New Time Line - Smell in the car?

[AZlawyer]

So then it is safe to say that the clothing that LE confiscated with the stains could actually smell like decomp? If in fact that was what caused the stain. That would be great evidence to come out.....wonder if the family would then still want to blame somebody else?:waitasec:

I bet the stains are just laundry detergent that didn't rinse out all the way in the machine. Detergents will glow under forensic lights.

 

[waiting4change]

I bet the stains are just laundry detergent that didn't rinse out all the way in the machine. Detergents will glow under forensic lights.

I guess it was wishful thinking on my part.

 

[DaughterAlice]

So then it is safe to say that the clothing that LE confiscated with the stains could actually smell like decomp? If in fact that was what caused the stain. That would be great evidence to come out.....wonder if the family would then still want to blame somebody else?:waitasec:

All I know is that when one of my kids has a pee-pee accident, it takes at least 2x through the wash to get the urine smell out (+ I usually have to soak it too). I use perfume free detergent, so there's nothing to mask the smell if it didn't all wash out. It seems like the smell of decomp would be about 1000x worse than just urine!!

They did actually collect those clothes, even though CA washed them, right?

 

[seagull65]

Didn't TL say he didn't notice any smell around the car or on KC on June 23? I'm going to have to go check again.
And GR of Johnson's Wrecker towed the Pontiac 9:16am 30th June, did not notice any odor (though he says he had a cold).

 

[JBean]

Just looking at old threads, that was amazing that Beckaroozie posted this way back in November.

You probably won't be surprised when I tell you several sleuths isolated this location,mapped and posted it the first week in AUGUST.

 

[seagull65]

I think those folks should be on the psychic thread, too (maybe they are) Seagull

I know psychics Gail St John and Travis and the other nice searcher (also a psychic or from TES? I can't remember, the lady with long blond hair) and their dogs were drawn to the area in August.
If I were a local, I would have wanted to search that area too, just seeing it there so nearby in the neighborhood. But out of towners who singled out that area so early on do amaze me.

 

[magic-cat]

snipped:
On June 26, Casey Anthony wrote, “I need a freaking vacation.”
The next day, a text message told Huizenga about how her car smelled like a dead animal — and how it was possibly a squirrel that was run over.

http://cayleeanthony.wordpress.com/...nt-553-cell-text-messages-two-about-daughter/

So the first time she mentions the smell to Amy that we know of is the 27th?

Here is my theory on this one. Ok. In a tropical climate, such as Florida IS in the heat of the summer, decomposition would speed up. Now, as a body decomposes, on about the 2nd to the 6th day, depending on the temperature, the linings in the mouth and the nose liquify and ooze out in the form of decomposition fluids. If THIS were the source of the stain, then that would fit perfectly with the 2.6 days time frame (and that time frame was an approximation, and could have been a bit less or more). So, we have a baby in the trunk, possibly covered over by her blanket, but lying right there on the carpet in the trunk. We have the Florida heat speeding along decomposition and the oozing from her mouth and nose draining into the spot where she is laying. Also, at this point, there is rigor mortis. It sets in, it leaves and then sets in again. If she was as stiff as a board there would have been no way for Casey to "stuff" her inside of something, a bag, a box or a tote-whatever-it would have been next to impossible with her stiff like that. But on the 3rd day the rigor lets up, or on day 2.6 approx. and Casey gets her chance to place Caylee inside of something. I believe she took her out of the trunk using the neighbors' shovel and laid her on either a tarp or bags or plastic in the back yard. Then she wrapped her up tight as she could get her wrapped, and placed her inside of something else, now sealed up in plastic. Then she puts her back in the trunk for several more days or possibly a week or more, and then disposes of her in whatever manner she chose. The decomp that had leaked out would continue to cause an odor, and the body, although inside of a box and wrapped in plastic would also continue to emit an odor which would grow stronger by the day. Once she was removed the odor lingered and lingers still...

Quoting myself...I cannot believe how close the exactly what she did in this "theory"...that is skeeerrryyy!

I don't think Caylee was in a container in that trunk otherwise why would that car still smell after 4 months?

Maybe because it was not a sealed container as we had earlier surmised but was rather an open top laundry bag, from whence the scent of death could have continued to disperse odor into the trunk...

 

[Woe.be.gone]

If the corpse was removed from the trunk of the Pontiac on June 19, would it be possible to retain the car for seven days beyond that date without encountering second party questioning as to the smell therein?

TL was near the car on June 23 - claims no smell
GA was near the car on June 24 - claims no smell
TL was near the car on June 27 - claims no smell
Tow yard guys never reported a smell which is strange too.

What would the progression of the smell be? Is was contained in a closed car. Why would it not release upon the opening of the trunk?

Wow! Post No. 70 dtd. 11/20/08 Amazing!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

What if Caylee died at the Anthony's home on the 16th (JG heard KC tell Caylee to get off the table and said something about touching something that was KC's). After KC realized the grave state of Caylee's condition (caused by her own neglect and drug use (my belief)), she rushed her to the trunk of her car.

On the 18th, KC returned to Hopespring Dr. with Caylee still in the trunk now leaking fluids. KC removed Caylee from the trunk and brought her in the backyard, taped her mouth as we know from the way the skull was found in order to stop further leakage, and bagged Caylee's little body :cry: as she was found (except bags had come apart, etc.) EXCEPT this would only add up to two days of decomp.

KC placed the newly bagged body back in the trunk on the 18th, cleaned and returned the shovel and drove away.

KC unloaded the bag at the end of her block that same day (18th) or the next day on the 19th.

In the following days she returned to Hopespring with her car in order to undertake cleanup of the trunk, to steal gas, to return stolen gas cans, as well as to get more clothes to take over to TL's.

She may have used to shovel on the 18th to touch up the area she had "dressed" Caylee and as a tool to lift or roll the body with.

All of the above could have been done without anyone elses knowledge but I cannot explain why neither TL nor GA would not notice an odor from the car on June 23 and 24. Both encounters involved the trunk being opened with them standing in close proximity to the trunk.

June 16 to June 23 = 7 days. Would the leaked fluids produce the strong odor in seven/eight days?

The fluid was leaked by a 2.5 day decomp but the repackaged body may have remained in the trunk longer.

WAIT a sec, 2.5 decomp would mean Caylee had been in the trunk since late on the 15th unless her body was not rebagged until the 19th. She had to be in the trunk without the bags initially to leave the stains.

If she was not in the trunk until the 18th, I don't think the stains would be there. If Caylee was in the backyard the 16th, 17th and part of the 18th, KC would have "dressed" her prior to placing her in the trunk. Unless she did a half arsed job the 18th, noticed the leakage, came back on the 19th and used the tape and added the laundry bag.

Or, she died elsewhere and was placed in the trunk initially and KC drove to Hopespring to do the bagging. This would mean that Caylee's dead body had not been at the ANT's home prior to the 18th. The dogs hit cuz KC used the backyard to do her dirty work - taping, bagging, etc. on the 18th.

Can anyone think of anything that would help place the location of Caylee's death or to explain why TL and GA say there was no smell being emitted from the Pontiac on either June 23 or 24?

 

[The World According]

What if Caylee died at the Anthony's home on the 16th (JG heard KC tell Caylee to get off the table and said something about touching something that was KC's). After KC realized the grave state of Caylee's condition (caused by her own neglect and drug use (my belief)), she rushed her to the trunk of her car.

On the 18th, KC returned to Hopespring Dr. with Caylee still in the trunk now leaking fluids. KC removed Caylee from the trunk and brought her in the backyard, taped her mouth as we know from the way the skull was found in order to stop further leakage, and bagged Caylee's little body :cry: as she was found (except bags had come apart, etc.) EXCEPT this would only add up to two days of decomp.

KC placed the newly bagged body back in the trunk on the 18th, cleaned and returned the shovel and drove away.

KC unloaded the bag at the end of her block that same day (18th) or the next day on the 19th.

In the following days she returned to Hopespring with her car in order to undertake cleanup of the trunk, to steal gas, to return stolen gas cans, as well as to get more clothes to take over to TL's.

She may have used to shovel on the 18th to touch up the area she had "dressed" Caylee and as a tool to lift or roll the body with.

All of the above could have been done without anyone elses knowledge but I cannot explain why neither TL nor GA would not notice an odor from the car on June 23 and 24. Both encounters involved the trunk being opened with them standing in close proximity to the trunk.

June 16 to June 23 = 7 days. Would the leaked fluids produce the strong odor in seven/eight days?

The fluid was leaked by a 2.5 day decomp but the repackaged body may have remained in the trunk longer.

WAIT a sec, 2.5 decomp would mean Caylee had been in the trunk since late on the 15th unless her body was not rebagged until the 19th. She had to be in the trunk without the bags initially to leave the stains.

If she was not in the trunk until the 18th, I don't think the stains would be there. If Caylee was in the backyard the 16th, 17th and part of the 18th, KC would have "dressed" her prior to placing her in the trunk. Unless she did a half arsed job the 18th, noticed the leakage, came back on the 19th and used the tape and added the laundry bag.

Or, she died elsewhere and was placed in the trunk initially and KC drove to Hopespring to do the bagging. This would mean that Caylee's dead body had not been at the ANT's home prior to the 18th. The dogs hit cuz KC used the backyard to do her dirty work - taping, bagging, etc. on the 18th.

Can anyone think of anything that would help place the location of Caylee's death or to explain why TL and GA say there was no smell being emitted from the Pontiac on either June 23 or 24?

Tony said KC was already standing outside of her car when he picked her up from Amscot. He never got out of his car. Since the Amscot manager saw the car there when she arrived for work at 7 am, the car had likely been there all night. The interesting thing is Tony said KC had just come from her folks house as she had things from their home freezer, like chicken in glad freezer bags and frozen freezer pops, so someone gave her a ride from her folks house to Amcot to be there at the time of day Tony picked her up. That someone is unknown. I'm sure the police checked all cab company records to see if she used one. So many boyfriends and hook ups, some of them on the force, some married, maybe there is a private reason this person is not coming forward, but SOMEONE drover her there. Did anyone notice when Cindy asked KC during a jailhouse visit, "Why didn't SHE come back for the car? It doesn't make any sense!", KC obviously told her parents that some female other than she was driving and had abandoned the car there? I want Morgan to ask Cindy who she was referring to as the "She", what did KC tell her regarding this other person driving that car and leaving it there.

 

[spqr]

A note on the odor and the masking/hiding of the odor. From personal experience...many years as a police officer...a full year of which was spent at the medical examiners office after 9/11....many of us used to use vicks vapo-rub inside of our face masks. Yes I know it opens nasal passages more but...it is the only thing that actually masks the horrible odor. You dont need much inside the mask and it will last for many hours. All you smell is menthol.

Secondly....do we have any knowledge of casey buying a large amount of salt? I hate to say it but alot of meats are "cured" by packing with salt. Preserves very well...maybe just to hide long enough for disposal.

 

[ibyoungr]

A note on the odor and the masking/hiding of the odor. From personal experience...many years as a police officer...a full year of which was spent at the medical examiners office after 9/11....many of us used to use vicks vapo-rub inside of our face masks. Yes I know it opens nasal passages more but...it is the only thing that actually masks the horrible odor. You dont need much inside the mask and it will last for many hours. All you smell is menthol.

Secondly....do we have any knowledge of casey buying a large amount of salt? I hate to say it but alot of meats are "cured" by packing with salt. Preserves very well...maybe just to hide long enough for disposal.

OT, but I know from experience that feedlot workers due to the smell use Vicks in their noses because of the smell. It also helps prevent the high rate of possible sinus infections.

How soon would that body had to smell really bad in the whole car? By the 18th?
Didn't Casey have a cold about in and around June? It was in a text.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Tony said KC was already standing outside of her car when he picked her up from Amscot. He never got out of his car. Since the Amscot manager saw the car there when she arrived for work at 7 am, the car had likely been there all night. The interesting thing is Tony said KC had just come from her folks house as she had things from their home freezer, like chicken in glad freezer bags and frozen freezer pops, so someone gave her a ride from her folks house to Amcot to be there at the time of day Tony picked her up. That someone is unknown. I'm sure the police checked all cab company records to see if she used one. So many boyfriends and hook ups, some of them on the force, some married, maybe there is a private reason this person is not coming forward, but SOMEONE drover her there. Did anyone notice when Cindy asked KC during a jailhouse visit, "Why didn't SHE come back for the car? It doesn't make any sense!", KC obviously told her parents that some female other than she was driving and had abandoned the car there? I want Morgan to ask Cindy who she was referring to as the "She", what did KC tell her regarding this other person driving that car and leaving it there.

Yes TL said while at Amscot he did not exit his car which is believable.

There was another gas can assist call from KC to TL on June 23. On this day TL assisted KC to get the cans out of the shed. They went back to KC's car where TL said that he got the gas can out of his jeep and brought it to KC who did the pouring of the gas into her car. Thinking back to my glory days, if I were with a guy, I'm sure he would have done the whole thing for me and I gratefully would have let him! TL says KC poured the gas and then put the can in her own trunk, etc. TL would have been standing near the gas hole (huh-?) for a little while but did not assist KC any further. He returned to his jeep.

GA was near the trunk the next day on June 24. Amscot was later in the week.

It is a mystery that three men; TL, GA and tow guy did not mention/report this unique, foul smell. Tow guy said he had a cold but you'd think, over the next week or two, someone would walk near the car and notice the smell.:waitasec:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

A note on the odor and the masking/hiding of the odor. From personal experience...many years as a police officer...a full year of which was spent at the medical examiners office after 9/11....many of us used to use vicks vapo-rub inside of our face masks. Yes I know it opens nasal passages more but...it is the only thing that actually masks the horrible odor. You dont need much inside the mask and it will last for many hours. All you smell is menthol.

Secondly....do we have any knowledge of casey buying a large amount of salt? I hate to say it but alot of meats are "cured" by packing with salt. Preserves very well...maybe just to hide long enough for disposal.

Thank you for your service at a very difficult time.

Don't take this wrong, but I don't think TL, GA or the guys working at the tow yard wore face masks with Vicks. Great tip though for if/when I have to do a smelly job.

I haven't heard anything about salt reported. My guess is KC would not have known that but one never knows.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

OT, but I know from experience that feedlot workers due to the smell use Vicks in their noses because of the smell. It also helps prevent the high rate of possible sinus infections.

How soon would that body had to smell really bad in the whole car? By the 18th?
Didn't Casey have a cold about in and around June? It was in a text.

I remember KC talking about a cold or Caylee having one but I think that was one of her put off lies to AH in order to excuse herself from prior plans she had made and was breaking.

 

[zippitydo]

(MODS I hope this is OK)

OK so on Nancy Grace she had a ME on her show that explained why the car would still smell 4 months later. The medical examiner man that she had on there said that he thinks the body was in the car for two weeks.

Could this mean that there is a different time line then of when she disposed of the body? Maybe we should look over the pings and see if we can get a different location that Casey may have been at since the time line could be changed. I agree with the ME that her body would have been in there for a long time. If Caylee was killed on the 16th then that means two weeks later it would have been June 30th or around that time that Caylees body was gone. She could have disposed of the body in July even.

Does anyone know the date the car was pick up by GA?

 

[nyvictoria]

Yes TL said while at Amscot he did not exit his car which is believable.

There was another gas can assist call from KC to TL on June 23. On this day TL assisted KC to get the cans out of the shed. They went back to KC's car where TL said that he got the gas can out of his jeep and brought it to KC who did the pouring of the gas into her car. Thinking back to my glory days, if I were with a guy, I'm sure he would have done the whole thing for me and I gratefully would have let him! TL says KC poured the gas and then put the can in her own trunk, etc. TL would have been standing near the gas hole (huh-?) for a little while but did not assist KC any further. He returned to his jeep.

GA was near the trunk the next day on June 24. Amscot was later in the week.

It is a mystery that three men; TL, GA and tow guy did not mention/report this unique, foul smell. Tow guy said he had a cold but you'd think, over the next week or two, someone would walk near the car and notice the smell.:waitasec:

Tis a mystery all right!

It's just may be that TL, never having smelled such an odor before, was simply unaware what it was. Couple that with the fact that Casey was pouring gasoline, which emits powerful vapors, it's just possible he didn't smell anything that would set off alarm bells. I find that gasoline smells sickeningly sweet, a property slightly similar to the underlying odor of decomposition. I'm sure LE questioned Tony about whether Casey's car smelled but I can't recall how he answered. Could Casey have told him about running over something? I don't remember enough of Tony's interviews to answer my own questions. I think I'll review them tonight. It'll give me something constructive to do LOL

As for George, I don't believe much of anything he says. If he got close enough to the car on the day Casey gave him his "*advertiser censored**ing gas cans", he smelled it! He claimed he was close enough to be able to glance into the trunk but I don't believe that either. Perhaps Casey left them in the garage for him to find? I don't think George is at all reliable as far as the smell of the car in relation to the return of the gas cans. Let's face it, instead of calling LE from the tow lot he chose to tamper with evidence.

 

[leemarie85]

I've been wracking my brain for weeks now, over this bag of trash found in the trunk. Why would someone put obviously household trash in their trunk and drive around with it, when surely there are plenty of dumpsters in an apartment complex? Why would KC take TL's trash out, only to put it in her trunk???:waitasec: And then, it hit me...when the trunk started to smell, she threw some fab softener sheets in there...then the empty (or almost empty) detergent bottle...wonder if the cap was on or off?? Still couldn't get rid of the smell....my guess is she tried to clean the carpet, but the fluids had leaked down into the spare tire well, and it didn't occur to KC to lift the trunk liner and clean it off. I know LE found fab softener sheets in there, it was in the discovery of what was in the trunk (sorry, no link, but I know I can find it). When the smell started to get really bad, she threw a bag of trash on top of the stain to try to 'mask' the odor, in case anyone else noticed. She could say, 'oh, wow, I forgot to toss that smelly trash in here, how stupid of me...'What do you guys think?

 

[nyvictoria]

Ok, I reread Tony's October 16th interview. In recounting the events of the "Big Gas Can Heist" on June 23rd, he stated he stayed near the passenger side door while Casey filled the car with gas (on the same side). While she was filling the car, the trunk was closed. He said he offered to help with the gas but she said she would do it herself. He put the cap back on the first can while she emptied the second one. After emptying both, she opened the trunk and walked back to pick up the cans. As she was putting them in the trunk, he was already at his car putting down the tailgate. All he remembers is the smell of the gas, "just the gas". He really wasn't near the car all that long. As I said before, I think because he smelled the gas fumes and was not familiar with the stench of decomposition, he simply would not have noticed. Once the cans were packed away in her trunk she closed it, got in her car and followed him back to his place.

ETA...woe.be.gone I know you recounted this in your post above. I just wanted to add a few details, if only for my own clarification

I'd be interested to know where she kept her car when she parked at his complex. I would imagine it was somewhere away from his parking spot and the entrance to his apartment. It really does boggle the mind how she managed to drive around reeking of Caylee's body without anyone noticing. Decomposition sticks to your hair and clothing, not to mention it stays in the nostrils for a long, long time. I'll bet she took plenty of showers!!

 

[I Din Doot]

The bag ripped.

In my limited, unqualified experience,uhhum!!

Every time I tried to get potting soil/ chicken feed/ fertilizer out of the trunk it got caught on something and I had a mess to clean up.

The baby was a 40LB, leaking, heavy, rigormotis, odiferous (who's watching,((damn neighbors))) situation. Maybe needed duct tape to stop leakage.
Drag that out of the trunk in a hurry and it will get on your pants (the ones that were in the car((that Cindy washed)) .

Maybe some of that juice was on the gas cans that left enough odor in the backyard for cadaver dogs to smell.

A slight change in this scenario would make a major change in WHEN there was an odor and HOW STONG the odor was!!

I don't` mean to be crude but the reality is - put a groundhog in your trunk for a couple days. Like my Daddy said "Have fun son but don't git nun onya".

The crime will only be solved when Cindy has the epipheny!