Found Deceased NEW ZEALAND - Grace Millane, 22, British backpacker, Auckland, 1 Dec 2018 *Arrest* #2

[Littlegreenlady]

Thank you for everyone for the updates.

I feel so sad for Grace's family. Why is it that the woman's sexual history always comes into play. It's like even when dead, she is effetively being shamed for her sexual tastes. The thing is, it shouldn't matter whether the choking was consensual or not. He took it too far. Whether or not she liked 50 shades, or whether or not she asked him to do it, doesn't take away from the fact he abused her trust.

I'm not into it myself, but a friend of mine is. I know that trust is absolutely pivotal - and generally, she wouldn't do it with someone she had just met. It would be more something to explore with a long term trusted partner. Obviously that's her choice and if Grace chose to do it with him, there's no judgement from me there, but it makes me so angry that the defence are trying to blame her for the death.

 

[mrjitty]

I'm wondering why the prosecution has left Grace's ex-boyfriend to the defence. That doesn't feel friendly to the prosecution, even if it is evidence that works more in the defence's favour. What do you think about that @mrjitty ?


"During the trial, jurors were told they will hear that Grace had an interest in role play and sexual activity from a former boyfriend."

Grace Millane murder trial: British backpacker was strangled to death by Tinder date, Crown says

Something i dimly remember from procedure is that each side should call the witnesses that are more relevant to their own case, so that they can then produce Evidence in Chief from that witness. Behind the scenes where everyone is almost always totally professional, they do deals over who will call each witness.

So they may have simply agreed that because the boyfriend has no relevance to the Crown case, the defence needs to call him for EIC. That means the Crown can X. Also the Crown is under a duty to call the relevant witnesses but they are under no obligation to call witnesses just so that the defence can indulge in speculation.

Seems doubtful the witness is hostile to the Crown and one suspects the Judge will be tight on this.

 

[mrjitty]

Having said all that, I would still convict him of murder whether he was a liar or not, on the facts of this case. The evidence given by the other woman he almost suffocated to death, the way in which he immediately then created a drama about him having cancer, his sexual activity with Grace's dead body, not believing the consensual or accidental explanation - consent being a continual process not just an initiating concept, and nothing to explain him not reacting to the physical processes Grace's body would have gone through from becoming non-responsive and him maintaining that pressure (minutes is a long time) until she dies.

I think he has a very dangerous complex of personality disorders. He was not fazed at all by her death.

IMO he is guilty of murder even based on his own confession

 

[mrjitty]

Thank you for everyone for the updates.

I feel so sad for Grace's family. Why is it that the woman's sexual history always comes into play. It's like even when dead, she is effetively being shamed for her sexual tastes. The thing is, it shouldn't matter whether the choking was consensual or not. He took it too far. Whether or not she liked 50 shades, or whether or not she asked him to do it, doesn't take away from the fact he abused her trust.

I'm not into it myself, but a friend of mine is. I know that trust is absolutely pivotal - and generally, she wouldn't do it with someone she had just met. It would be more something to explore with a long term trusted partner. Obviously that's her choice and if Grace chose to do it with him, there's no judgement from me there, but it makes me so angry that the defence are trying to blame her for the death.

What's odd is that if this were a rape case, this kind of evidence is normally banned.

But because it is a murder case, seemingly some leeway has been given?

I really will be fascinated to read all the procedural rulings if/when they are released.

 

[Elainera]

I get the feeling this guy has a sort of Jekyll and Hyde personality. I don't believe he killed before or we wouldn't have all his activities on countless cctv cameras. He kept his dark urges in check up until last November when through a combination of an unrestrained sex/*advertiser censored* addiction and alcohol he couldn't control himself anymore and acted out his dark urges. If not caught then he would have gone on to kill another woman I'm sure. He would have become a serial killer. IMO

 

[Kikixxxx]

i cant believe how many matches hes getting on tinder to be honest? like you only need to look at him to realise he thinks hes some kind of gods gift to women. but hes getting dates daily? i don't get it. hes deff got no pals, his whole life seems to revolve around going on dates/talking to girls on tinder... the worst type of guy. i sill cant get over the ' me? no my uncles the oil manager' how embarrassing.

 

[Edinlass]

i cant believe how many matches hes getting on tinder to be honest? like you only need to look at him to realise he thinks hes some kind of gods gift to women. but hes getting dates daily? i don't get it. hes deff got no pals, his whole life seems to revolve around going on dates/talking to girls on tinder... the worst type of guy. i sill cant get over the ' me? no my uncles the oil manager' how embarrassing.

I remember a guy I dated like this at high school. Tripping over his own lies. Cringe.

Edit - I must point out he wasn’t as creepy just lied for the sake of lying. Lol

 

[Mariposa]

i cant believe how many matches hes getting on tinder to be honest? like you only need to look at him to realise he thinks hes some kind of gods gift to women. but hes getting dates daily? i don't get it. hes deff got no pals, his whole life seems to revolve around going on dates/talking to girls on tinder... the worst type of guy. i sill cant get over the ' me? no my uncles the oil manager' how embarrassing.

The way he described Tinder to Detective Settle was telling the bit about how it's all about looks and people choose pictures to look more appealing, but may not be 'real', I think he was telling on himself there. It is kind of a perfect medium for a fantasist. Grace may have been slightly more credulous than other dates due to being a lone traveler who had just gotten to Auckland and was unfamiliar with it. then I believe he turned her impending birthday into an occasion for prodigious drinking, which may have helped him maneuver her back to CityLife.

I wonder if he had a history of any longer term relationships with women. Soon after the crime last year it was reported he had a child with someone but of course that does not necessarily mean it was a long term relationship.

 

[LucyRocket]

i cant believe how many matches hes getting on tinder to be honest? like you only need to look at him to realise he thinks hes some kind of gods gift to women. but hes getting dates daily? i don't get it. hes deff got no pals, his whole life seems to revolve around going on dates/talking to girls on tinder... the worst type of guy. i sill cant get over the ' me? no my uncles the oil manager' how embarrassing.

You think? Now that's interesting. I thought he was very good looking, I would have swiped right. But having met him I think he quickly would have got on my nerves

 

[Kikixxxx]

You think? Now that's interesting. I thought he was very good looking, I would have swiped right. But having met him I think he quickly would have got on my nerves

Well he’s not ugly or anything he just looked a bit slimey to me in the pics I saw. His profile was just a bunch of selfies of himself posing / sticking his tounge out ..

 

[Sarahlou]

You think? Now that's interesting. I thought he was very good looking, I would have swiped right. But having met him I think he quickly would have got on my nerves

I agree he is decent looking, I'm not surprised he was able to get matches.

Another point someone mentioned, I agree I don't think he has killed before, I don't think he is smart enough to have got away with it.

 

[mrjitty]

I get the feeling this guy has a sort of Jekyll and Hyde personality. I don't believe he killed before or we wouldn't have all his activities on countless cctv cameras. He kept his dark urges in check up until last November when through a combination of an unrestrained sex/*advertiser censored* addiction and alcohol he couldn't control himself anymore and acted out his dark urges. If not caught then he would have gone on to kill another woman I'm sure. He would have become a serial killer. IMO

I think he would have killed his date the next night if he had the chance.

 

[Kikixxxx]

I mean I’ve just googled again and the first one that come up is of him pouting to the camera

 

[mrjitty]

It's not really surprising he was staying at City Life and before that a guest house

Normal people flat with others, or have a permanent 1 bed flat. Clearly he was unable to sustain those kind of relationships.

I wouldn't mind betting his job history is all of the place.

 

[mrazda71]

Re hearing from an ex boyfriend of Grace - This concerns me*

Ched Evan's got away with Rape because his girlfriend & her Dad managed to persuade/bribe an ex of the victim to testify that she would say (very common) certain phrases during their consensual sex.

Ched Evan's is a rapist.
This accused is a murderer.






*(though I don't think at this stage there's any chance he'll get a not guilty to murder)

 

[scapa]

Having said all that, I would still convict him of murder whether he was a liar or not, on the facts of this case. The evidence given by the other woman he almost suffocated to death, the way in which he immediately then created a drama about him having cancer, his sexual activity with Grace's dead body, not believing the consensual or accidental explanation - consent being a continual process not just an initiating concept, and nothing to explain him not reacting to the physical processes Grace's body would have gone through from becoming non-responsive and him maintaining that pressure (minutes is a long time) until she dies.

I think he has a very dangerous complex of personality disorders. He was not fazed at all by her death.

An excellent summary. I agree that this is very dangerous individual and one who seems to have been ramping up. Had he gotten away with Graces murder he would, IMO, almost certainly killed again, though perhaps not immediately.

He reminds me a bit of an older Aaron Campbell in terms of his mix of pathologies. Poor Grace.

 

[CrazyLilBlondie]

You think? Now that's interesting. I thought he was very good looking, I would have swiped right. But having met him I think he quickly would have got on my nerves

Unfortunately: same. I used to be an avid Tinder dater going on 3 dates a week like an addict haha! Boys who look like him do very well on Tinder. At face value he is good looking, confident, chatty, wealthy (false) and has an exciting life and connections(false). It was cited in an article previously that he bought shirts and watches just to take good Tinder pictures showing wealth. On paper he ticks alot of people's boxes and its no wonder he appeared to be having almost daily dates with women - sometimes having two lined up a day (like the day he was due to have a lunch date the same day he met Grace). Its easy to judge now we know about him and what he's done, but for a girl judging just on pictures and words through a dating app he would appear quite a catch!

 

[GimmeAclueBlue]

I cant remember this slime balls name now! It was everywhere at first, i remember googling it when it first happened and thinking he was very vain

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I cant remember this slime balls name now! It was everywhere at first, i remember googling it when it first happened and thinking he was very vain

Just google Grace Millane killer and there are plenty of pics under the images tab.

 

[GimmeAclueBlue]

Just google Grace Millane killer and there are plenty of pics under the images tab.

I have it now thanks to a kind sleuther