GUILTY NH - AH, 14, North Conway, 9 October 2013 - #14

[Bravo]

Hey, y'all! This is my very first post and its probably already been mentioned since y'all are on a different topic now, but a few threads back I read that Kibby is much taller than Abby's 5'4 frame (and the sketch said they were looking for a short man). I'm 5'3 and my husband is 6'2. I don't notice how much bigger he is than me until I look at pictures of us together. When you're standing/sitting next to someone you don't pay too much attention to their height. Once again, sorry this is so off topic.

:welcome:

 

[Steleheart]

Jumping off this post as I haven't had time or honestly the desire to sit here and read...been busy with work....

Anyways, my personal experience is what I'm gonna share but it isn't exactly similar to this case.... with the exception of the media.... and remember, I work in journalism up here in NH....

She is a child. There is a suspect in custody. Ongoing investigation.....
When I was just a couple years older than Abby, I had a relentless stalker. I and NHSP Major Crimes and my local PD all knew who the suspect was, but could not find him. He was hiding while he was wanted.
Needless to say I was a prisoner in my own home. LE elected NOT to contact the media for help as it would spook him... but the ruthless local newspaper reporters./.. they were very well aware of what was going on and were relentless... could have totally ruined the case against this stalker who was probably going to murder me if he wasn't stopped.... the media made this VERY difficult for me.... they followed me and then I was being stalked by these idiot local reporters who only wanted to make me look bad for a story.... this suspect in my case was also over 30 years old and I was a teen.... RIDICULOUS!!!! My attitude towards them became vicious....
I get why abby went to court, she has EVERY RIGHT to be there... I went to court. I faced the man who committed offenses on me... I was at every single court date.... and I was scared to DEATH!
JBlock is right, please don't feed into the media.... saying thank you is fine, she is a survivor and can breathe again for the first time in quite a while but they are being relentless towards her. LE has this.... they have used every possible resource in evidence recovery and the investigation is still ongoing.... let them do their thing.... do you have tips?? they are still taking tips regarding Kibby..... let's let Abby get back to being Abby

^^ THIS

she has EVERY RIGHT to be there... I went to court

please don't feed into the media.

:cow:

 

[tlcya]

The defense wants the trailer and container etc to be left there on the property at the park. The DA office wants it all moved and stored offsite.

I am only surprised that this motion comes now, at this late date, when LE has been removing items and allegedly taking apart the storage container for almost two weeks now. Closing the barn door after the horses have run??

I suspect Mr. Kibby upon hearing reports of digging and LE asking about digging, is concerned with them finding something he is not sure they have found yet. Possibly by moving the items on the property something will be revealed that he does not want?

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I want to thank all of the professionals that have chimed in on the thread. I truly appreciate you sharing you knowledge and being able to learn from all of you.

I am not a professional, but I am a trauma survivor. Many advances have been made over the years in treating survivors of trauma as mentioned by our verified physician. It is very true, that we do not know how survivors are coping on a minute by minute basis. What we are seeing now though, is better supportive networks that help to strengthen and empower those that have been through trauma. This is a major and must needed advancement for a better long term outcome.

I have followed various cases, where I have seen people judged strictly on appearance, body language and what they have stated in the media or on camera. I personally have reacted the way I have seen others act, who have been wrongly judged. I also understand the great harm that comes from the judgment of crime victims and their loved ones. All individuals are different and react differently. No two experiences are identical. Human behavior and response, cannot be textbooked to fit all, nor can I or anyone else say that because they don't think they would have reacted that way, that the victim/survivor or family member is wrong in the way they react.

This is why I ask for help from all to educate others about refraining from judgement, especially before all the circumstances are sorted out and the investigation is complete. We need to do this for Abigail and for other crime victims, to help them in their healing process.

 

[Pensfan]

I guess we will have to disagree on this, on several levels. While I paid a six figure sum into the US treasury during the 2013 tax year and am in the process of doing the same and then some during the 2014 tax year, I don't feel I am more entitled to confidential information and details regarding an open investigation, than someone who pays less than me or than someone who pays nothing at all. I grasp that there are times when LE needs to avoid compromising an active investigation. Clearly if the charges against Kibby are going to stick some evidence will be needed and I trust that will be introduced at the time of his hearing and trial. I can be patient and allow LE and the justice system to do their jobs. Beyond that I suppose that I just really don't need all the details and I don't think I am entitled to them. I do believe that Abby Hernandez and her family have the right to some privacy, space, and peace through this time. They are not obligated to satisfy our curiosity and I suspect that they do not want to do anything which may compromise the investigation and set up a situation where Kibby is unable to be convicted on technicality and in a position to harm another child.

^Respectfully shortened

In response to your previous statement of “this is not our business", I posted that the public is entitled to know their tax dollars are wisely spent. That is not a declaration that I feel entitled to confidential information.

Within the strict limits of Websleuth's edicts I can say that my personal definition of "wisely spent" is that I want to know that the actions of all individuals involved in Abby’s nine month disappearance and release are being investigated. Some actions of law enforcement are more popular/acceptable with the public. Without a certain level of transparency, the actions of some departments can become selective and/or self-serving. This can allow some who have committed crimes to escape prosecution.

Additionally, although not fully confirmed, there is a sense that severity of trauma is actually much less of a good predictor for PTSD than we thought in the past. This has been suggested in the pediatric literature and I know that adult gene studies are currently being conducted with US marines.

The gene studies I have recently read show that individuals with childhood abuse histories experience changes in their gene activity patterns, not that those born with specific genes are more predisposed to developing PTSD symptoms.

 

[lauramags]

The defense wants the trailer and container etc to be left there on the property at the park. The DA office wants it all moved and stored offsite.

Interesting...I guess this debunks my thoughts that he had possibly dug an area under the trailer/container making it more soundproof, easier to hide her? etc. etc.

 

[tlcya]

I am not sure what it means lauramags. It is interesting. The rest of the items requested be preserved seem like perfectly normal requests to me but the concern about the trailer and container being removed to another location puzzles me. The other items (blood, fiber evidence, DNA, etc) I think are logical defense requests. they want to preserve the samples so there are enough left for their own experts to vet with independent testing. The motion about the trailer confuses me. Yes, he owns them, but he does not own the land. He is going to be busy for a while and not likely to be out on bail needing to live there even if LE would allow it and they were done with the scene. That specific motion seems like it is more Kibby's concern and not about his defense but about people touching and taking HIS stuff and moving HIS stuff. I wonder if it is just part of his nature for that to be his big concern right now or if he fears something specific.

 

[white rabbit]

I don't disagree, tlcya, I can see a paranoia in NK that would in his mind "justify" this motion. but any half-wit defense attorney wouldn't want to push for this and make him look just that. paranoid.

so I still don't understand the defense's push for this. what exactly are they trying to preserve? I get the 'leftovers' they would want their own experts to analyze...but that's not the prosecution's motive. am I correct?

(snipped from above link)

In his motion Tuesday, Friedman said prosecutors have given him only an 8-page arrest warrant and affidavit, as well as a one-sentence charging document, since his client’s arraignment July 29. He asked Judge Pamela Albee to order the state to preserve Kibby’s property and several other pieces of evidence for the defense team to review.
The attorney general’s office opposed the motion, saying they will work to protect evidence, but keeping Kibby’s mobile home and the storage container on site is impractical. Federal and state authorities searched both the trailer and the unit behind Kibby’s home for days after his arrest last week.

“The property cannot simply be left unattended,” the attorney general’s office wrote in their response. Officials said they would need to station a police officer in Kibby’s trailer park at all times to prevent onlookers and the media from trampling on the property.

They said the trailer and the storage container will be moved to an undisclosed secure location, and investigators will give defense lawyers “photographs taken of the area as it existed at the time” Kibby allegedly “committed criminal acts on the property.”

carrots for a rabbit? anyone? thoughts?

 

[white rabbit]

http://www.fresnobee.com/2014/08/05/4056235/defense-state-spar-over-evidence.html

Kibby's public defender, Jesse Friedman, is asking a judge to secure all evidence, including medical records from exams of Abigail, phone and text records, investigative notes and blood, saliva and other bodily substances. He wants the protection extended to evidence collected at Kibby's home in Gorham and the town house Abigail shares with her mother in nearby Conway.

 

[gnomony]

(snipped)


The attorney general’s office…(snip) said the trailer and the storage container will be moved to an undisclosed secure location, and investigators will give defense lawyers “photographs taken of the area as it existed at the time” Kibby allegedly “committed criminal acts on the property.”

I may have missed something, but… is this the first time the prosecution has alleged that NK committed crimes on his property? (That's not what he is currently charged with.)

 

[tlcya]

this link discusses the other items I mentioned with this sentence only. The bigger deal is being made (including by me) of the trailer and container.

He asked Judge Pamela Albee to order the state to preserve Kibby’s property and several other pieces of evidence for the defense team to review.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/08/05/defense-moves-preserve-evidence-abigail-hernandez-case/dWubqOps6H0frwTzlk4mmO/story.html

and I am looking for the link I read earlier because it contained more specificity about what the defense was asking be preserved. And the things I listed in my post above were referenced. That is why my speculation went the way it did. But now I cannot find it so wondering if something was edited or I've lost my mind.

 

[tlcya]

Kibby's public defender, Jesse Friedman, is asking a judge to secure all evidence, including medical records from exams of Abigail, phone and text records, investigative notes and blood, saliva and other bodily substances. He wants the protection extended to evidence collected at Kibby's home in Gorham and the town house Abigail shares with her mother in nearby Conway.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/08/05/6021261/defense-state-spar-over-evidence.html

Thank goodness. I thought I had lost my marbles for a sec.

Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/08/05/6021261/defense-state-spar-over-evidence.html#storylink=cpy

ETA is anyone else experiencing lag??

 

[white rabbit]

i'll ask again...why is a public defender asking for these items to be preserved? as if they wouldn't be? it's the prosecution's best shot at a conviction...evidence of blood, et cetera, evidence she was at the site, held against her will, via storage container and dna/saliva/bodily fluids, texts, phone records...

wouldn't the DA readily make this available and/or disclose it to the defense? not to us, I understand that...but after almost two weeks, having to make a motion to protect such evidence? or is that their prerogative...not to reveal the hand they're playing until the probable cause hearing? legally I mean...

why possibly taint the crime scene by moving structures...you can't tell me that posting an officer at the site would cost any more than the past ten months of intense searches...

again, would love gitana or another attorney to chime in here...I admittedly have no idea what I'm talking about...

 

[Pensfan]

It's possible that that the FBI took evidence from Kibby's trailer for additional reasons unrelated to Abby's abduction. Remember Kibby wrote anti-government letters to the editor and worked for two gun manufacturers.

 

[mpnola]

I don't know if that is common defense procedure or if they are insinuating something, wanting the calls/ texts and evidence from Abby's home- like insinuating they had previous contact, possibly even in her home?

 

[mpnola]

i'll ask again...why is a public defender asking for these items to be preserved? as if they wouldn't be? it's the prosecution's best shot at a conviction...evidence of blood, et cetera, evidence she was at the site, held against her will, via storage container and dna/saliva/bodily fluids, texts, phone records...

wouldn't the DA readily make this available and/or disclose it to the defense? not to us, I understand that...but after almost two weeks, having to make a motion to protect such evidence? or is that their prerogative...not to reveal the hand they're playing until the probable cause hearing? legally I mean...

why possibly taint the crime scene by moving structures...you can't tell me that posting an officer at the site would cost any more than the past ten months of intense searches...

again, would love gitana or another attorney to chime in here...I admittedly have no idea what I'm talking about...

I agree! I have to say if I needed to be defended, I would not them move my entire house and the contents somewhere until my team got a chance to see it, too! In it's natural state! Not after it has traveled somewhere!

 

[tlcya]

waiting for one of our verified attorneys to address why the DA might want to remove the trailer and container from the premises to another secured location? I mean I would thik it would be more convenient and easier to control access to them offsite. But rarely have I seen a whole household and its contents seized and taken as evidence KWIM?

 

[white rabbit]

mpnola, I have no idea what they're insinuating but good post. and I'm not insinuating anything either.

I'd love a legal perspective on this. IMO this seems exactly the opposite of what usually happens in these "we have no idea the circumstance" cases...

why does the defense want warrants unsealed and evidence protected. if I were a PD, I'd say "seal 'em and destroy whatever you want" if my client was guilty.

and I do believe NK is guilty. of what, well...I'm not sure now.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Jon Chrisos ‏@JonWGME 30m

New court docs in #AbigailHernandez alleged kidnapping case show state wants to move Kibby's home and storage unit

(Hope I got the blue link to work, now...hoping with zoom some can read?)

 

[mpnola]

Just something I had not seen yet- a photo of where he worked:

https://twitter.com/amyWMUR/status/494127180238974976/photo/1