Elainera
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2012
- Messages
- 12,276
- Reaction score
- 20,747
Link?
I read a bit about this case after I saw it mentioned on here (I’m in the US) and it was so horrible I can’t even read more about it.You might want to check the Joe McCann trial happening simultaneously in the UK. He's a serial rapist and the accusations and insinuations by the defence his victims have to listen and answer to while on the stand are just awful! One woman was crying even.
I understand. Imo, Grace was the unlucky one, he would've killed someone, it just happened to be her. 'If only' is our catchcry.I took this to mean he found it sad that nice young men would be viewing her profile, and wishing to meet her. By which time she had already died, and no-one knew. Quite poignant to think that she could have met any number of nice men who would have found her attractive
I feel the same, there are good defence lawyers, and the defendant deserves a fair trial but these particular ones, can be quite alarming in the lengths they will stoop to. I'm sure they wouldn't want their daughter in the same room with this man, let alone date him but somehow they can heap dirt onto the victim without batting an eye. It takes a certain type of person to do this job.I read a bit abut this case after I saw it mentioned on here (I’m in the US) and it was so horrible I can’t even read more about it.
For this case at hand, after the way the defense attorneys bullied and berated the woman who came forth to give evidence about her date with defendant where he restricted her breathing — I have no time for these particular defense attorneys. They can eff off with their sniveling unnamed client.
As in, they probably just thought she was cute and had no idea she'd been killed.Why? Everyone has their preferences and shouldn't be ashamed of it.
Thank you @jamjim and @LucyRocket for the trial updates and everyone else commenting, makes for an interesting discussion.
I'm learning a lot during this trial as with every one I've followed. One of my daughters uses Tinder and Bumble too.
But for the grace of God . a phrase my granny used often . So true .Honestly, there but for the grace if god go all of us. When I think of all the potentially risky positions I’ve put myself in as a young woman.. it doesn’t bare thinking about.
As in, they probably just thought she was cute and had no idea she'd been killed.
It seems like everyone is getting very uppity about wanting to be seen as more progressive and liberal than the next person. The brandishing around of a certain buzz phrase is really showing that.
The defense is not trying to slur her or make her out to be anything. Ultimately, she died during or soon after sex. The sex was instigated by a dating app. The defense is also trying to delineate between sexual 'breath play' and strangulation.
It is pretty relevant to bring in any evidence of Millane's sexual history.
I actually had a look at Whiplr last night and it is pretty barren. I had a quick look and even with every filter open, there seemed to be about two dozen active accounts in Australia. I'd never even heard of it and I'm a young man with normal friends who talk pretty openly about sex. It is very niche.
The other thing is that you literally tick off boxes of what you're into and that's displayed on your profile. There's lots of interests there. It would have been very relevant to bring the Whiplr/WhatsApp guy onto the stand if they actually bothered to ask 'what was on her profile? What interests were listed?' If they were exclusively related to breath play and restriction, it would again be of interest. But they didn't. That's their fault as a defense – not them being grubs.
People on here are throwing around terms like 'he just seems that way.' I obviously think the evidence of him watching *advertiser censored* that morning, going on a date with another woman, rifling through her handbag is crook. And the reasonable assumption that his life had a heavy emphasis on Tinder doesn't make him look that full as a person. He also showed little remorse and his first reaction was to get away with it. Yeah I agree, the guy has issues.
But that's not how law works.
This comes down to the immediate event.
People on here just acting off instinct and emotion and saying he just seems weird just is not how the legal system works. Our current legal system has traits shared with the Ancient Egyptians. C'mon.
Grace of God? More like indiscriminate luck.Honestly, there but for the grace if god go all of us. When I think of all the potentially risky positions I’ve put myself in as a young woman.. it doesn’t bare thinking about.
The defense is not trying to slur her or make her out to be anything. Ultimately, she died during or soon after sex. The sex was instigated by a dating app. The defense is also trying to delineate between sexual 'breath play' and strangulation.
It is pretty relevant to bring in any evidence of Millane's sexual history.
The defense isn't trying to say it's her fault. The defense's job is to represent their client and get the best possible outcome. Ultimately, manslaughter is a better outcome for the accused than murder.I know what your saying but someone made an excellent point a few pages back, if someone was into playing with guns as a sexual fetish for example, and it went off by mistake, does that mean its solely her fault and the other party isn't culpable because she 'was into it'... no, he has to take some responsibility, he has to know when hes going too far and its becoming dangerous, and if he has went too far that's on him, not her. The judge clarified what could be classed as murder and i quote;
'Justice Simon Moore addressed the jury on the definition of murder, which he said he would set out further in his closing address.
He said they could reach a conclusion of murder if they were satisfied there was intent to cause death, or if the person causing injury was reckless in their actions.
Grace Millane murder trial: Accused didn't intend to kill backpacker, defence says
personally, i'd say hes been reckless, and again that's on him. I understand the defence have to use this stuff but i find it insulting as they're basically saying ' but she likes it, she asked for it, she does it all the time... its not his fault' and thats wrong imo. i also struggle to see how it was at all relevant to call the guy she slept with the night before as a witness, he contributed nothing to back up the accused and his version of events. It seemed like they were solely using him to show the court that grace slept with this guy the night before.
It’s a saying.Grace of God? More like indiscriminate luck.
This is a crime forum so surely people expect these details and understand how cases unravel though?I think the issue is that there will be people who victim blame, and there always are, wether it be a rape cause or a murder case. Some people would rather believe a woman was ‘asking for it’ than to accept that some people are just out and out wronguns! The information about her sexual history is totally relevant in this case, but it doesn’t excuse what happened to her. It’s also bloody grim for those who know and love her to have to sit through.
I’m a lawyer licensed to practice law in the United States, so yeah I do get how legal systems work. Thanks though!As in, they probably just thought she was cute and had no idea she'd been killed.
It seems like everyone is getting very uppity about wanting to be seen as more progressive and liberal than the next person. The brandishing around of a certain buzz phrase is really showing that.
The defense is not trying to slur her or make her out to be anything. Ultimately, she died during or soon after sex. The sex was instigated by a dating app. The defense is also trying to delineate between sexual 'breath play' and strangulation.
It is pretty relevant to bring in any evidence of Millane's sexual history.
I actually had a look at Whiplr last night and it is pretty barren. I had a quick look and even with every filter open, there seemed to be about two dozen active accounts in Australia. I'd never even heard of it and I'm a young man with normal friends who talk pretty openly about sex. It is very niche.
The other thing is that you literally tick off boxes of what you're into and that's displayed on your profile. There's lots of interests there. It would have been very relevant to bring the Whiplr/WhatsApp guy onto the stand if they actually bothered to ask 'what was on her profile? What interests were listed?' If they were exclusively related to breath play and restriction, it would again be of interest. But they didn't. That's their fault as a defense – not them being grubs.
People on here are throwing around terms like 'he just seems that way.' I obviously think the evidence of him watching *advertiser censored* that morning, going on a date with another woman, rifling through her handbag is crook. And the reasonable assumption that his life had a heavy emphasis on Tinder doesn't make him look that full as a person. He also showed little remorse and his first reaction was to get away with it. Yeah I agree, the guy has issues.
But that's not how law works.
This comes down to the immediate event.
People on here just acting off instinct and emotion and saying he just seems weird just is not how the legal system works. Our current legal system has traits shared with the Ancient Egyptians. C'mon.
It's a bit uncouth considering her name was Grace...It’s a saying.
I get you but if you 'accidentally' kill someone, do you really then go on pornhub after and take pictures of the corpse?.. do you really not notice a dead body lying there after your shower? the rooms not that big. and again do you go on tinder and arrange another date while a dead body is still lying in your hotel room, half hanging out a suitcase. His actions don't look like someone that accidentally murdered someone to me... I also struggle to see how there was so much blood from just a nose bleed? the cast off drops on the fridge too, it just doesn't add up. The cast off drops means the blood would still have had to be wet when he lifted her (or however else that blood got there) and that goes against what he says about finding her dead the next day.. the blood would have been dry by then?The defense isn't trying to say it's her fault. The defense's job is to represent their client and get the best possible outcome. Ultimately, manslaughter is a better outcome for the accused than murder.
The differentiation between manslaughter and murder can be staked by all the information that's been brought up by witnesses.
In pretty simple terms, if she had previously wanted partners to put their hands around her neck and it's happened again, that's a lot more in line with manslaughter (more 'accidental') than him doing it with intent and/or premeditation (murder).
Not condescending you whatsoever – more so posters who seem to be firing from the hips and bringing up his creepiness. It's irrelevant. The immediate issue is the case and finding him gross and using that as a base to add evidence to isn't how law should or does work.I’m a lawyer licensed to practice law in the United States, so yeah I do get how legal systems work. Thanks though!
I think everyone's pretty tame compared to other social media platforms, no hysteria, just common sense, it's natural to discuss the prosecution and defence's tactics, can't one show distaste for something that is unsavoury?As in, they probably just thought she was cute and had no idea she'd been killed.
It seems like everyone is getting very uppity about wanting to be seen as more progressive and liberal than the next person. The brandishing around of a certain buzz phrase is really showing that.
The defense is not trying to slur her or make her out to be anything. Ultimately, she died during or soon after sex. The sex was instigated by a dating app. The defense is also trying to delineate between sexual 'breath play' and strangulation.
It is pretty relevant to bring in any evidence of Millane's sexual history.
I actually had a look at Whiplr last night and it is pretty barren. I had a quick look and even with every filter open, there seemed to be about two dozen active accounts in Australia. I'd never even heard of it and I'm a young man with normal friends who talk pretty openly about sex. It is very niche.
The other thing is that you literally tick off boxes of what you're into and that's displayed on your profile. There's lots of interests there. It would have been very relevant to bring the Whiplr/WhatsApp guy onto the stand if they actually bothered to ask 'what was on her profile? What interests were listed?' If they were exclusively related to breath play and restriction, it would again be of interest. But they didn't. That's their fault as a defense – not them being grubs.
People on here are throwing around terms like 'he just seems that way.' I obviously think the evidence of him watching *advertiser censored* that morning, going on a date with another woman, rifling through her handbag is crook. And the reasonable assumption that his life had a heavy emphasis on Tinder doesn't make him look that full as a person. He also showed little remorse and his first reaction was to get away with it. Yeah I agree, the guy has issues.
But that's not how law works.
This comes down to the immediate event.
People on here just acting off instinct and emotion and saying he just seems weird just is not how the legal system works. Our current legal system has traits shared with the Ancient Egyptians. C'mon.