NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #10

[McSpy]

These are safety tips for women. Now, most of the time you could probably stay in the car with the doors locked, but there are some situations were you may want to hide away from the car.

http://www.thenonprofits.com/safety.htm

Keep in mind, these safety tips came about after many women became victims.

 

[scoops]

It has happened to woman though. There are also suggestions by LE that women should not stay in the car in a dark desolate place. That they should hide off the road and wait for LE to come by or for whoever they called for help.

That is my whole point.

That pamphlet refers to a "predator" not a criminal committing a crime of opportunity.

A predator (has pre-planned) that they are going to snatch a young female up.

Why would a predator be cruising Rt. 112 at 7:10 p.m. on a Monday night looking for young females stranded?

That is what makes no sense concerning Maura's case.

I could see a predator roaming up and down I-91 or a predator roaming a mall parking lot or a predator parking at the end of a parking lot at a college to pick a new victim.

But why would they be working Rt. 112 at evening instead of in the daylight?

A person (Maura) going through a downward spiral and on top of it, experiencing quite a bit bad luck with multiple car wrecks and breakdowns at work (all in the span of a few days) is all of a sudden going to run into the worst ultimate luck possible on top of everything else by meeting up with a predator.

What kind of karma does Maura have? She would have to be the unluckiest person to ever live.

That would be like a person who just got mugged by a group of people, staggering up and trying to get help as they are then ran over by a semi 20 minutes later in a completely different location.

I've seen that kind of thing happen in the movies, but not in real life.

 

[scoops]

Here is the bottom line concerning the foul play theory that should be considered.

In the near 10 years since Maura's disappearance, police investigators have never once introduced a foul play scenario.

And yes police have been vague over the years, but they have introduced a scenario involving Maura harming herself. They have introduced a theory involving Maura possibly being a run away.

Police have never introduced a theory about a killer on the loose. (In fact, if an officer has made a statement about a boogey man, it has been something like "Maura's father believes a predator snatched his daughter" ... Not we believe a predator may have snatched the missing Umass student.

If they had any inkling of belief that a predator is on the loose, IMO, that would've gotten out to the public at some point in the last 10 years.

Even if it would be a PR nightmare, you as a police department would not keep your residents in the dark that a killer was on the loose. That is unfathomable.

 

[goldiegirl]

I'm too tired and not intellectually capable of keeping up with the crime-of-opportunity debate, but I'll just throw this out there:

I don't know if you'd call this person a predator or an opportunist by the definitions being discussed, but say that a person who had a part of them that made them want to try something happened to be driving along - why not just take the chance and pick the stranded motorist up even if you weren't sure if it was a male or a female? If it turned out to be a male or multiple people or someone you otherwise weren't interested in, you'd just play the good Samaritan. Kind of like how prospective burglars will ring the doorbell to see if anyone is home, and if someone happens to be home they pretend they need help finding an address or need to use the phone. They don't have to know for sure that no one is home before taking a chance, just like a predator/opportunist/whatever he'd be wouldn't have to know for sure that Maura would be a young female in order to decide to give it a chance. If you think about it, say you are a "creep", you may just happen to come upon this situation and think, "You know, I've always wanted to try this, and this would be the perfect time because nobody's around and it's night. Let me just give it a shot." Then if the subject isn't who you're hoping for, you go with plan B as explained above. I mean really, what better circumstances for a first-time creep to act under?

Not that I necessarily believe that this is what happened. Just playing devil's advocate (hate that term).

 

[Lolacat]

Scoops, I'm really starting to come around to your theory of her planning to spend a night in a hotel then head up to the mountains on Tuesday. And after her wreck I guess it's not unreasonable to think that a good Samaritan did pick her up. I just have trouble with where they would have taken her and what she would have done after that. So you think they may have dropped her off in the parking lot of a hotel, and Maura decided to just go walk into the dark woods somewhere near there? Do you have any idea what hotels are in the area or where you think she may have been planning to stay?

I feel like I am also being swayed in this direction. I still have major questions though:

1. If Maura planned to leave this earth drunk on the white mountains, why did she take such a bizarre combination of alcohol? I wouldn't have thought white russians would have been the most practical way to get wasted, especially since she would have also had to have bought milk and lugged the whole lot up there. Why not pure vodka, Jack Daniels or tequila? They might not taste as elegant but if your aim is to get wasted quickly, they certainly get the job done.

2. Ive read numerous reports that she took her birth control pills with her. Why would you do this if you are planning suicide?

3. No hiking boots. (forgive me if this point is irrelevant- what I know about mountain climbing would fit on the head of a pin!) Would a person be able to climb a mountain effectively in just a pair of trainers?

4. I'm really struggling with the idea that after the unplanned car wreck she just took off in the pitch black to complete her initial plan. In the Disappeared episode, Fred indicates that its so pitch black out there that you can't even see your hand in front of your face. Would she really think to attempt to climb a mountain in such darkness? I mean, just because you want to end your life doesnt mean that you would enjoy being lost, cold and disorientated which is highly likely if she had attempted such a feat. I dont know, maybe I am underestimating just how distressed she actually was. If she was suicidal, I can see her wanting to end her life in the place she loved most. But the idea of her running into the woods to kill herself just doesnt feel right to me, not when she had such a specific plan in mind.

 

[newlyminted]

I'm too tired and not intellectually capable of keeping up with the crime-of-opportunity debate, but I'll just throw this out there:

I don't know if you'd call this person a predator or an opportunist by the definitions being discussed, but say that a person who had a part of them that made them want to try something happened to be driving along - why not just take the chance and pick the stranded motorist up even if you weren't sure if it was a male or a female? If it turned out to be a male or multiple people or someone you otherwise weren't interested in, you'd just play the good Samaritan. Kind of like how prospective burglars will ring the doorbell to see if anyone is home, and if someone happens to be home they pretend they need help finding an address or need to use the phone. They don't have to know for sure that no one is home before taking a chance, just like a predator/opportunist/whatever he'd be wouldn't have to know for sure that Maura would be a young female in order to decide to give it a chance. If you think about it, say you are a "creep", you may just happen to come upon this situation and think, "You know, I've always wanted to try this, and this would be the perfect time because nobody's around and it's night. Let me just give it a shot." Then if the subject isn't who you're hoping for, you go with plan B as explained above. I mean really, what better circumstances for a first-time creep to act under?

Not that I necessarily believe that this is what happened. Just playing devil's advocate (hate that term).

I think it just seems astronomically unlikely that something like this could have occurred in the 10 minutes between her being seen and the police arriving. First we have the time issue. It was 7pm, not midnight, so because it was 7pm a potential predator would likely think someone COULD happen upon this situation/ See Maura getting in their car.

Also, what would the odds be that in those 10 minutes a predator would just happen upon this situation, rather than a good Samaritan. Could it happened? Sure, but it seems far less likely than one of the other scenarios.

Now, granted i'm a New Yorker, so 7pm is pretty much considered the middle of the day to me, in terms of things being open/people being out and about. I could be wrong about there being a potential for people being out and around in that area at that time of night.

If we were to go with the predator theory, I think it would be more likely that Maura ran down the road and met with a predator elsewhere, than at the scene of the accident, simple because of the time issue. Assuming her running capabilities are true, in 10 minutes she could have gotten more than a mile down the road. If someone came along, picked her up and dropped her off elsewhere, she, obviously would have gotten much further. I think its more likely that one of those two things happened that would cause her to vanish from the scene, than someone picked her up with nefarious intent.

 

[SmoothOperator]

By the way, the 20-20 special was on last night and it of course detailed the cases of both Maura and Brooke Wilberger vanishing.

Brooke's remains were later found and her killer was brought to justice.

I wanted to point out that what happened to Brooke would be called the textbook definition of a "Crime of Opportunity."

Brooke was at her sister's owned apartment complex (I believe on Spring Break) cleaning lamp posts outside in broad daylight and this predator was lurking around the area and spotted Brooke.

He doubled back and somehow was able to lure her into his vehicle.

Criminal sees an opportunity, formulates a plan, and then executes which equals a Crime of Opportunity.


In Maura's case, she was involved in a wreck in the evening hours in the middle of nowhere (essentially).

Not many guys prowling around for opportunities at that time of night and furthermore, unlike Brooke, a predator doesn't have the benefit of being able to assess the situation beforehand.

Try driving onto someone at night time on a lonely dark road and see how long it takes you to figure out what in the heck is going on, let alone is the person a male or female. How many people are there etc....

The one incident that happened to be personally, scared the crap out of me a year or so ago as I was driving 55MPH down a dark highway around 1:30 a.m. and all I could make out a few hundred yards in front of me was some person's arms waving frantically up and down coming from the side of the highway.


I slowed up as I got closer to the scene and as my heart was racing not knowing what I was about to stumble upon, as I began approaching the person, I intentionally angled my front of my car directly at them and turned my high beams up.

It was then that I was able to see it was a very tall and skinny 20ish young white male. I quickly looked around and noticed that there was no other person around and no car around either --- and this person did not seem like they were injured or in immediate danger of something. Before he began walking towards my car (he was hesitant at first and kind of froze in spot with my high beams on him) I bolted away from the scene. I didn't know if he was up to any good or not.

Two days later, in our morning paper was a story about a guy who had crashed his car into a telephone pole (about 9 miles west of where I encountered him at) and he was suspected of drinking and driving and had fled the accident scene on foot and was eventually picked up by police (right in the same area I encountered him at). He actually lived just a few more miles from where I encountered him at and I am assuming he was trying to get home before police caught up to him.

But point of the story was, I had no idea what was going on when I saw those waving arms. It is something I wasn't looking for and completely startled me as I had my music blaring and was just looking forward to getting home from work.

It took me a good 30 seconds stopped with my high beams up to fully assess the situation and make my decision not to render assistance to this person.

I don't believe Maura's situation would fall into the category of Crime of Opportunity.

I completely understand what it is that you are saying about how you reacted the night you came upon the lone male walking down the side of the road, attempting to wave down a vehicle..as well as I would likely have a similar heart racing immediate reaction..confused as to what exactly was the situation that had a man, alone, with no vehicle in sight, waving me down as I came upon him in my car..

IMO, I believe many people would have similar thoughts and reactions in their unexpectedly coming up on this type of situation..

However, I also must point out that the criminal mind works in a much different manner.. Especially when speaking of a predator.. And IMO that is what is so very, very different about your situation vs. the situation of a lone female, after a car accident involving alcohol, who is an extremely vulnerable state(for an entire plethora of reasons), who is walking down the side of a road and is come upon by a predator, who very much assesses such a situation vastly different, in every way, than how you or I would..

Imo , its really apples to oranges..or as different as night is to day.. While the reaction of this type of predator may involve his heart racing, it would be for all together very different reasons than being fearful or confused..much, much different it would be racing with anticipation of having come upon an opportunity..

The criminal mind is much different, and their reactions are going to be much different, and very much ready to jump onto an opportunity should one present its self..and the fact is, that just as is proven in the Brooke Wilberger case, predators do exist, and they very much do act on opportunities when one presents itself in the form of a victim..

Their pulse quickens out of excitement, and many of them act as cool as cucumber when pulling up on and/or approaching a victim that's presented itself in an opportune way..These are the moments these type people live for..sad, but true.

In this case that perfect, opportune way would be the exact dynamics of what Maura Murray very unfortunately presented that night, on a cold, dark, back road, in a situation that left her extremely vulnerable, and therefor easy prey, that a predator would very much take quick advantage of..

Maura Murray's situation that night could not have presented a more perfect scenario for a crime of opportunity upon crossing paths with a predator..

It happens..whether some may feel the chances aren't great that it could have happened...nonetheless the fact is, that it happens.. A woman in a very vulnerable position, crossing paths with a predator, and thus leading to a horrific end for the woman..

Jmo.

**Please forgive the limitations that come w/my posting via mobile ATM**

 

[scoops]

I feel like I am also being swayed in this direction. I still have major questions though:

1. If Maura planned to leave this earth drunk on the white mountains, why did she take such a bizarre combination of alcohol? I wouldn't have thought white russians would have been the most practical way to get wasted, especially since she would have also had to have bought milk and lugged the whole lot up there. Why not pure vodka, Jack Daniels or tequila? They might not taste as elegant but if your aim is to get wasted quickly, they certainly get the job done.

2. Ive read numerous reports that she took her birth control pills with her. Why would you do this if you are planning suicide?

3. No hiking boots. (forgive me if this point is irrelevant- what I know about mountain climbing would fit on the head of a pin!) Would a person be able to climb a mountain effectively in just a pair of trainers?

4. I'm really struggling with the idea that after the unplanned car wreck she just took off in the pitch black to complete her initial plan. In the Disappeared episode, Fred indicates that its so pitch black out there that you can't even see your hand in front of your face. Would she really think to attempt to climb a mountain in such darkness? I mean, just because you want to end your life doesnt mean that you would enjoy being lost, cold and disorientated which is highly likely if she had attempted such a feat. I dont know, maybe I am underestimating just how distressed she actually was. If she was suicidal, I can see her wanting to end her life in the place she loved most. But the idea of her running into the woods to kill herself just doesnt feel right to me, not when she had such a specific plan in mind.

On point No. 1:
It is my belief that Maura wanted to stay in a hotel the night before, so having her favorite drink would make sense in that setting. (Pure guess) but I take it a step further and believe that she may have wanted to craft a final letter that night to leave in her car the next morning which maybe would've explained her motives a lot more.

Obviously the wreck happened, and at that point, she didn't scoop up all of her alcohol, just a bottle or bottles of vodka.

She left the scene of her accident with very little --other than what is believed to be a black backpack and the bottles of alcohol. What an odd combination of things to take when all your valuables get left behind?

On point No. 2:
This one, I really don't have an answer to. Although, Maura also is said to have a few textbooks with her as well. I would have to know more about Maura's normal day-to-day habits to understand why she would have these type of things with her. I had an ex who always kept a gym bag in her car at all times and it included some basic toiletries as well as clothes.
I just don't have a answer for why she would have her birth control pills with her or her school books.

On Point 3:
I do wonder what Maura typically wore when she would go on her hikes with her father.
The shoe brand Maura was wearing at the time she went missing are well known for their bowling shoes, but they also cater to "outdoor/adventure" activities with their hiking and casual shoe lines.

I have noticed that in a photo that you can find online which shows Maura posing with her father at a summit (which looked very recent to the timeframe in which Maura went missing), Maura is wearing gray baggy sweats and a black sweater/jacket of some sorts. And in a different photo after Maura had gone missing which shows Maura's sister holding Maura's found tennis shoes that were in her car, right next to the sister in the photo is what appears to be a gray pair of sweatpants and a black sweater/jacket --- being the only known outer clothing that Maura packed up and brought with her when she fled to NH.

On Point 4:
But just remember that she had just fled the scene of an accident.

She probably didn't realize at the time that police wouldn't be aggressively pursuing her right then.

I think she would've felt like it was either now or never. I don't think she would've felt like she could still wait until the next morning.

Of Course police treated her accident much like they would anyone else that is an adult age. They figured, they had the information they needed (by finding the registered owner) So they figured that person would eventually come to them wanting their vehicle.

 

[Lolacat]

On point No. 1:
It is my belief that Maura wanted to stay in a hotel the night before, so having her favorite drink would make sense in that setting. (Pure guess) but I take it a step further and believe that she may have wanted to craft a final letter that night to leave in her car the next morning which maybe would've explained her motives a lot more.

Obviously the wreck happened, and at that point, she didn't scoop up all of her alcohol, just a bottle or bottles of vodka.

She left the scene of her accident with very little --other than what is believed to be a black backpack and the bottles of alcohol. What an odd combination of things to take when all your valuables get left behind?

On point No. 2:
This one, I really don't have an answer to. Although, Maura also is said to have a few textbooks with her as well. I would have to know more about Maura's normal day-to-day habits to understand why she would have these type of things with her. I had an ex who always kept a gym bag in her car at all times and it included some basic toiletries as well as clothes.
I just don't have a answer for why she would have her birth control pills with her or her school books.

On Point 3:
I do wonder what Maura typically wore when she would go on her hikes with her father.
The shoe brand Maura was wearing at the time she went missing are well known for their bowling shoes, but they also cater to "outdoor/adventure" activities with their hiking and casual shoe lines.

I have noticed that in a photo that you can find online which shows Maura posing with her father at a summit (which looked very recent to the timeframe in which Maura went missing), Maura is wearing gray baggy sweats and a black sweater/jacket of some sorts. And in a different photo after Maura had gone missing which shows Maura's sister holding Maura's found tennis shoes that were in her car, right next to the sister in the photo is what appears to be a gray pair of sweatpants and a black sweater/jacket --- being the only known outer clothing that Maura packed up and brought with her when she fled to NH.

On Point 4:
But just remember that she had just fled the scene of an accident.

She probably didn't realize at the time that police wouldn't be aggressively pursuing her right then.

I think she would've felt like it was either now or never. I don't think she would've felt like she could still wait until the next morning.

Of Course police treated her accident much like they would anyone else that is an adult age. They figured, they had the information they needed (by finding the registered owner) So they figured that person would eventually come to them wanting their vehicle.

Thanks for your reply scoops. As far as you know, has anyone searched the bottom of the white mountains? I know its a huge area but have any searches been conducted in that area? I would be surprised if Fred hasn't attempted to make some searches in that area, considering his comments about her being found on the mountains, drunk and naked etc

 

[scoops]

Thanks for your reply scoops. As far as you know, has anyone searched the bottom of the white mountains? I know its a huge area but have any searches been conducted in that area? I would be surprised if Fred hasn't attempted to make some searches in that area, considering his comments about her being found on the mountains, drunk and naked etc

To my knowledge, no searches (professionally) have ever been done away from where maura's car was found.

 

[scoops]

I completely understand what it is that you are saying about how you reacted the night you came upon the lone male walking down the side of the road, attempting to wave down a vehicle..as well as I would likely have a similar heart racing immediate reaction..confused as to what exactly was the situation that had a man, alone, with no vehicle in sight, waving me down as I came upon him in my car..

IMO, I believe many people would have similar thoughts and reactions in their unexpectedly coming up on this type of situation..

However, I also must point out that the criminal mind works in a much different manner.. Especially when speaking of a predator.. And IMO that is what is so very, very different about your situation vs. the situation of a lone female, after a car accident involving alcohol, who is an extremely vulnerable state(for an entire plethora of reasons), who is walking down the side of a road and is come upon by a predator, who very much assesses such a situation vastly different, in every way, than how you or I would..

Imo , its really apples to oranges..or as different as night is to day.. While the reaction of this type of predator may involve his heart racing, it would be for all together very different reasons than being fearful or confused..much, much different it would be racing with anticipation of having come upon an opportunity..

The criminal mind is much different, and their reactions are going to be much different, and very much ready to jump onto an opportunity should one present its self..and the fact is, that just as is proven in the Brooke Wilberger case, predators do exist, and they very much do act on opportunities when one presents itself in the form of a victim..

Their pulse quickens out of excitement, and many of them act as cool as cucumber when pulling up on and/or approaching a victim that's presented itself in an opportune way..These are the moments these type people live for..sad, but true.

In this case that perfect, opportune way would be the exact dynamics of what Maura Murray very unfortunately presented that night, on a cold, dark, back road, in a situation that left her extremely vulnerable, and therefor easy prey, that a predator would very much take quick advantage of..

Maura Murray's situation that night could not have presented a more perfect scenario for a crime of opportunity upon crossing paths with a predator..

It happens..whether some may feel the chances aren't great that it could have happened...nonetheless the fact is, that it happens.. A woman in a very vulnerable position, crossing paths with a predator, and thus leading to a horrific end for the woman..

Jmo.

**Please forgive the limitations that come w/my posting via mobile ATM**

Oh, I have no doubt there are some real sick people out there that all they think about is doing harm to someone or something.

But just looking at maura's specific situation that night --- No doubt she was vulnerable and possibly intoxicated and would be a perfect victim for foul play.

But I just don't think the elements and the darkness would allow for a crime of opportunity in that situation. It would literally have to be a crime of destiny. (she was destined to die that evening and everything lined up just perfectly for events to set in motion for that to happen that a boogey man just happened along completely unplanned ahead of time and stopped to see what was going on with the stranded motorist and made a move).

it was brought up on here yesterday about a crime of opportunity taking place when a car burglar (in a parking lot) notices someone's purse in their empty car and how they would react and smash a window and steal the purse because of the opportunity that presented itself.

If you compare maura's situation to that, yes maura in a typical sunny setting in the middle of the afternoon out by her broken down vehicle would stand out to a predator driving by much like a purse laying in the front seat of an empty car stands out to car burglar. But maura's situation that night would be like a car burglar encountering a car in a parking lot that has completely tinted windows where you can't see anything inside the car. There may be a purse with tons of cash just sitting on the seat inside the car. There may be a person sitting in the car (can't see from outside because of the tint) you don't know (if you are the criminal) what's waiting for you inside the car, and my bet is that the criminal would move on to something else 9 out of 10 times and not take the chance that they are going to strike gold when the threat of getting busted is very high.

Could Maura have encoutered a predator that Monday night. Absolutely. But the odds are not good at all and with everything else going on in maura's life, she seemed to be in command enough to be orchestrating her own disappearance whatever that might eventually have meant.

 

[McSpy]

I don't disagree with this. But the question I have is - how do you think she ultimately got to the White Mountains? Do you think that a good Samaritan would pick her and drop her off at the foot of a mountain in the middle of the night? I just can't see someone being willing to honor that request. They would have to know it would be a death sentence under those conditions.

I agree and they certainly would remember it, because it was extremely odd. Not to mention, they would have probably told the story to others. Meaning, it had a good chance of being reported to LE eventually.

JMO

 

[McSpy]

I completely understand what it is that you are saying about how you reacted the night you came upon the lone male walking down the side of the road, attempting to wave down a vehicle..as well as I would likely have a similar heart racing immediate reaction..confused as to what exactly was the situation that had a man, alone, with no vehicle in sight, waving me down as I came upon him in my car..

IMO, I believe many people would have similar thoughts and reactions in their unexpectedly coming up on this type of situation..

However, I also must point out that the criminal mind works in a much different manner.. Especially when speaking of a predator.. And IMO that is what is so very, very different about your situation vs. the situation of a lone female, after a car accident involving alcohol, who is an extremely vulnerable state(for an entire plethora of reasons), who is walking down the side of a road and is come upon by a predator, who very much assesses such a situation vastly different, in every way, than how you or I would..

Imo , its really apples to oranges..or as different as night is to day.. While the reaction of this type of predator may involve his heart racing, it would be for all together very different reasons than being fearful or confused..much, much different it would be racing with anticipation of having come upon an opportunity..

The criminal mind is much different, and their reactions are going to be much different, and very much ready to jump onto an opportunity should one present its self..and the fact is, that just as is proven in the Brooke Wilberger case, predators do exist, and they very much do act on opportunities when one presents itself in the form of a victim..

Their pulse quickens out of excitement, and many of them act as cool as cucumber when pulling up on and/or approaching a victim that's presented itself in an opportune way..These are the moments these type people live for..sad, but true.

In this case that perfect, opportune way would be the exact dynamics of what Maura Murray very unfortunately presented that night, on a cold, dark, back road, in a situation that left her extremely vulnerable, and therefor easy prey, that a predator would very much take quick advantage of..

Maura Murray's situation that night could not have presented a more perfect scenario for a crime of opportunity upon crossing paths with a predator..

It happens..whether some may feel the chances aren't great that it could have happened...nonetheless the fact is, that it happens.. A woman in a very vulnerable position, crossing paths with a predator, and thus leading to a horrific end for the woman..

Jmo.

**Please forgive the limitations that come w/my posting via mobile ATM**

You said it well. Maybe Maura wasn't a victiim of a crime. We don't know, but it does happen and in all kinds of places. We hear of missing women all the time. Maura could have taken a chance and accepted a ride, because she was desperate. She didn't have to be abducted off the road for a crime to happen. Maybe the guy thought she was a male, but was pleasantly surprised she was not. His wheels start to turn. He had a few drinks. Maybe he was stoned too. He gets physical with her, but she rejects him. He gets angry and the rest is history. This scenario isn't something new. We've seen it before many times.

Like you, I believe a crime of opportunity was possible. There are weirdos everywhere and NH has their share of them. For example, the guy who killed Lizzie Marriott.

JMO

 

[OldSteve]

You said it well. Maybe Maura wasn't a victiim of a crime. We don't know, but it does happen and in all kinds of places. We hear of missing women all the time. Maura could have taken a chance and accepted a ride, because she was desperate. She didn't have to be abducted off the road for a crime to happen. Maybe the guy thought she was a male, but was pleasantly surprised she was not. His wheels start to turn. He had a few drinks. Maybe he was stoned too. He gets physical with her, but she rejects him. He gets angry and the rest is history. This scenario isn't something new. We've seen it before many times.

Like you, I believe a crime of opportunity was possible. There are weirdos everywhere and NH has their share of them. For example, the guy who killed Lizzie Marriott.

JMO

Agree! Considering most of the missing person cases I follow end with a crime taking place, I think that's what most likely happened here. The McStays were a shocker - after all the theories, turns out they were murdered.

 

[McSpy]

Agree! Considering most of the missing person cases I follow end with a crime taking place, I think that's what most likely happened here. The McStays were a shocker - after all the theories, turns out they were murdered.

All along, I had a feeling they were dead. It just didn't make sense that Joe McStay never contacted his mom. It seemed he was close to her or at least, had a good relationship with her. I think he would have contacted her and said he was okay. The fact he never contacted her made me feel they didn't flee the country to live and hide in Mexico or Costa Rica. I have the same feeling about Maura. I don't think she would live a hidden life and never contact a family member, but this is just my opinion.

 

[SmoothOperator]

A) There being NO foul play involved, but rather Maura, alone being the sole responsible party for her "disappearance"(be it that she went and committed suicide..or..be it that she went and created for herself a whole new life)

..OR..

B) There being foul play involved and that Maura met with foul play at some point AFTER her accident on Wild Ammonoosuc Rd.

I am completely understanding of the opinion that Maura is behind her "disappearance" and that its none other than Maura that is the only responsible party for her disappearing of her own free will(be it for the reason of going off to commit suicide..or..be it for the reason of going off to create a whole new life and existence for herself, with her solely of her own free will, living her life as she's wanted for the last decade).. I understand this opinion, as well as I understand the issues that some perceive to substantiate this as being what occurred(ie.the factors such as packing up her room, leaving the note, contacting school faculty, etc)

I agree that it is a viable possibility on the table given what FACTS we have, as, IMO, there is no FACT to indicate that this theory for certain did NOT occur.. Thus, as I said, still a viable possibility on the table given what is known as fact.

As most know my theory I find to be most likely is the "Maura met with foul play at some point AFTER her last car accident on Wild Ammonoosuc Rd., NH theory".. It too, IMO, is still a viable possibility on the table given what FACTS are known. And while it *may not* be perceived by some as having anything to substantiate it.. IMO the entire known dynamics of "crimes of opportunity" can be compared to Maura's case dynamics and match perfectly, fitting into the category of "crimes of opportunity"..

I do know the argument that in some opinions, it is literally a slim to nil chance that Maura Murray met with foul play after her car accident, and one of the main motivating factors repeatedly given is the indicators perceived as her planning, willfully, and intentionally to leave her entire life behind(again be it literally leaving it behind in committing suicide..or..be it more figuratively leaving it behind to create a whole new life for herself elsewhere)..IMO, this seems to be the biggest factors of which the strong opinion of Maura, and Maura alone being responsible for her "disappearance" are mainly based upon.jmo..

When looking at the dynamics of "crimes of opportunity" IMO, in many, many, many of those cases you can find these similar factors that, to some, are perceived as being very, very indicative of the missing person being the sole, responsible party for their "disappearance"(and the same with that meaning suicide, or in hiding for various reasons, or running from the law, or running/hiding from abusive persons or situations, or creating an entire new identity, etc, etc).. The list goes on and on of possibilities, but the most important point for this discussion being that the person is acting of their own free will(just as its believed, by some, that Maura Murray is solely responsible in her disappearance, and was of her own free will in whatever it is she decided to do from the point after the wreck on Wild Ammonoosuc Rd).

Many of these crimes of opportunities of which I speak in comparison to Maura's case dynamics would have perfectly fit into the category of they're being the only responsible party for their "disappearance".. And many, too who were unfortunate enough to have not have their remains located for some length of time(just like Maura) are believed to simply have disappeared by their own hand, rather than that of foul play... Yet, time and again sadly it is later discovered, at some point, that they had never left intentionally and of their own free will, but rather had indeed met with foul play, and had been deceased from nearly the onset of their being discovered/reported as "missing"..

Crimes of opportunity do not have this perfect, neat set of known criteria that when present are automatically "known" as crimes of opportunity.. IMO, its quite obvious why that is due to the fact that they are just exactly that, crimes that are based on a random opportunity that presented itself while crossing paths with an individual(s) who would take advantage of the opportunity when they found it presented to them.. I mean the cases are literally numbered in the hundredss upon thousands that are crimes that's main basis are due to an opportunity taken by an individual who seized an opportunity, acted on it, and committed a heinous crime on the victim presented to them by opportunity.. Hundreds upon thousands of cases, even more specifically murder cases are directly based in the fact of opportunity presenting itself, perp readily and intentionally takes immediate full advantage of the opportunity, in turn leading to many times very violent assaults and murders on the victim of opportunity..

And many, many of those victim's case dynamics being looked at from the POV as a missing persons case..many, many of them would have issue after issue that could similarly align with Maura's that, to some, are perceived as indicating NO foul play.

Take for instance the multitude of women who have engaged in behaviors commonly classified as risky(alcohol/drugs, any/all criminal activities from prostitution..to fraud..and anything in between).. This type of female turns up "missing" and to many when looking at the known factors of the case they would be of the opinion that this was not a case involving foul play, but rather a case where the "victim" is of her own free will in whatever/wherever she has chosen to "disappear" herself from(be it running from the law, running from abusive persons or situations, etc, etc).. Whatever the case it is the Missing Person, themselves who are solely responsible for their "disappearance"..

And yet how many hundreds upon hundreds of cases are found to have been in fact that the victim did in fact meet with foul play, and has been deceased all along??...

It is those exact same type dynamics that are present here in Maura's case that are perceived, by some, as being indicative of there being no "victim" of a crime, per se, but rather an individual of her own free will that led her to what/where she went after that car accident..and that she did NOT meet with foul play.

IMO, just as some repeatedly state there are so many indicators that align with this being a case of NO foul play, but rather a situation where Maura is solely responsible for her "disappearance"(be it suicide or starting a new life).. I say that there are cases upon cases upon cases numbering well into the hundreds that similarly align with Maura's that are very much found to have been crimes based upon opportunity, that very much directly led to her being a victim of foul play, and having been deceased from very, very early on(as in within hours or days from the time she "disappeared" off of that cold, dark, back road in NH immediately following her one car accident, again involving alcohol)..

As with everyone else's, in the end, these are nothing but MY OPINIONS ONLY, at this point in time, concerning what I see as most likely to have happened to Maura Murray a near, full decade ago..

 

[nevereverever]

SmoothOperator, I see what you're saying. I am pretty convinced that Maura's intent was to commit suicide in the mountains. That doesn't, in my mind, eliminate the possibility that she ended up being the victim of foul play. I think the odds point against it, but it is certainly within the realm of possibility. If she was intoxicated, and distraught, she could easily have made a risky decision that made her vulnerable to a predator in a moment of opportunity. So, for me, while I believe the most likely scenario is suicide, I don't know if I could ever be fully convinced of that until a body is found. Whatever happened, I just wish her loved ones could finally know, and have that closure, as much as anyone can have closure in a situation like this.

 

[jane_tennison]

How does a scent just disappear though? The dogs that were brought to the scene lost her scent after 100 yards.

 

[McSpy]

How does a scent just disappear though? The dogs that were brought to the scene lost her scent after 100 yards.

Good point. There was discussion on this a while back. Supposedly, the gloves the dog handlers used to track Maura were fairly new and Maura did not wear them often. Her dad thought her running clothes would have been a better choice as a scent to track. However, Maura's scent disappeared at a place where it was somewhat lighted, so someone could have seen her and asked her if she needed a lift. Also, the spot was on the corner of Bradley Hill Rd. Someone could have slowed down to make the turn and saw her coming up the road. So, I do think it was possible she accepted a lift and that could be why her scent dropped off at that point.

JMO

 

[Lolacat]

How does a scent just disappear though? The dogs that were brought to the scene lost her scent after 100 yards.

There is a whole explanation about this on James Renner's blog. If you search "dogs" on the blog, it all comes up. I would link it, but I dont know if we are allowed to link to other websites (?).
Basically, for various reasons, the dog search in this case wasnt very helpful.