GUILTY NH - AH, 14, North Conway, 9 October 2013 - #14

[tlcya]

I look forward to hearing more about the case the prosecution is building and what led them to Kibby. I am not worried they have the wrong man. Just very curious to see what led them to suspect him. As many have pointed out - I don't believe it was necessarily the sketch that caused LE to look at him. But I am confident that something did.

Many of the people who have interacted with him through the years and have since spoken in the press describe him as volatile, unyielding in his beliefs and ideas, anti government, difficult to deal with, a loner, creepy and off putting. Based on some of his letters to the editor and his letter to the auto accident party, he seems like he feels as if he is very clever and knows the law. I wonder if when he went to go get his guns at the police station he exhibited an unusual level of interest in Abby's reappearance or the case in general. LE is always on the lookout for people who seem TOO interested in an active investigation.

 

[SStarr33]

I'm wondering what made them arrest him in the first place? The sketch? I would think police acted on more than that. As for him being strange according to some neighbours, and having a criminal history, those factors don't necessarily mean he kidnapped her......so what led to the arrest? I just cannot believe it was based solely on the sketch.
Having said that, regardless of where the trailer home is, if there is no forensic evidence, then there is no forensic evidence. So if her hair samples are not there or whatever else they are searching for, then does it matter where the trailer sits?
Then I keep thinking others are privy to info. I am not.......so must show patience and see it play out. It's all strange to an outsider of the legal world!

I was thinking that it was Abby who told police it was him. Is that wrong?

 

[tlcya]

we have the raw footage of the presser back there somewhere in the mist. I think her statement was that the arrest stemmed from information obtained from Abigail. Would have to rewatch the presser to get her exact wordage.

 

[seven100]

why possibly taint the crime scene by moving structures...you can't tell me that posting an officer at the site would cost any more than the past ten months of intense searches...

I hope you don't mind that I've singled out this small part of your post for a quote, but I'm curiose about some of the financial aspects of this too. How much does it cost to move a single wide trailer and a storage container vs. keeping a police presence on the property? How much longer could they possibly search for evidence?

Also, since Kibby owns the trailer, but not the land, does the landlord have some right to his own property?

 

[Minette]

I think this guy is guilty as sin. That said, this is America, and he is entitled to a vigorous defense. It looks to me like LE scooped him up (and I think they were right to do so as Abby and many other young girls are still out there) before they had gone too far in the investigation. But the creepy predator's attorney needs to know at least some of what the state has so they can prepare a defense. So I am kind of baffled that more information did not come out in today's hearing. As to seven100's point above, I don't know what the eviction laws are in NH for a personally owned mobile home on leased land, but I'm guessing that the landlord could in fact instigate eviction proceedings, in which case I don't know if the trailer would be impounded by a towing company, or?? But I don't see that the landlord would be obligated to continue to keep the trailer on his/her property if NK isn't paying rent. Interesting point!

ETA: I also found this page of explanations of how someone with a mobile home on someone else's land can be evicted. For non-payment of rent, the eviction process could be started within 30 days. NK would still have the right to appeal.

http://www.nhlegalaid.org/self-help-guides/housing/evictions/evictions-manufactured-housing

 

[Irisha]

What? Because there might be exculpatory evidence in there that needs to be preserved.

What would be exculpatory evidence in this case from his residence and train car box made into 3 different compartments?? That proves she wasn't there?



If she was there, there's dna somewhere, and they will preserve it, then the defense will try to get it thrown out.

 

[Minette]

So in a quick search I found this page from New Hampshire Legal Aid:

You rent a lot from a mobile home park or co-op and your mobile home sits on the lot. Your landlord has to get a judge’s permission before you must leave.

http://www.nhlegalaid.org/self-help-guides/housing-foreclosure/evictions/questionanswer-walk-through-eviction-process

So it seems that the landlord could go to court and ask for an eviction, but there is a process that would have to be followed that would allow NK's mobile home to stay on the lot until 8 days after a writ of possession is granted by the court. The law also requires the landlord to care for the personal possessions of the evictee for 7 days after the writ. Of course, if the criminal court judge allows the mobile home & storage container to be removed, I guess this process would no longer apply.

 

[mpnola]

I'm wondering what made them arrest him in the first place? The sketch? I would think police acted on more than that. As for him being strange according to some neighbours, and having a criminal history, those factors don't necessarily mean he kidnapped her......so what led to the arrest? I just cannot believe it was based solely on the sketch.
Having said that, regardless of where the trailer home is, if there is no forensic evidence, then there is no forensic evidence. So if her hair samples are not there or whatever else they are searching for, then does it matter where the trailer sits?
Then I keep thinking others are privy to info. I am not.......so must show patience and see it play out. It's all strange to an outsider of the legal world!

Well, the fact that Abby sat in court that day with him would certainly suggest she identified him! Otherwise, she certainly wouldn't sit there in court with the a person she didn't think had anything to do with her kidnapping. That'a at least my take on it!

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I do not think that they were on to him until less than 48 hours before his arrest. This is actually exactly what Jane Young said in court at the arraignment, and I believe her. Keep in mind that Kibby walked into a police station on the day etch-a-sketch man was released and they actually gave him his guns back. At that point, I can only assume that the police did not have Kibby on their radar at all, or else they never would have given firearms to an "anti-government" guy they thought they might be arresting soon.

For some reason, LE was not suspicious of Kibby in the first 5 days or so after Abigail returned. I personally have some very serious questions as to the level of involvement this man has had in this case.

I think, too, that they only were on to him within 24-48 hrs of the arrest. I thought I read that somewhere, that they had gotten some new information the night before (presumably from Abby, though I don't know). But no, highly doubt it was the sketch. (Only the hairline was similar.)

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

STATE: Placement of trailer and mobile home are not exculpatory.

I wld ask the shld court grant def's motion, we will take steps to preserve it but def should be advised we can't be responsible for what cld happen (esp if rent can't be paid).

Judge: That was going to be my question; fencing considered?

STATE: Yes, we got estimate today that it'd be $12,000

[!!???!!!]

Quoting this part from the hearing. Does anyone else think this estimate is extremely high for encircling that closely-spaced site with chain link fencing (mentioned at closing)? We live on acreage and put in some steel rail fencing, at least 100 yards, with additional stone decorative stone masonry across the front, for WAY less than that.

 

[SStarr33]

I went back and listened to the arraignment and they don't mention anything at all about why they thought it was NK.

Then I listened to the presser and they still didn't say it. I did notice that the female attorney with short blond hair called Kibby Mr. Keddy. How embarrassing.

 

[mpnola]

Quoting this part from the hearing. Does anyone else think this estimate is extremely high for encircling that closely-spaced site with chain link fencing (mentioned at closing)? We live on acreage and put in some steel rail fencing, at least 100 feet, with additional stone decorative stone masonry across the front, for WAY less than that.

If that was accurate, I don't know a single person who would have a fence! And we all have fences.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I look forward to hearing more about the case the prosecution is building and what led them to Kibby. I am not worried they have the wrong man. Just very curious to see what led them to suspect him. As many have pointed out - I don't believe it was necessarily the sketch that caused LE to look at him. But I am confident that something did.

Many of the people who have interacted with him through the years and have since spoken in the press describe him as volatile, unyielding in his beliefs and ideas, anti government, difficult to deal with, a loner, creepy and off putting. Based on some of his letters to the editor and his letter to the auto accident party, he seems like he feels as if he is very clever and knows the law. I wonder if when he went to go get his guns at the police station he exhibited an unusual level of interest in Abby's reappearance or the case in general. LE is always on the lookout for people who seem TOO interested in an active investigation.

BBM

I think if he had, the writer of this article would have mentioned it. He interviews the Conway police chief and reporter who casually "chatted" with NK in the lobby of the police station the day NK went to retrieve his hand gun and ammo for it (July 24th; Conway had 1 gun, Gorham had the rest). But instead, the chief just muses about how they talked about their mutual love for dogs and how NK fretted about a missing bullet. Seems majorly innocuous--why isn't Kibby taking off for Canada right after getting those guns if he's going to be a wanted man a few days later? (Certainly no job or personal commitments to keep him hanging around.) Instead, he's making small talk at a police station with the chief of police. SMH

Somehow, alleged kidnapper lived and worked undetected under the noses of the community, police

CONWAY— Just a few days before Nathaniel Kibby was charged with kidnapping Abby Hernandez, the Conway police chief and a reporter from the Sun were chatting with him at the police station.
...

A reporter from the Sun, Daymond Steer, Conway Police Chief Ed Wagner and Kibby made small talk in the Conway police station lobby.

Kibby was there to inquire about getting one of his handguns and 9mm ammo from the police department, which had been holding them until after trial for trespassing and the assault charges stemming from a March incident.
Under the bail conditions for those charges, Kibby could not possess guns but those conditions were removed after his trial on July 23. The assault charge was dropped and Kibby had a plea deal on the trespassing charge.

The conversation in the police station lobby happened a few days before Kibby was charged with kidnapping. 
Kibby fretted about a bullet he thought the police might have lost. He also talked to Wagner about their mutual love of dogs. Kibby seemed to express some surprise that Wagner's dog is named Norman.

"I have reflected back on it quite often," said Wagner. "Hindsight is always 20/20. You (the reporter) didn't think anything of it. I didn't really think anything of it...

http://www.conwaydailysun.com/newsx/local-news

 

[Minette]

Quoting this part from the hearing. Does anyone else think this estimate is extremely high for encircling that closely-spaced site with chain link fencing (mentioned at closing)? We live on acreage and put in some steel rail fencing, at least 100 yards, with additional stone decorative stone masonry across the front, for WAY less than that.

Yes, but you aren't required to use government contractors.

 

[tlcya]

If some pertinent piece of information on and active ongoing investigation was within my knowledge and I was law enforcement and being interviewed by the press, would I reveal those pertinent facts or bits of info? No.

 

[LookingHoping]

Quoting this part from the hearing. Does anyone else think this estimate is extremely high for encircling that closely-spaced site with chain link fencing (mentioned at closing)? We live on acreage and put in some steel rail fencing, at least 100 yards, with additional stone decorative stone masonry across the front, for WAY less than that.

No, fencing is not cheap. I fixed small pieces of an existing chain link fence and it cost a couple thousand. That was without any new footings. Beginning to end it is NOT a cheap job and realize this is around the entire lot! The quote sounds good and solid, if not low should they actually be covering the top which would mean much higher than a standard 4-5foot chain link.

 

[SStarr33]

No, fencing is not cheap. I fixed small pieces of an existing chain link fence and it cost a couple thousand. That was without any new footings. Beginning to end it is NOT a cheap job and realize this is around the entire lot! The quote sounds good and solid, if not low should they actually be covering the top which would mean much higher than a standard 4-5foot chain link.

I have no idea about pricing, but I think the entire thing is ridiculous. Do they move every house after a serious crime? Do they fence it?

 

[LookingHoping]

56x12 is a larger typical size of a single wide mobile home. Found this link to give you a clue on cost...http://www.homewyse.com/services/cost_to_install_chain_link_fence.html (using Gorham NH zip code) Do the math for JUST the mobile home. I did not look up the property size, but just a 56x12 fence Perimeter of 136x16.75=2,278 For JUST the mobile home (and really not even as it is based upon the size of an avg single wide. Let's say they all have a 5K sq foot lot…100x50ft comes to $9,045 (remember this is the lower end cost) The quote is NOT off base at all… I'd say under the real cost if covered.

Here, I used this so I could have a link to cost: http://www.homewyse.com/services/cost_to_install_chain_link_fence.html Again, I used the low end, as well as Gorham NH rate chart…. and even if that is higher than real NH rates it is on target imhumblyopinionatedcow'svoice

Even if the lot itself is 1/2 that, when you cover it well….

Strangest thing I've heard, not strangest, but in comparison to moving his personal property (and that is what it is)… it is MUCH cheaper to lift that and pull it on its axle They are required to have them in Mobile Parks (and for any sort of financing) so that they can be moved off if need be. I see them being driven around by trucks ALL THE TIME and I'm about 45 minutes from there. It is a daily sight around here.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Yes, but you aren't required to use government contractors.

:floorlaugh:

Good one, Minette.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

No, fencing is not cheap. I fixed small pieces of an existing chain link fence and it cost a couple thousand. That was without any new footings. Beginning to end it is NOT a cheap job and realize this is around the entire lot! The quote sounds good and solid, if not low should they actually be covering the top which would mean much higher than a standard 4-5foot chain link.

I think the concrete pour and footings is likely the more expensive part of fencing. But I guess I'd assumed they'd put in 'temporary' chain link (like at construction sites?). Secure but not a permanent structure on the landlord's property.