Found Deceased NEW ZEALAND - Grace Millane, 22, British backpacker, Auckland, 1 Dec 2018 *Arrest* #2

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
Mariposa said:
PrimeSuspect, I bet he did punch her in the face for two reasons

1) the amount of blood in the hotel room was significant, and the medical expert said bleeding from the nose of a strangled victim could happen but wouldn’t expect much. I know the defense pushed the idea that the cleanup of a small amount got diluted and made it look like a lot of blood. I don’t buy it, there was a LOT of blood, soaking the carpet, drips and castoff on the fridge and other items. Requiring lots of cleaning supplies and Rug Doctor. Most strangulation murder scenes are not bloody-there was more to it.

2) in his ‘rough sex’ story to detectives he made sure to mention ‘hitting and biting’. He couldn’t have known the state of the recovered body after days in a suitcase in the bush would be such that the medical examiner could not tell if she had suffered, say, a split lip. So in my opinion he mentioned that to cover for those injuries being evident.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

The Crown will focus on this in closing.
 
The real problem for the defence is there is no credible evidence for his version at trial, if he does not testify

All we have is a second exculpatory version given in police interview, after he already lied to them extensively. Then his second "true" version contained multiple lies as proven by the photos and *advertiser censored* evidence. It simply can't be reconciled that he was sleeping in the shower and not seeing the body in the dark, whilst also watching *advertiser censored* and photographing the body.

So the Crown will argue that his second version should go in the dustbin "in toto" because as a witness he is not credible or reliable. Nothing he says can be believed, unless independently verified.

IMO to address this he really has to testify to explain the discrepancies and make himself available for robust cross examination.

If he does not do so, adverse comment cannot be made BUT it does mean, there is no reliable evidence to support his version.

IMO the prosecution will focus on that, and the Judge may well comment adversely in summing up.

Key elements of his supposed version were not disclosed to police prior to trial.

How on earth the defence intends to handle the *advertiser censored* and photos i have no idea.

Let alone going on a date with a dead body still in his room.
 
Pepper77 said:
It'll be interesting to see if the defence team manage to find someone(s) to act as a character witness as part of their hearing.

To my ear, the accused speaks with quite a thick Aussie accent (although I do know he is a NZer, as it was earlier reported). He obviously spent a LOT of time over there. Maybe that's where he made all his money? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

A character witness would have opened the door to a wave of prosecution witnesses talking about what a creep and scam artist he is
 
Pepper77 said:
It's near-on impossible to get a job - any job, be it CEO or janitor - here in NZ without reference checks being done. It'd be interesting to see who he provided as references ... he wouldn't have got a job if he was outright terrible at everything he did.
Click to expand...

This is why I think Hospo is a good shout

He has worked in the industry, including in AKL, and if you have worked at a few places everyone knows, then it won't be checked too closely often.

I mean when I worked in restaurants in the 90s, and you said you worked at X or Y, everyone would know who your bosses were. People come and go in that industry as well.
 
Can't stop thinking about her on this balmy night down here. <modsnip> hurts my heart.

I also just realised how he does indeed walk backwards for a second when he first sees her. Life man. It really is all little moments. Their lives would both be better if he did.

It's sad that someone died in moments of panic but it's also sad to know she won't have another drink with her mates, she won't cook dinner with her family, she won't buy a pair of jeans that fit so <modsnip> right again. And that's what life is. That's what's nice in it.

She could've met a decent dude who was a funny bugger and had the accent and hey, even have given her a better kiss. It's a complete shame the last human she saw was such a mediocre, <modsnip> who was not deserving of her nice face and her kindness to random staff.

I don't really get into these cases too much. This is only the second. But there's something about similar young people that hurts you.

To the people who said they wanted to drink a New Zealand pinot to 'celebrate' this guy being done. Please don't. There is nothing to celebrate. Don't be a vigilante and get excited because a bloke who killed a girl has gone to prison. No winners.

I've got a few Steinlagers with me and I'll remember my own good times travelling.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Pepper77 said:
He apparently said that his last day of work was on the 30 November, but didn't the police pick him up from one of the local hotels where he'd been working? The uniform he was wearing was one of bar / wait staff for one of the hotels. Maybe when he was picked up he was working in a casual capacity, whereas the 'job' he made reference to finishing up at was more permanent in nature. Lots of maybes ... I think he also did something with the City Life (casual worker of some sort) to be given such a generous weekly room rate in what looks to be an older style decorated room (not up-to-the minute ... perhaps it was left off the renovation updates list and assigned to staff at a cheap rate as it overlooks an air conditioning unit or something). All MOO.
Click to expand...


Thank you. I think it is likely that he worked for City Life in some capacity. I worked for a hotel chain in my teens and would "live" there for weeks at a time. They wouldn't charge for our room if the hotel wasn't full.
 
Pepper77 said:
I don't think they would have (missed it). The police are very clever and don't divulge every single little detail of what they're thinking or speculating behind the scenes. I think the jury will pick up on all the contradictions.

This is what Narcs do - they lie, lie, lie. And claim other peoples' merits as their own. He lives in fantasyland ... perhaps he thinks if he says things enough times they'll come true.
Click to expand...

Quite. If you will pardon the phrase, sometimes it is best to give someone enough rope to hang themselves.
 
Grace Millane trial: Murder-accused's date's evidence continues

This is very interesting and I think it's been missed on here. The girl who talked about being restrained but who sent 700 messages said at the end of the day in court, that she actually had a boyfriend at the time.

While it's mostly irrelevant to the crux of the issue – if Grace Millane was murdered – it is very interesting.

While she seems smart and witty enough to play dead, use his 'I'm feeling sick, because I have cancer you know?' as a way to pretend to call an ambulance then leave... it's smart to keep texting the guy a little then taper off, but it's also pretty weird to be as forward and into it as she was.

As vain as it sounds: would love to see what she looks like and I'd love to know her dating background.
 
Edinlass said:
I still go back to his last date whom he recalled to police as a ‘friend’. I just like the fact she declined his offer to a second date. In the situation he was in at that point he must have felt some kind of void to his somewhat void-less life.
Click to expand...
Omg I’m so so happy she did that
Pepper77 said:
His grandparents loaned him "a couple of hundred of dollars" a few years back but other than that, there's been no mention of his family being wealthy. If my memory serves me correctly his parents broke up when he was young - maybe he reconnected with one or the other later in life and they've been subsidising his expenses

WINZ would not look too fondly on helping someone who has the means to buy drinks and have a credit card, especially nowadays as they've come under a lot of scrutiny in the past. Although, he could have been using a debit card to pay for all of those things. I don't know this for a fact, but I'm imagining they would be more likely to help someone who was prepared to live somewhere far cheaper than where he was living - such as a boarding house on the outskirts of the city - unless there was a very real need for him to live in that exact location. This might sound insensitive - and apologies if it does as that's not my intention - but does he perhaps have an artificial limb (leg)? There's something about his walk that makes me think that. If so, maybe he qualified for some sort of disability grant.
Click to expand...
omg i noticed the funny gait too? i did think why is he walking like that... but i didn't wanna mention it incase it come off wrong. hmm i think you could be onto something.
 
sunnynz said:
RSBM. Yes, but I read that as a short time until unconsciousness, but then sustained strangulation would have to carry on for minutes after that before death occurs. i.e. he would HAVE to notice she's unconscious while he's still strangling her for minutes.
Click to expand...

Yes, upon reading it again I think you're right. In that case, I have no idea what his defence is going to be. The length of time is just too long, and she'd be struggling and fighting against it. I'm intrigued what angle they'll go for.

Is the accused going to be called as a witness, does anyone know? I know in some cases they don't do it, to stop them being cross examined.
 
JG123 said:
Yes, upon reading it again I think you're right. In that case, I have no idea what his defence is going to be. The length of time is just too long, and she'd be struggling and fighting against it. I'm intrigued what angle they'll go for.

Is the accused going to be called as a witness, does anyone know? I know in some cases they don't do it, to stop them being cross examined.
Click to expand...

I would be shocked if he chooses to testify in his own defense. I can’t picture him being steady and credible on the stand withstanding pointed cross-examination, based upon the way he responded to Det. Settle challenging him in a very calm, dry manner. Taking the stand would be disaster for this defendant.

It was something that Brookie was able to basically get a legal defense out and recorded in the detective interview. A way for the defendant to claim he didn’t intentionally hurt her and apologize to her family on tape without having to do so subject to cross-exam. I haven’t seen many things like that in the US where a criminal attorney is sitting in on a recorded interrogation and manages to get the key to the defense case stated by the client like that and then the prosecution plays it in court.

not that I think the defense will succeed.
 
JG123 said:
Yes, upon reading it again I think you're right. In that case, I have no idea what his defence is going to be. The length of time is just too long, and she'd be struggling and fighting against it.
Click to expand...

No, that's the crucial point, when continued pressure is applied to the neck the person will lose consciousness fairly quickly (in under a minute) and stop struggling. They will become "floppy" as the expert witness put it. If the neck is released at this point they will most likely survive. For death to occur the accused would have to have continued strangling her for minutes after she stopped struggling.

IMO strangulation should always be classified as murder, because why else would you continue choking an unconscious person? There is no way he didn't know she would die from his actions and continued choking her "by accident". IMO

For me his despicable behaviour after she had died, his lies, his past dates, his stupidity, etc, are all irrelevant. Death by choking, strangulation or suffocation is always murder because it takes a long time to kill someone this way. He had 3+ minutes to stop and let her go. He didn't.
 
Random thought but it was pointed out on here that he appeared to be wearing the exact same clothes on his Tinder date on December 2 as he did on his Tinder date with Grace on December 1.

Given how much stuff he cleaned or disposed of from that night I surmise he wasn’t wearing that when he attacked Grace and caused her to shed blood.

Of course he could have duplicates of his “Tinder date uniform” he would be strange enough for that.
 
Mariposa said:
Random thought but it was pointed out on here that he appeared to be wearing the exact same clothes on his Tinder date on December 2 as he did on his Tinder date with Grace on December 1.

Given how much stuff he cleaned or disposed of from that night I surmise he wasn’t wearing that when he attacked Grace and caused her to shed blood.

Of course he could have duplicates of his “Tinder date uniform” he would be strange enough for that.
Click to expand...
haha yeah i liked how someone referred to it earlier as his 'default date' outfit ahaha. I'm thinking he wouldn't of had any clothes on when he caused her injuries, i think hes telling the truth about it happening during what was at first consensual sex. i mean he certainly didn't have time to wash them before going on that date the next day which is a bit grim anyway really. He did take his bedding and some clothes to get washed at the dry cleaners now i think about it but i'm sure this was a couple days after...
 
I've been lurking but finally caught up.
Poor Grace.

Just a little question please. Are witnesses for the defence compelled to attend?

I don't understand why her ex-boyfriend would fly to the other side of the world to defend her killer?

Some of my exes are d!cks but I'm not sure I'd ever defend someone who hurt them
 
flutterby said:
I've been lurking but finally caught up.
Poor Grace.

Just a little question please. Are witnesses for the defence compelled to attend?

I don't understand why her ex-boyfriend would fly to the other side of the world to defend her killer?

Some of my exes are d!cks but I'm not sure I'd ever defend someone who hurt them
Click to expand...

Yes witnesses can be compelled
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Fairfield County Jane Doe (1993)?

Members online

... and 139 more.
Total: 454 (members: 140, guests: 314)

Online statistics

Members online
140
Guests online
314
Total visitors
454
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
609,308
Messages
18,252,483
Members
234,614
Latest member
TraxMaster
Back
Top