river or another dumping place would be the preference of the potential killer? Wouldn't they actually want the body found at some point?

To my knowledge, unfortunately, not much research has been done is spatial patterns of disposal strictly regarding filicide and infanticide. There has been research done into sexual and serial killers as well as a generalised study based on genders.

Can't locate the gender specific study but from memory - women dispose much closer to home than men (I think under 5 miles) whereas men travel great distances. Women also prefer to reenact womb-like environments such as water, swaddling, wrapping. HTH

Links to studies:
http://www.mun.ca/psychology/brl/publications/Snook11.pdf
http://www.davidcanter.com/uploads/spatial patterns of serial murder.pdf
http://www.ia-ip.org/uploads/librar...cal Test of Holmes Serial Murder Typology.pdf

 

[nursebeeme]

please take discussion to the appropriate threads... the search is over per media reports:seeya:

bumping up....:seeya:

 

[GoodGurl]

I have a friend who doesn't drive, but drives to the store and a friends house all the time...she just doesn't drive on freeways or long distances. Did DB have a car available for emergencies? Seems like I remember one there in the driveway.

Likely disposal is within walking distance, and she did so sometime on Monday. Put her in the stroller and talk a walk to the river? Makes me sick to think it. :-(

JMO MOO

 

[HatesSociopaths]

I am wondering about the "typical" psychology regarding the disposing of a murdered baby. I have heard on these threads that men typically bury and women typically put in water.

What I am wondering about is how often a parent who kills their child will hide the body with the intention that it never be found, vs hiding a body with the hope that it is eventually found.

If this were an accidental death or even a "lost my temper" kind of death, don't you think the parent would want Lisa's body found eventually? So they can play the part of the grieving parents and put her to rest? It seems they really did love her.

What about a stranger abduction/killing. I believe those who children kill for sex abuse seem to want the body found so they can enjoy the continuing press attention.

So, I guess the end question of the ramble is: does anyone have an idea, given the circumstances, of whether the river or another dumping place would be the preference of the potential killer? Wouldn't they actually want the body found at some point?

I have some general information on murders that may be of use. It is from FBI profiler (retired) Robert Ressler, considered the best in the business. The first thing to know is that he classifies murderers into one of 2 categories: Organized vs. Disorganized Murderers. In this case, it was organized. Here are some characteristics of an organized murderer:

good intelligence
socially competent
inconsistent childhood discipline
controlled mood during crime
use of alcohol with crime
precipitating situational stress
living with partner
mobility, with car in good condition
follows crime in news media
may change jobs or leave town
offense planned
personalizes victim
controlled conversation
crime scene reflects overall control
demands submissive victim
restraints used
aggressive acts prior to death
body hidden
weapon/evidence absent
transports victim or body

"murderers seeking to maintain control over their act of murder may hide the bodies of their victims."

Hope this helps. :seeya:

 

[my_tee_mouse]

Is that Shiloh?

Shiloh: Chocolate Lab, 10. Shiloh does body recovery and weapons detection. Shiloh has located drowning victim in up to 28 ft of water as well as bodies on dry land.

http://www.searchdogssouth.org/profiles.php

I'd say not unless Shiloh's been using Grecian Formula.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

Any proof that they have not been looking for a live baby?? :waitasec:

Any proof that the parents are looking for any baby at all?

 

[21merc7]

Any proof that the parents are looking for any baby at all?

my tee mouse;

I don't think LE will allow the parents to go out on searches. The first thing a parent would do is pick up the body and contaminate evidence.