New Website on Ramsey case

[tipper]

Nowhere did I say she did nothing but pageants. My point was there are a million other 'useful' things to do with a 6 yr olds time and efforts than teach her that she isn't good enough the way she looks naturally.

Sorry, it's early. You said:

"How about teaching a child about more important things that outer beauty??
How about enrolling her into a foreign language class instead of teaching her to dance provocatively? "

And I pointed out the foreign language and violin class.

 

[Brefie]

Sorry, it's early. You said:

"How about teaching a child about more important things that outer beauty??
How about enrolling her into a foreign language class instead of teaching her to dance provocatively? "

And I pointed out the foreign language and violin class.

Gotcha. Those classes are very 'useful', imo. However, I feel my point still remains - I said 'instead of', not 'as well as'.

 

[narlacat]

Who said she could speak French? As I have pointed out before when my eldest son was in kindergarten his class had what the school billed as German lessons. In reality it consisted of someone's German grandmother coming in and teaching the kids to count and sing some German songs. I suspect JonBenet had something similar. As far as the violin goes she was probably caught up in the Suzuki wave that passed through the country.

My point was for Brefie who thought she did nothing but the pageants. Even ST thought she had a "normal" childhood which included playing, getting dirty and doing all the things kids do.

Added:
Thank you Wuschel. What you say is borne out by the statements of people who have had a loved one murdered.

It is my understanding that Patsy did.
I think this information comes from her filling out a pagent form or something similar, maybe if Why- Nutt's around she can verify that.
Patsy cannot be relied on to tell the truth, if she lies about the small stuff.....

 

[tipper]

It is my understanding that Patsy did.
I think this information comes from her filling out a pagent form or something similar, maybe if Why- Nutt's around she can verify that.
Patsy cannot be relied on to tell the truth, if she lies about the small stuff.....

My recollection is Patsy said on pageant appliction that she was taking French lessons. I don't recall that she said she spoke French. Perhaps I can find further info.

Added: I did find these two interviews
http://www.cbn.com/700club/scottross/interviews/jonbenet2.asp

[…]

SCOTT: Looking at JonBenet, the little girl in that outfit parading there seems to be an exploitation of a child?

PATSY: It wasn't. It was absolutely not. It was something that she and I enjoyed doing together not unlike hundreds of mothers and daughters across this country that do it every weekend of the world. I was driving this weekend to a friend's house and pulled up at a stoplight and in the car next to me were all these pageant clothes hanging there, and I knew where this mother and child had been this afternoon. This wasn't a novelty.

JOHN: We had a very simple approach to our children, we wanted them to try different things and be very good at one thing whatever it was. So we let our kids do a lot of different things. JonBenet took violin lessons, she was going to take rock climbing lessons, she took piano lessons, she took French, she took acting lessons. JonBenet was a performer. If there was a microphone it was in her hand and she was singing and dancing or doing something that was just her genes.

[…]

http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/10122000ramseynewseum3.htm

PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I think a lot of things…you know; timing, availability of video footage, all contributed to…that perception of John and me as parents…and also, enabled…the world…to…see…so much of JonBenet, vs. one little school picture. And I, I'm almost certain, that is why…you know, the world knows of her so much more than just a child who was killed somewhere and they just have one little picture available.

Uh…you know, I grew up in a…in a small town in West Virginia. Lived in Atlanta for years, and years, and years…it's a…kinda of a "Southern thing"…is the beauty pageant deal. I was involved in the Miss America pageant, it paid a lot of my college tuition with scholarships from the Miss America pageant…I'm gonna watch it this weekend on television. Um…but people have condemned that…for their own sick reasons. I mean, it is not unlike parents I know who get their…their eight and nine year olds up at the crack of dawn, and take them to an ice hockey rink, its 5 a.m., because it's the only time that they can get "rink time."

Um…it's not unlike little boys being…you know, dressed in…um…those wrestling outfits they wear. You know, I mean…it's just…JonBenet was a performer. She…we would have a dinner party, and she would come downstairs with a pom-pom on her head…and a tutu on, and say, "Watch me, watch me…I wanna sing a song for you!" You know…and everybody would have to sit there and…and watch…while she did her little thing.

And, I've gotten letters from mothers and parents that say, you know, "My little girl was the same way. Now, she's a vocal performance major at…XYZ University." It was just something to…grab a-hold of…um, …

JOHN RAMSEY: You know, she did a lot of things…and that was one of them. She also took violin lessons, and French lessons, we had her signed up to do rock climbing…our approach with the kids was we would like them to find one thing that they were good at, that they could be proud of themselves…and, they tried a lot of different things. JonBenet tried…she took dance lessons, and…and, uh…we have pictures of that, too…but the, the uh…pageant pictures are what got out.

And, um…she did…I used to tell her that it doesn't matter whether you're the prettiest or have the prettiest dress on…it's your talent that counts, and uh…cause, each one of these little events had a talent portion, and…she would always tell me, "I worked really hard on my talent, Dad." And, in fact, I wear this medal that she'd given me…in her last little competition. Where she'd won the overall talent award. And, she was just a very talented kid. She loved to get on a stage, and perform.

My biggest fear was that she was going to run off to Hollywood. And, uh…(laughs)

PATSY RAMSEY: Now, see…Burke is not like that. He came home a couple weeks ago, and saying that he thought he might want to try out for the middle school play…and I was like, "Wow! You know, this is…this is a big deal!"

And I said, "What part are you trying out for?" I'm thinking the lead, you know…he said, "Aw, I wanna be on the sound crew." You know. OK. (sounds disappointed) But, you know, kids are different.

Burke can do…you ought to see what he can do with a skateboard. You know…blows my mind. But kids have different…fortes.

 

[Nehemiah]

For what it's worth... Steve T. stated in his book on page 83 that JonBenét was taking violin and French lessons as well as participating in pageants.

 

[Brefie]

SCOTT: Looking at JonBenet, the little girl in that outfit parading there seems to be an exploitation of a child?

PATSY: It wasn't. It was absolutely not. It was something that she and I enjoyed doing together not unlike hundreds of mothers and daughters across this country that do it every weekend of the world. I was driving this weekend to a friend's house and pulled up at a stoplight and in the car next to me were all these pageant clothes hanging there, and I knew where this mother and child had been this afternoon. This wasn't a novelty.
[/size]

I am not the only one who thinks that the costumes were 'explotation'.

Patsy keeps referring to this being a weekend thing? Hardly. The costumes, hair bleaching (totally unforgivable - a 6 year old???), singing lessons, dancing lessons - didn't she have a separate 'stage' or 'runway' instructor or something like that? This pagaent business was way more than a couple sundays a month. Much went into grooming JBR. Way too much.
If JonBenet wanted to be a performer, sign her up for a drama group - one that regularly performs. One that doesn't require her to be shown that her regular 6 yr old self isn't good enough.

Later, Patsy sounds disappointed about Burke being on sound crew instead of the lead in a play? She EXPECTED him to want to play the lead. I think this is very telling of Patsy and how she viewed her children.

 

[simplesimon]

I am not the only one who thinks that the costumes were 'explotation'.

Patsy keeps referring to this being a weekend thing? Hardly. The costumes, hair bleaching (totally unforgivable - a 6 year old???), singing lessons, dancing lessons - didn't she have a separate 'stage' or 'runway' instructor or something like that? This pagaent business was way more than a couple sundays a month. Much went into grooming JBR. Way too much.
If JonBenet wanted to be a performer, sign her up for a drama group - one that regularly performs. One that doesn't require her to be shown that her regular 6 yr old self isn't good enough.

Later, Patsy sounds disappointed about Burke being on sound crew instead of the lead in a play? She EXPECTED him to want to play the lead. I think this is very telling of Patsy and how she viewed her children.

There are many pageants sponsored by companies,townships etc(LIL Miss County)that seem to be normal, As I said earlier I was involved with a freinds daughter who entered.(collected money)she needed dresses and she did travel. She was involved in a few and one a little trophy.I did not attend but saw pictures and actually saw the dresses. They were very girly,lacy dresses,even the socks and shoes had lace on them. The girls were all dressed up and they had there hair styled with ribbons and bows. I believe my freind put a pale lipstick on her daughter,but I could be wrong.Now this is something my daughters would never be interested in at any age. They were tomboys and I had trouble keeping them clean when we "went out" let alone wearing frlly dresses.
My point is there are different strokes for different folks, however I personally would be upset if I saw the outfits that JBR wore.There are headshots of her that when I first heard of the murder I assumed she was a teen or older!there are costumes that look like Patsy's when she competed. A tiny Vegas show girl? a pout like a sexual diva? JBR did not pick these outfits or just act like that. Where do you buy tiny Vegas outfits? I have never seen any.
And that is why so many are upset, not because of the competing or pageants.

 

[Brefie]

And that is why so many are upset, not because of the competing or pageants.

Personally speaking, it's the costumes that JBR wore specifically AND teaching a child she must change her appearance to be deemed good enough or pretty enough. I don't agree with putting make up on any CHILD - unless they want a little treat of dressing up 'just like mom'. No 'not good enough' messages in that.

 

[narlacat]

>>Where do you buy tiny Vegas outfits? I have never seen any.<<

Well, if you are Patsy Ramsey you design them yourself with the help of your sister, and then you get the seamstress friend ( Pam Griffin) to make them for you. (for a price)

 

[narlacat]

Personally speaking, it's the costumes that JBR wore specifically AND teaching a child she must change her appearance to be deemed good enough or pretty enough. I don't agree with putting make up on any CHILD - unless they want a little treat of dressing up 'just like mom'. No 'not good enough' messages in that.

This has always been my point.
What Patsy was teaching her child was that it's not enough to be pretty, you have to be prettier.
Seems to me, JonBenet could have grown up to be another Paris Hilton.....a person who was incredibly spoilt and totally obsessd with their looks.
I know John has said he always made a point to JonBenet, to concentrate on the 'talent' part of the pagent, but let's face it, he wasn't around all that much at that time and Patsy entered her in competitions that had no talent part at all, regardless of what John thought.