NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #10

[margarita25]

I wonder what has come to light about this incident?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=841653&postcount=39

 

[margarita25]

Reference to North Conway FWIW:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=869737&postcount=106

 

[BillNH]

I wonder what has come to light about this incident?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=841653&postcount=39

Tom would qualify as a "local dirtbag" although I hate that phrase. Known drug dealer and general lowlife. Many believed his business dealings in narcotics led to his death.

 

[margarita25]

List of NH Attempted Abductions:
http://boston.cbslocal.com/tag/attempted-abduction/

 

[Lolacat]

Respectfully snipped.

I somehow missed the fact that she ordered pizza that same night!! I am a binge eater, and what I often do in stressful situations is that once I feel relief from whatever is bothering me, I binge on food (often pizza). So my thought is that she came up with a plan that gave her relief, and she decided to order a pizza while she planned, packed, etc. This is similar to how people who plan suicide often seem calm beforehand. I don't know if this makes a lot of sense, but ordering a pizza at 3:40am is exactly something I would do if I had a crazy situation going on but the IMMEDIATE stress was gone, so now I was in planning mode.

This doesn't help with much, of course, because we already know she planned the trip.

Interesting, and it makes sense. Eating disorders are usually about control (or lack of it) and I have always believed that lack of control was a big issue in Maura's life. I mean, good grief, even her cell phone records went to her boyfriend's mother!

Going off on a tangent, there has been much talk on the blog about the morality /legality of Maura going missing if she disappeared voluntarily (I was also thinking about the Tim Carney case too). Of course, anyone has the absolute right to do this but I was wondering- if someone goes missing and is then found, are they under any legal obligation to pay back authorities who have spent time and money looking for them? Or, does it vary according to whether they faked their death (and therefore deliberately misled police etc) or just vanished? I tried googling it but came up with no answers. Does anyone know? thanks

 

[Jane Birch]

Are you sure the note was left actually on top of the boxes, or was it found amongst her things by an investigator(s) who then place it on top?

It wasn't a note, though. According to Maura's family, it was a note FROM Billy TO Maura....according to Renner it was printout of an old email. He maintains it was an old email about him having cheated on her, but as far as I'm concerned anything that comes from Renner is accompanied by a rather large block of salt. All I know is that Maura's family has repeatedly stressed (often in capital letters just like this) that THERE WAS NO NOTE.

As for where it was originally, I think the only people who know that are Maura (who put it there) and Billy and the people who opened her UMass dorm room. Billy was apparently there at the time.

 

[OldSteve]

It wasn't a note, though. According to Maura's family, it was a note FROM Billy TO Maura....according to Renner it was printout of an old email. He maintains it was an old email about him having cheated on her, but as far as I'm concerned anything that comes from Renner is accompanied by a rather large block of salt. All I know is that Maura's family has repeatedly stressed (often in capital letters just like this) that THERE WAS NO NOTE.

As for where it was originally, I think the only people who know that are Maura (who put it there) and Billy and the people who opened her UMass dorm room. Billy was apparently there at the time.

Thanks for the clarification ^^! All well said, too!

 

[OldSteve]

I am new to this case, as I just finished watching Maura's case on "Disappeared". I look fwd to seeing what you guys have come up with. I'm curious as to your thoughts on the phone call made the next morning at 7am to Billy.

I can't believe its been almost ten years and she is still missing. Her father absolutely breaks my heart. He deserves to know what happened to his daughter!!

I made a map posting all the points mentioned on the "Disappeared" episode for my own reference & visual aid while following along with the episode; I added Abby's location for reference as well.

http://goo.gl/maps/YldSC

I believe someone might have abducted her, and he was/is fairly local to the area (in the words of her a father, a "local dirtbag").

What about other missing persons, and/or attempted abductions in the area over the last 10 years (and previously to Maura's disappearance)?

Lots of catching up to do here----ten threads.

Glad to see new people here! This was the first crime (disappeared) show I had ever watched on TV and that's how I became interested in these cases..

Maura's is a really fascinating one, like an English mystery story...

Anyone new here should watch the Youtube video:

Maura Murray's Last Known Drive - YouTube

ETA: It's a hunting video that has you wondering what was going on in her mind.. The loneliness of that ride in car that we think was not running well...
ETA: Note the condition of the road, and try to picture running on that at night without a flashlight! Wife and I were night runners and without a light, you're going to twist an ankle, or take a spill... Black ice, stones, ...

 

[scoops]

It wasn't a note, though. According to Maura's family, it was a note FROM Billy TO Maura....according to Renner it was printout of an old email. He maintains it was an old email about him having cheated on her, but as far as I'm concerned anything that comes from Renner is accompanied by a rather large block of salt. All I know is that Maura's family has repeatedly stressed (often in capital letters just like this) that THERE WAS NO NOTE.

As for where it was originally, I think the only people who know that are Maura (who put it there) and Billy and the people who opened her UMass dorm room. Billy was apparently there at the time.

The people that you refer to that were with billy when the dorm room was searched were police officers. And those police officers relayed to the main investigator in Maura's disappearance that there was a note found laying on top of the packed boxes on Maura's bed.

So on one hand, the main investigator has said in a statement that the note was found on top of the packed boxes and billy's mom has said that there was no note.

Someone has to be fibbing in this scenario. Either there was a note or there wasn't a note.

So who in this scenario would have the reason to fib?

Considering the note contents (if true about billy being unfaithful), then IMO, I could see why he would want to downplay the significance of that note.

If you think police are lying in this scenario, then there has to be a whole lot of conspiracy floating around that area, considering this would've been UMASS police that investigated Maura's room and not the New Hampshire police that have already been accused of lying (by family) considering this case.

So do you have police agencies in two different states lying about their investigation into Maura's disappearance?

It just doesn't stand up on a common sense level.

 

[Jane Birch]

The people that you refer to that were with billy when the dorm room was searched were police officers. And those police officers relayed to the main investigator in Maura's disappearance that there was a note found laying on top of the packed boxes on Maura's bed.

So on one hand, the main investigator has said in a statement that the note was found on top of the packed boxes and billy's mom has said that there was no note.

Someone has to be fibbing in this scenario. Either there was a note or there wasn't a note.

So who in this scenario would have the reason to fib?

Considering the note contents (if true about billy being unfaithful), then IMO, I could see why he would want to downplay the significance of that note.

If you think police are lying in this scenario, then there has to be a whole lot of conspiracy floating around that area, considering this would've been UMASS police that investigated Maura's room and not the New Hampshire police that have already been accused of lying (by family) considering this case.

So do you have police agencies in two different states lying about their investigation into Maura's disappearance?

It just doesn't stand up on a common sense level.

UMass police didn't ever say anything about a note, to my knowledge, and those were the folks who were with Billy. They are not by a long shot the "main investigators" of this case.

The people who gave the info in the presser were the NH authorities. And they were.....in New Hampshire when Billy was in the room. Billy's mom corrected their info, they agreed to correct it publicly, and never did so.

 

[scoops]

UMass police didn't ever say anything about a note, to my knowledge, and those were the folks who were with Billy. They are not by a long shot the "main investigators" of this case.

The people who gave the info in the presser were the NH authorities. And they were.....in New Hampshire when Billy was in the room. Billy's mom corrected their info, they agreed to correct it publicly, and never did so.

It wouldn't be UMASS police that would say something about what they discovered in the dorm room. They were working on behalf of the lead investigator in New Hampshire who couldn't be there for the search. They would report what they found to him and he would decide from that which tidbits of information to release to the public, if anything.

 

[BillNH]

Billy's mom corrected their info, they agreed to correct it publicly, and never did so.

That statement above deserves a block of salt all it's own.



Strezlin had no reason to fabricate his statement, especially since the officers that actually opened the room could refute anything he said that was inaccurate. The Raushes on the other hand, have gone out of their way to make B & M's relationship appear as rosy as possible.

I think the wording of what was said is very important in this whole thing. Strezlin says about Maura "she left a personal note to her boyfriend on top of the boxes". That to me is not a specific statement, it is a general statement that can encompass many forms of communication. Strezlin may not have been at liberty to divulge the details during an investigation. Sharron says "there is no note". Billy says "there were no recent letters to him from Maura that were found". If in fact it was an email(not a note per se), from Billy to Maura (not from Maura to Billy) that was on top of the boxes then they all are making truthful statements. Sharron's and Billy's statements are accurate, but not directly addressing the statement by Strezlin that they are trying to discredit.

Below is the article the statements came from.

http://dailycollegian.com/2005/01/26/missing-students-parents-angry-over-police-investigation/

 

[BillNH]

It wasn't a note, though. According to Maura's family, it was a note FROM Billy TO Maura....according to Renner it was printout of an old email. He maintains it was an old email about him having cheated on her, but as far as I'm concerned anything that comes from Renner is accompanied by a rather large block of salt. All I know is that Maura's family has repeatedly stressed (often in capital letters just like this) that THERE WAS NO NOTE.
As for where it was originally, I think the only people who know that are Maura (who put it there) and Billy and the people who opened her UMass dorm room. Billy was apparently there at the time.

Please compare the 2 sentences bolded by me, and explain. The family maintains there is no note, but they also maintain it was a note from Billy to Maura?

 

[OldSteve]

One of things I always thought would have helped, if a video similar to
Maura Murray's Last Known Drive - YouTube

had been done at late evening, around the time MM had her car crash, on a similar winter's night after a snowfall and with the moon in same phase.

With all the investigation that's been done, it a puzzle to me that this kind of reenactment was never done. It would answer once and for all the question of if she could have made a run for it!

 

[Lolacat]

One of things I always thought would have helped, if a video similar to
Maura Murray's Last Known Drive - YouTube

had been done at late evening, around the time MM had her car crash, on a similar winter's night after a snowfall and with the moon in same phase.

With all the investigation that's been done, it a puzzle to me that this kind of reenactment was never done. It would answer once and for all the question of if she could have made a run for it!

I agree, it would be really helpful. Thanks for the link. I haven't see that video before. Its terribly sad watching that.

 

[Amy74]

I always took the "There is no note" comment as trying to dispel the idea that Maura left a suicide note. A printed email is not a "note" in my mind.

 

[Jane Birch]

I always took the "There is no note" comment as trying to dispel the idea that Maura left a suicide note. A printed email is not a "note" in my mind.

Thank you, Amy74. That is precisely the context in which it was used by Sharon more than once. I'm not going to split hairs or get into a pissing contest.

 

[scoops]

I always took the "There is no note" comment as trying to dispel the idea that Maura left a suicide note. A printed email is not a "note" in my mind.

What's odd about this whole "note" spin is that the only people to ever link it to a possible suicide note are Maura Murray family spokespeople. It sure hasn't been the police who have always referred to it as a personal note left to billy (Which it likely was just that, whether or not it was in email form or not) it was a personal message left behind and since it is said the subject had to do with both billy and Maura then it would stand to reason that the personal message was intentionally left for billy, whatever that message was.


For the cliff notes version, will just call it what it really is

more Maura Murray family spokespeople spin.

They have produced a ton of spin when it comes to telling the public the story of Maura over the years.

--Maura is the All-American Girl --- SPIN
--Maura and billy had the perfect relationship -- SPIN
--Fred had specific instructions for a random rag for Maura to handle car smoking issues --- SPIN
-- Maura just hadn't had a chance to unpack from winter break yet, even though she had been back almost two weeks and everything in her dorm room was packed up and stacked up on her bed ---- SPIN
--Maura's car was on its last leg --- SPIN (it apparently got to NH just fine)
--Police (who knew absolutely nothing about Maura and truthfully wouldn't care a lick about her in the early days when all they have is an abandoned car to deal with) just decided to makeup the theory that Maura came to the mountains to harm herself --- SPIN
--some boogeyman snatched Maura up --- SPIN (absolutely no evidence whatsoever of this)


But let's not get into a pissing contest.

 

[Lolacat]

What's odd about this whole "note" spin is that the only people to ever link it to a possible suicide note are Maura Murray family spokespeople. It sure hasn't been the police who have always referred to it as a personal note left to billy (Which it likely was just that, whether or not it was in email form or not) it was a personal message left behind and since it is said the subject had to do with both billy and Maura then it would stand to reason that the personal message was intentionally left for billy, whatever that message was.


For the cliff notes version, will just call it what it really is

more Maura Murray family spokespeople spin.

They have produced a ton of spin when it comes to telling the public the story of Maura over the years.

--Maura is the All-American Girl --- SPIN
--Maura and billy had the perfect relationship -- SPIN
--Fred had specific instructions for a random rag for Maura to handle car smoking issues --- SPIN
-- Maura just hadn't had a chance to unpack from winter break yet, even though she had been back almost two weeks and everything in her dorm room was packed up and stacked up on her bed ---- SPIN
--Maura's car was on its last leg --- SPIN (it apparently got to NH just fine)
--Police (who knew absolutely nothing about Maura and truthfully wouldn't care a lick about her in the early days when all they have is an abandoned car to deal with) just decided to makeup the theory that Maura came to the mountains to harm herself --- SPIN
--some boogeyman snatched Maura up --- SPIN (absolutely no evidence whatsoever of this)


But let's not get into a pissing contest.

One thing that confuses me about the rag in the tail pipe- what possible reason would Fred have to lie about this? Its a major piece of evidence and *if* foul play was involved then the significance of the rag becomes even more sinister. The rag doesnt really fit with the suicide theory either since *if* Maura had planned to kill herself in her car, why would she drive all that way to do it? - you can kill yourself in a car anywhere, as long as its out of sight. I dont understand why Fred would want to explain this away. It makes no sense at all. Am I missing something?

 

[BillNH]

One thing that confuses me about the rag in the tail pipe- what possible reason would Fred have to lie about this? Its a major piece of evidence and *if* foul play was involved then the significance of the rag becomes even more sinister. The rag doesnt really fit with the suicide theory either since *if* Maura had planned to kill herself in her car, why would she drive all that way to do it? - you can kill yourself in a car anywhere, as long as its out of sight. I dont understand why Fred would want to explain this away. It makes no sense at all. Am I missing something?

I think it was a knee-jerk reaction by Fred to damp the suicide talk. After his initial reaction that she was trying to harm herself, about the time he made this statement, IIRC, he was starting the 'local dirtbag' idea and it was not a well thought out response.