NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #12

[Gene S.]

Its been awhile since ive been on this site and thread...I also followed Mr Renner's blog for a bit...I am playing catch up with posts but I wanted to put this down...Theres never been much said(or anything I recall) about the possibility of Maura being bulimic ...The stealing of credit card #s for, as far as anyone can tell, was for food........Bulimic and out of control would make perfect sense she would be desperate for more $$$$$$,like any addiction...Many bulimics have cross addictions, such as alcohol or drugs...It seems Maura liked to drink a lot.....The eating disorder alone could have caused her to have a couple of car accidents and put alcohol on top of that, along with any other stresses she was facing, then perhaps suicide WAS the intention when she headed to the mountains that nite...I just wonder if the angle of a possible eating disorder was considered as it might explain a lot of her behavior.....

I am still behind with post reading here and am only up to Jan of this year...So I apologize if this post breaks the pattern of what is currently being discussed, or if this subject has been discussed or dismissed or whatever else. Thanks!!

Eating disorders among girls who are distance runners aren't unusual: http://www.pale-reflections.com/news_view.asp?id=35

 

[hisjerseygirl]

This case is so captivating to me. I hope Maura is found someday. so her family and loved ones can know what happened to her and lay her to rest.

 

[snowleopard]

This is probably a case of seeing what you want to see, but I saw the story about the NC shark attacks and thought the young woman in the pink/black bikini attending to the injured girl looked like Maura. Only side and back shots though. She looks a bit too young and fit at this point, but she did seem to be attending to her the whole time she was on the beach (like a nurse?) in other photos.....http://abcnews.go.com/US/teens-mauled-separate-shark-attacks-north-carolina-beach/story?id=31762489

 

[nitsirk]

This is probably a case of seeing what you want to see, but I saw the story about the NC shark attacks and thought the young woman in the pink/black bikini attending to the injured girl looked like Maura. Only side and back shots though. She looks a bit too young and fit at this point, but she did seem to be attending to her the whole time she was on the beach (like a nurse?) in other photos.....http://abcnews.go.com/US/teens-mauled-separate-shark-attacks-north-carolina-beach/story?id=31762489

Good eye! How old would Maura be now?

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[nitsirk]

Good eye! How old would Maura be now?

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Answered my own question. I guess she would be 31/32? The bikini woman could be that age.

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[snowleopard]

Answered my own question. I guess she would be 31/32? The bikini woman could be that age.

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In the video there is an almost 45 deg. front shot, and, from that, I think the cheekbones are a little small. Still, even though I know the chances are very small, I couldn't get the idea of it being her out of my head.....

 

[trenchmouth]

I see the resemblance

 

[DayLea]

In the video this woman looks quite a bit darker than the other people around her, possibly Asian, JMO.

 

[Mr. Noatak]

My opinions only, no facts here:

I have posted extensively here about this case. Having said that, it does not prove that I know anything about the case; it only means that I have posted extensively! However, I place my faith in two fields of practice- deductive reasoning and unbiased research.

Let me start by proposing three possible end-situation scenarios for the Maura Murray mystery:

1) she disappeared voluntarily to another country after her accident on Wild Ammonoosuc Road.
2) she ran down the road and into the forest somewhere, and succumbed to exposure.
3) she was abducted where the (dog) scent trail ended, at the junction of Wild Ammonoosuc and Bradley Hill Roads.

Regarding Scenario #1, I feel that if Maura had fled to say- Canada or Ireland, we would know about it by now. Or at least her parents would. Maura’s father has put very great and sincere efforts into finding his daughter, to this day. In my judgment, Maura’s parents do not know where she is. In addition, Maura’s supposed previous crimes (credit card fraud, etc.) were so trivial that they would have been misdemeanors at worst (the hit-and-run theory is completely unproven). But, people have committed suicide before, because of trivial failures. See Scenario #2, below.

Regarding Scenario #2, I say this without any finding of fault, but there are notable past cases where authorities failed to find a body hidden in plain sight for years and years. It IS possible that Maura is a close distance from Route 112, but miles further east along Wild Ammonoosuc Road from where her accident occurred. She could have run into some random location in the woods and purposefully succumbed to exposure, or even fallen into Ammonoosuc River. This waterway is a trickle by comparison with large rivers, so I judge that even if Maura ended up in this river, she should have been found in a few days.

Regarding Scenario #3, Maura may have been picked up by a “helpful” predator at the junction of Wild Ammonoosuc and Bradley Hill Roads and taken a short distance ESE up Bradley Hill Road. Just a coincidence? Bad luck? Maybe. However, I favor this scenario. Not because it is the correct one, but because it explains why her family honestly does not know where she is AND why Maura Murray has not yet been found at the surface or in a waterway along Route 112.

Nothing has yet occurred to significantly change my opinions since I posted the following on this Websleuths thread on Dec. 25, 2011- [“I would look for someone who was in their 20's to early 30's at the time of the crime, living off and on in the Jaffrey area, and with a prior criminal record that included violence towards women. I would consider the possibility of a link between the Brianna Maitland and Maura Murray disappearances. Because it was winter and the ground was somewhat frozen in both of these cases, I would look for victims in a well, old mine shaft or cave, or under the floor of a barn. The person who grabbed Maura (and possibly Brianna) has likely performed similar actions before and since. One way to break this case would be to examine any 'failed abductions' in the region from the late 1990's to after 2004 and see if witnesses provided sketches of a suspect. If more than one such incidence is uncovered, compare the suspect sketches.”]

Selected updates since my Christmas, 2011 post: when looking for the abductor, also consider that he could have attempted similar crimes just north of the border, in Canada. The abductor probably has served modest jail and prison time. Also, I now acknowledge the victim(s) could be shallowly buried at the edge of a developed property or at the end of a rural road. If Maura was abducted, I believe her remains are within a mile or so from where she disappeared. Brianna, on the other hand, could be many tens of miles east from where her car was found; I would guess at the end of a rural road.

Maura Murray disappeared on Feb. 9, 2004, aged 21 years. Brianna Maitland disappeared on March 19, 2004, aged 17 years (but she looked several years older than her actual age). The distance between the two possible abduction sites is less than 100 miles. Both women had dark hair and noticeably-prominent cheekbones. In both cases the victim’s vehicle was found barely off of the road in an ‘accident-type’ of situation.

I personally believe that the Connecticut River Valley Killer was too old by 2004 to be involved with the Maura Murray or Brianna Maitland disappearances. BUT, the perpetrator in the Maura Murray case (and maybe the Brianna Maitland case), could have drawn inspiration from the Connecticut River Valley Killer’s adventures, in ways yet to be comprehended.

Well, I hope that this gives readers here some things to think about and will help to rejuvenate posting on this Websleuths’ thread about this fascinating mystery.

Everything above represents my opinions only.

Sleuth On!

 

[armywife210]

I completely agree that the Brianna Maitland case is related. I think the many similarities are impossible to dismiss, and the timing is very unsettling. I know the police think they have a different angle in Brianna's case but imo they need to be open minded about this and look at the glaringly obvious similarities.


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[Mr. Noatak]

Go the distance armywife210, my friend. You are one "who can see".

 

[armywife210]

Go the distance armywife210, my friend. You are one "who can see".

Lol. I'm not sure if you're making fun of me or not. But I'll go with it. I've studied this case closely since it happened...well since a couple of months after it happened. I had regular contact with the family for quite awhile. I have West Point contacts who knew her and Billy (my husband is also a WP grad). I haven't been posting much lately because the discussion has gotten so off track. A lot of info that is thrown as fact about her life at West Point I have been completely unable to verify through my many sources. I would like to know how someone was able to verify these things. She's a thief, she was kicked out of West Point for it, she was loose and went to sex parties, she cheated on Billy, she was a drunk, she was a bullemic, her dad is a child *advertiser censored* enthusiast, etc. Good Lord I have not been able to verify through any official channels that any of this was true of her. I don't think she ran away, I don't think she killed herself, I think she got into the wrong car at some point. It seems to me that it's become a smear campaign when it should be about finding a missing young woman.


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[Mr. Noatak]

Lol. I'm not sure if you're making fun of me or not. But I'll go with it. I've studied this case closely since it happened...well since a couple of months after it happened. I had regular contact with the family for quite awhile. I have West Point contacts who knew her and Billy (my husband is also a WP grad). I haven't been posting much lately because the discussion has gotten so off track. A lot of info that is thrown as fact about her life at West Point I have been completely unable to verify through my many sources. I would like to know how someone was able to verify these things. She's a thief, she was kicked out of West Point for it, she was loose and went to sex parties, she cheated on Billy, she was a drunk, she was a bullemic, her dad is a child *advertiser censored* enthusiast, etc. Good Lord I have not been able to verify through any official channels that any of this was true of her. I don't think she ran away, I don't think she killed herself, I think she got into the wrong car at some point. It seems to me that it's become a smear campaign when it should be about finding a missing young woman.


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My opinions only no facts here:

I am with you about this. When I say the line “one who can see”, that is my highest form of compliment, which I very rarely use. This line was originally coined as "we have one who can see" in the wonderfully irreverent Sci-Fi movie, “They Live”.

As you indicate with your post, there is a lot of “white noise” about Maura’s life. White noise obfuscates the foundation aspect of the case: she could have been abducted at the intersection of Wild Ammonoosuc and Bradley Hill Roads by someone she did not know. Even though Maura may have been depressed around that time and consequently taking a ‘road trip’ to ‘tune out’ for a little while; these details only serve to explain why she was in that place at that time. I have always focused on what happened after Maura left her wrecked vehicle and walked 100 yards further down the road.

 

[Fireweed]

Lol. I'm not sure if you're making fun of me or not. But I'll go with it. I've studied this case closely since it happened...well since a couple of months after it happened. I had regular contact with the family for quite awhile. I have West Point contacts who knew her and Billy (my husband is also a WP grad). I haven't been posting much lately because the discussion has gotten so off track. A lot of info that is thrown as fact about her life at West Point I have been completely unable to verify through my many sources. I would like to know how someone was able to verify these things. She's a thief, she was kicked out of West Point for it, she was loose and went to sex parties, she cheated on Billy, she was a drunk, she was a bullemic, her dad is a child *advertiser censored* enthusiast, etc. Good Lord I have not been able to verify through any official channels that any of this was true of her. I don't think she ran away, I don't think she killed herself, I think she got into the wrong car at some point. It seems to me that it's become a smear campaign when it should be about finding a missing young woman.


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Well there are a few things going on here. One of them is that we get a lot of our information from Renner's site, and due to the economics of boosting book sales, he has not yet revealed many of his sources. Since he announced that the book is going to be about his life as a true crime addict, I now highly doubt if he really dug anything up of any real substance. At any rate, I am not ready to entirely discount the "facts" he has dug up until I can read the book for myself and judge whether the sources seem credible.

But I will say this: this thread and Renner's website have been up for years. Maura's family and friends can, at any time, come forward and clarify much of the "white noise" out there about Maura. Now I know what the quintessential reaction is going to be. People will come here and tell me that the family owes us nothing and that they do not have to do that, and that is 100% correct. However, they are ostensibly desperately searching for Maura, and as we have seen in real life, it is completely within the realm of possibility that Maura is currently being held captive right now. I suppose that the family does not have to clear any of this up, but if none of it is true, then for Maura's sake they absolutely should. One of the main reasons I am still completely willing to believe that Maura ran away and started a new life is because of what was going on in her personal life. If none of it is true, then her family and friends should clear that up and put the focus back on "creeps" in the north country.

BTW, I know that no one has publicly confirmed much of this stuff, but on the flip side no one has denied it either. Billy's mom knew which calling cards Maura did and did not own, so surely she knows why Maura left West Point. Why not just come out and say that she left because she wanted to and that it had nothing to do with Maura's bad behavior? The fact that no one close to Maura can bring themselves to expressly deny this, is why I completely believe it. Maura was kicked out of West Point because she did something "bad".

 

[Lolacat]

Lol. I'm not sure if you're making fun of me or not. But I'll go with it. I've studied this case closely since it happened...well since a couple of months after it happened. I had regular contact with the family for quite awhile. I have West Point contacts who knew her and Billy (my husband is also a WP grad). I haven't been posting much lately because the discussion has gotten so off track. A lot of info that is thrown as fact about her life at West Point I have been completely unable to verify through my many sources. I would like to know how someone was able to verify these things. She's a thief, she was kicked out of West Point for it, she was loose and went to sex parties, she cheated on Billy, she was a drunk, she was a bullemic, her dad is a child *advertiser censored* enthusiast, etc. Good Lord I have not been able to verify through any official channels that any of this was true of her. I don't think she ran away, I don't think she killed herself, I think she got into the wrong car at some point. It seems to me that it's become a smear campaign when it should be about finding a missing young woman.


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EVEN if you disregard every rumour, hearsay and opinion of everyone close to Maura and look purely at the FACTS alone. The facts are: Maura had 2 car accidents within the space of 2 days with evidence to suggest she had been drinking whilst at the wheel. She lied about there being a death in the family in order to leave campus right at the very beginning of term which would mean missing important clinicals. No matter which way you look at this- you cannot deny that these are the actions of someone who is rather troubled.

 

[BillNH]

Quite honestly, with the very few facts that we know to be true, anyone who regards all the things that have come out about Maura since her disappearance as "white noise" clearly cannot, and will not, see. We cannot say if any or all of is true, but we certainly cant discount all of it as immaterial. We KNOW she got nipped for CC fraud and I would bet that any one of her family members at the time would have said, "oh no, Maura would never to that...". Well she did it, and I would bet that she did at least some of the other things. You know the saying, "where there is smoke, there's fire". Maura definitely sported a haze about her and it cannot be discounted, no matter how much some want to ignore it. If you really want the truth you have to see all facets of Maura's life, not just the ones you arbitrarily choose to consider.

 

[Fireweed]

Quite honestly, with the very few facts that we know to be true, anyone who regards all the things that have come out about Maura since her disappearance as "white noise" clearly cannot, and will not, see. We cannot say if any or all of is true, but we certainly cant discount all of it as immaterial. We KNOW she got nipped for CC fraud and I would bet that any one of her family members at the time would have said, "oh no, Maura would never to that...". Well she did it, and I would bet that she did at least some of the other things. You know the saying, "where there is smoke, there's fire". Maura definitely sported a haze about her and it cannot be discounted, no matter how much some want to ignore it. If you really want the truth you have to see all facets of Maura's life, not just the ones you arbitrarily choose to consider.

I agree that much of what has been said about Maura is not white noise - it does fit in with much of what we know about Maura. Let's take the West Point "rumor" as an example. Armywife contends that we have no proof this is true, and she is right - we don't have proof. We will never have proof because West Point won't release those records, and that would be the only way to get real proof. What we have are a couple of sources who say that Maura was kicked out because of a serious honor code violation, and that it was theft. Well okay. Just taken on its own I would call this "just a rumor" and though I would not dismiss it outright, I would certainly take it with a grain of salt. But...here is the problem, and this is one part of logical reasoning where many people get tripped up. We have a lot of definite facts about Maura that would make me tend to believe the West Point story. We know that after she left West Point she engaged in thievery. At least as far as Maura's character went, she did not have the character of someone who would never steal. She also stole from someone who lived in her same dorm, and had the pizzas delivered to her dorm room. I mean not only does she steal, but she also is not at all cautious about getting caught. So we know something about the kind of person Maura was: she stole and she was sloppy about it. That does not mean she was a bad person, and indeed I see this is more the work of someone who was going through some emotionally difficult times, but it is something we know about her that is completely true.

Then we must consider that no one in Maura's family has denied the rumor of why she was kicked out of West Point. Here is a family who was desperate to have her portrayed as the "All American Girl" who now won't deny this. What do they do? They say that people on the internet are mean. This is the classic way to avoid telling a direct lie. Again, at any time Fred or one of the sisters could start a blog or post here or write a letter to the Boston Globe and clear up all this "white noise" surrounding Maura's case, but they refuse to do so.

As to the bulimia and alcoholism that too is just rumor I suppose. All I can say to that is that as a woman Maura's age who had bulimia and alcoholism when I was her age, I feel very comfortable suspecting that about her. I can go into the details if anyone wants to PM me, but I will just say that much of what we know about Maura's actions and life sent up a lot of red flags for me. BTW, as someone who suffered from these diseases, I personally cannot figure out what is so offensive about speculating when we have evidence pointing to it. Sometimes people are sick and that does not make them bad people.

 

[Mr. Noatak]

My opinions only, no facts here:

Just for the record, I am not stating that Maura was abducted; it is only my personal theory that she was abducted.

There are too many analogous cases to cite, but think about Michelle Knight who disappeared on August 23, 2002. Prior to her disappearance, she had dropped out of high school to have a baby. This child (a boy) was eventually taken from her and placed in foster care. On the day of her disappearance, she was due in court for a custody hearing about her son. Almost everybody concluded that Michelle, distraught about losing her son and facing many negative turns in her life, had run away or whatever. HOWEVER, she had simply been abducted by Ariel Castro and held captive for +ten years (along with two other females, abducted later). Even the FBI removed Michelle Knight’s name from their missing persons list after a year. Think about it- everything that happened up to the point of Michelle Knight’s abduction was “white noise”.

For the sake of argument, let us also pretend that Maura was the victim of a crime near-to where she slid off the road. I am aware of all the intimations about Maura, before she disappeared. The West Point failure, the pizza incident, drinking, and the wrecked car at college are interesting possible tidbits, but I will bet you that these factors in no way serve to identify the name of an abductor. Thus, IF Maura was abducted, everything before that abduction becomes “white noise”, just like Michelle Knight.

 

[BillNH]

My opinions only, no facts here:

Just for the record, I am not stating that Maura was abducted; it is only my personal theory that she was abducted.

There are too many analogous cases to cite, but think about Michelle Knight who disappeared on August 23, 2002. Prior to her disappearance, she had dropped out of high school to have a baby. This child (a boy) was eventually taken from her and placed in foster care. On the day of her disappearance, she was due in court for a custody hearing about her son. Almost everybody concluded that Michelle, distraught about losing her son and facing many negative turns in her life, had run away or whatever. HOWEVER, she had simply been abducted by Ariel Castro and held captive for +ten years (along with two other females, abducted later). Even the FBI removed Michelle Knight’s name from their missing persons list after a year. Think about it- everything that happened up to the point of Michelle Knight’s abduction was “white noise”.

For the sake of argument, let us also pretend that Maura was the victim of a crime near-to where she slid off the road. I am aware of all the intimations about Maura, before she disappeared. The West Point failure, the pizza incident, drinking, and the wrecked car at college are interesting possible tidbits, but I will bet you that these factors in no way serve to identify the name of an abductor. Thus, IF Maura was abducted, everything before that abduction becomes “white noise”, just like Michelle Knight.

It can only be labeled "white noise" when it is determined to be "white noise". Even in the case you cited, it was not, and could not have been, "white noise" until the truth was discovered. To call anything in Maura's disappearance "white noise" at this stage is ignoring a very large part of what could have led to her disappearance. You are starting in with a preconceived idea of what happened to her and ignoring the things that don't fit or you that don't wish to acknowledge. It may very well turn out to be true, but until then the information is as valid as her name and SS#.

 

[JamesRenner]

I live in Cleveland. As a journalist, I covered the Amanda Berry/Gine DeJesus cases. I know Ariel Castro inside and out. You talk about Michelle Knight as if it's in the same ballpark as Maura Murray. It's this kind of short-sightedness that confuses details in this case. You simply don't know what you're talking about.

Ariel Castro was an organized human predator. Like a lion on the steppe, he was familiar with his hunting grounds. He was comfortable with his surroundings. He knew the comings and goings of Cleveland police. And when he found his prey, he made sure they were slight of build and that they could be manipulated into coming with him first by charm, and then by force.

The site where Maura Murray disappeared is not a place a predator would attempt an abduction. It is in view of three homes. Maura Murray was not the sort who would easily be taken, either. She was smart. And more, she was a trained cadet, with skills in defense. She was also a cunning con artist in her own right. She would not have gone peacefully. And she would not have accepted a ride -- she'd already turned one down minutes earlier. The only way she could have been taken would be by force and that would have taken time and it would have been loud. And yet nobody saw it happen. Nobody heard it happen.

And she was alone on the side of that road for 5 minutes. On a night when the average number of vehicles driving by at that hour is 7. The odds that a serial killer would cross her path right then, and against all odds, take her without a sound, without beings spotted, are beyond statistics.

Maura Murray was not abducted. Her case is in no way similar to Michelle Knight.