NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #12

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The box of Franzia wine was still in the car, it had exploded open and spilled out.

A soda bottle was found under Maura's car that the officer described as having a pink to reddish liquid and smell of alcohol.

A receipt was found in the car for alcohol and that included vodka and Kahlua. Those were not found with the car.

A six pack of seagrams supposedly had also been purchased, but good luck finding an answer on what was with the car still after the accident.

One reporter also mentioned Bailey's Irish Cream as well, but no clue on whether or not that was purchased or whether or not that was found in the car.

I believe Renner was mistaken.

The lead investigator (in an interview with Renner) actually stated that there were bottles of alcohol missing from the receipt that were not in the car.

Renner talked to a cop (not assigned to the case) who was looking up information about the case and told Renner that all alcohol was accounted for.

But that doesn't mean they scooped up a bunch of bottles of alcohol and stuck them in an evidence file somewhere. It likely means that they have the receipt and have it reported exactly how much alcohol that Maura is believed to have bought that day -- therefore making it all accounted for.

Just to clarify, you are saying the several bottles of alcohol Maura bought in MA (Vodka, Kahlua etc) were NOT in the car? I'm assuming the big deal here is the receipt indicating she bought them just hours earlier, right?

And I'm guessing the strong alcohol odor here might be a result of the boxed wine + vodka?
 
Maura sent the death in the family email to both her professors and her work supervisors.
 
Just to clarify, you are saying the several bottles of alcohol Maura bought in MA (Vodka, Kahlua etc) were NOT in the car? I'm assuming the big deal here is the receipt indicating she bought them just hours earlier, right?

And I'm guessing the strong alcohol odor here might be a result of the boxed wine + vodka?


Lt. Scarinza (Retired former lead investigator into Maura's disappearance) speaking in an interview with James Renner:

"She had purchased Kahlua, wine, and a six pack of Seagrams. The box had splashed all over the car. The bottle of kahlua was not there."

Other media reports mention vodka being purchased as well and even Bailey's Irish Cream. it was around $40 worth of alcohol purchased on the receipt they found in her car.
 
Maura sent the death in the family email to both her professors and her work supervisors.
Do we have a source for that? I thought it was sent only to her academic higher ups. But, again, I might be remembering incorrectly.
 
The presence of alcohol in the car, or lack thereof, is a big point, for me at least.

Granted if these indeed are items she bought hours earlier, the absence of the bottles tells a few important things.

Bottles of Kahlua, Bailey's, vodka, 6 pack of Seagrams etc are some decent weight in a backpack. Not something I'd voluntarily want to carry in those circumstances.

But with the idea of a second car, why not take it? Loading it into a second car gives the impression she was comfortable with this person maybe.

Lots of conclusions to draw here.
 
So many things pertaining to this case are head scratchers. In the Renner interview with Karen Mayotte, she goes on to tell him that the police never once spoke to her about Maura. Wouldn't you think they'd want to talk to one of the last people to see her alive, and one that saw a missing person in a state of distress just days before? No dialogue at all? Really?

Also, most reports mention that there were videos of Maura at the ATM and the liquor store. Her father has consistently pleaded for the authorities to "release the files!", but never literally said "let me see the videos!". Logically it would mean that the police allowed him to see the videos to ensure it was Maura; I find it interesting
that he's never once commented on the content of the videos. The videos have never been released to the public despite 11 years having gone by since Maura went missing. I realize that the prevailing wisdom is that the release of the videos might compromise the investigation, but after 11 years isn't it time to get this information out there to see what might materialize? It's been 11 years!
 
The presence of alcohol in the car, or lack thereof, is a big point, for me at least.

Granted if these indeed are items she bought hours earlier, the absence of the bottles tells a few important things.

Bottles of Kahlua, Bailey's, vodka, 6 pack of Seagrams etc are some decent weight in a backpack. Not something I'd voluntarily want to carry in those circumstances.

But with the idea of a second car, why not take it? Loading it into a second car gives the impression she was comfortable with this person maybe.

Lots of conclusions to draw here.

First off with the seagrams for instance, reports have always varied on this and accounts by family members/spokespeople have always talked about bottles being found in the car (in different places).

Who knows for sure on the seagrams and the Bailey's because very few reports you'll find even mention those. Most mention that Maura had a bottle of Kahlua and a bottle of Vodka and that would be what I would assume was missing from the car.

The idea of a second car doesn't make much sense to me.

If we are talking about someone Maura knew and was comfortable with, then I would think Maura would've taken her clothes and valuables with her as well as the alcohol, not just the booze.

Taking off with nothing else but a backpack full of booze in the middle of the forest doesn't sound good to me, especially if that someone is having some tough times, like two car accidents in the span of 48 hours and plenty of drinking
 
I really think at this point the files should be released at least to Fred Murray... or even publicly with redactions as needed.... I really want to know if this was a botched investigation from the get-go or does no one on earth really know what happened to her?
 
I think the police won't release them for a few reason. It's an "active" investigation and they are quick to point that out. Overall, a release would probably lead to more criticism of how they handled it. Of course there's Fred, too. Given their history they feel he'd likely compromise the investigation in someway.

Going back to the alcohol, the only reasoning I can really see for it's removal is further trying to conceal a possible DUI in haste. But even so, that would mean forgetting about the Franzia in the back seat.
 
Scoops, that was a interesting tidbit about Sharon's journal. I have been following this case for a few years and I think that was the first time I ever heard about that. Unfortunately for me, I started following this case after the family took down their forum. Do you have anything else that you can share from that time period?
I always thought that maybe some of this information that is out there, and not correct, was in fact corrected by the family early on and I just missed it. I know Fred takes a lot of heat and maybe rightly so for what he is selling. But I can't help but wonder where Billy is in all of this. After all, according to Sharon, they where in love and getting married. I understand he was in the military at the time and could only do so much. But come on, if you where in love with someone that disappeared wouldn't you be following this case? As far as I can tell Billy has never said a word about her in public. Except maybe thru his mother. And if what you stated is correct, then what can we really trust coming from Sharon? If that is what Sharon is selling then it is obvious that she is spinning a narrative to protect her son. Billy could single handedly corroborate Fred's tale or blow it out of the water. Did Sharon ever back up Fred's account of the Geo prism? Wouldn't Billy be in the know about them looking for a car?
The phone call Friday morning is troubling because I think is was Billy that upset Maura. If it was in fact Maura hitting Vasi, than I would expect her to call Billy and not her father. But according to her phone records, that is not what she does. Her next phone call placed was evidently for pizza!
I think people do things for a reason. Even though the reason may not be clear to an observer. You can piece things together by knowing what events take place and what peoples reactions are to them.
I will give you one example. We know by the phone records (and by Fred's account) that Fred calls Maura late Sunday night. We only have the story that Fred is telling. And I think some of it is true. They did talk about the car insurance papers. But I am sure that is not the only thing. What does Maura do after hanging up with Fred? According to computer records, she almost immediately starts looking for places to go. Why?
I think you are right on the money Scoops about Fred's initial reaction to hearing the news. He had a guilty conscience about the last time he talked with Maura. His reaction was that she was going to harm herself. Why would he think that? Because he knows what was said between them and it might not have been good.

Billy did a lot of public interviews. I've seen them. He didn't do all of them, but he did do quite a few. What you have to understand is that every time there is an interview set up, no matter how important it is, an Army Officer cannot always just drop his weapon and leave. If he were deployed at the time, no way. But even if he weren't deployed, there are times when an Officer just can't leave. They have a job to do and they took oath to do that job. Soldiers are different from other people, especially Officers. They are wired differently and they have to be. If they aren't hard wired before West Point, they certainly are after. And once they've seen combat their whole demeanor changes. They don't stop caring, but they stand strong on Duty, Honor, Country.


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No.

As I am trying to recall, there was a search done within days of the accident, but that involved a scent-trail dog and not a cadaver dog. And because of the location, time of the year and cross-winds, the investigators knew going in to the dog's search, that it was only going to be able to track for 100-yards or so before it would lose any scent it picked up, no matter which direction the dog went. the dog did pick up a scent right from where Maura's car ended up and the dog headed east before abruptly stopping at the intersection of Rt. 112 and Bradley Hill Rd., almost precisely where the investigators thought the dog would become confused/ lose scent.

Almost three years later in October of 2006, another search with dogs took place around the accident scene. This search did not involve police.

It was a group of volunteers helping Fred and his family.

They brought out four dogs that were trained to find human remains.

They covered a five-mile radius around the accident location, but were limited to searching on public property and the dogs eventually turned up nothing.

In addition to this, in 2007, a group also searched the Construction Worker's (the guy who saw a person several miles further east on 112 that night but didn't report it for a few months) property on the corner of Bradley Hill Road and 112. It was searched on 3 different occasions over a the course of a couple months, with cadaver dogs on one occasion. They searched inside the home that was at the time of Maura's disappearance was under construction. They searched the attic and crawl spaces in the home and all the outbuildings and around the entire property. The new owners allowed this search when they were approached after they had bought the property. I know them personally so there is no public verification of this. They had posted that there was a search briefly on the MM Facebook page, then removed it when I explained to them about the high level of interest in this case as they do not wish to be bothered by anyone. I did get the details from them later on. They were told that the searchers found nothing of interest and they would not be back again.
 
I always fight with myself about bringing this up because it's troubling and there is no evidence.

Sometimes incest goes on for years and even into young adulthood. Has it even been considered? That controlling way that Fred has exhibited has troubled me always and something went on between Maura, her friend and her Father that night. That she insisted on going to his hotel. Then she left to go north.

Why, if you were buying a car, go to several ATM's to withdraw cash? Go to the bank. Why cash to buy a car? Write a check. The only reason is to avoid a paper trail - like getting some body work done you don't want anyone to know about, or getting an abortion you want to keep secret.

Sorry for this because I hate this kind of speculation based on no facts. It's not my style.

But Fred raised all kinds of questions because of his demeanor. If my daughter went missing there and I knew she was a drinker that last thing in my mind would be that she would be found naked on the mountain. I understand about paradoxical undressing regarding hypothermia, but I would not blurt it out. My mind would not allow it.


MOO
 
In addition to this, in 2007, a group also searched the Construction Worker's (the guy who saw a person several miles further east on 112 that night but didn't report it for a few months) property on the corner of Bradley Hill Road and 112. It was searched on 3 different occasions over a the course of a couple months, with cadaver dogs on one occasion. They searched inside the home that was at the time of Maura's disappearance was under construction. They searched the attic and crawl spaces in the home and all the outbuildings and around the entire property. The new owners allowed this search when they were approached after they had bought the property. I know them personally so there is no public verification of this. They had posted that there was a search briefly on the MM Facebook page, then removed it when I explained to them about the high level of interest in this case as they do not wish to be bothered by anyone. I did get the details from them later on. They were told that the searchers found nothing of interest and they would not be back again.

Did police initially come into contact with him because of his statement 3 months later or did they first approach him and got this statement?

It would be awfully strange to go to police with a lead if he was involved, even if it was for the sake of confusing them with a false lead.

I know many of you out there are locals to this area...Can anyone elaborate if there was much talk about these people as suspects? Obviously Atwood, Forcier, the red truck, brothers who made snow at Loon...lots of names thrown around. Did anyone locally seem to think there was a viable suspect at ANY point?
 
I always fight with myself about bringing this up because it's troubling and there is no evidence.

Sometimes incest goes on for years and even into young adulthood. Has it even been considered? That controlling way that Fred has exhibited has troubled me always and something went on between Maura, her friend and her Father that night. That she insisted on going to his hotel. Then she left to go north.

Why, if you were buying a car, go to several ATM's to withdraw cash? Go to the bank. Why cash to buy a car? Write a check. The only reason is to avoid a paper trail - like getting some body work done you don't want anyone to know about, or getting an abortion you want to keep secret.

Sorry for this because I hate this kind of speculation based on no facts. It's not my style.

But Fred raised all kinds of questions because of his demeanor. If my daughter went missing there and I knew she was a drinker that last thing in my mind would be that she would be found naked on the mountain. I understand about paradoxical undressing regarding hypothermia, but I would not blurt it out. My mind would not allow it.


MOO

Yes, this theory is heavily considered elsewhere on the internet. I believe the reason it does not get brought up here at Websleuths is that Fred Murray has not been named a POI and therefore, being a family member of the missing, is considered a victim as well.
 
Armywife210,
I am not attacking you, but you say that Billy gave a lot of interviews. Really? Maybe you can share where you saw them and fill me in. I would like to see or read them. I have been following this case for quite a few years. As many before me have, I read all I could about it. I have read the newspaper articles, watched the shows, I have sifted through many forums and blogs along the way. (With the exception that I noted about the first family run forum). Not once has there been a mention of Billy giving an interview. He was there for the search within a day or two. There are plenty of newspaper articles with other family members giving quotes or talking with the media. Not one that I know about with Billy doing the talking. Sharon was quoted a few times of course. Maybe Billy was too upset to do it. The police gave him a good grilling when he arrived for the search. That interview has, and I am sure will never be, made public. Fred takes a lot of flak for what he says, but you know what, he is out there. And he has been out there since day one as I would expect a father to do. Yes, Billy was in the military at the time. I understand that he couldn't drop his gun as you say and go do an interview. (And I wasn't expecting a Barbara Walters interview by the way.) When exactly did they film the 20/20 and the Disappeared episodes? Maybe you can correct me if I am wrong. But when did Billy get out of the military? Was he not available to do those shows? Was he not asked? Did he just move on with his life? He has that right of course. And I am not condemning him for that. What could it hurt at this point (or with in the last eleven years) for him to come out and talk about it? I don't think he had anything to do with Maura's disappearance that night. But I do think he could go along way in to clearing up what was going on with her in the time before she went missing. He certainly knows if Fred is telling the truth or not. Did he come out at any time and back up Fred's account that they (Maura and Fred) where looking for a car on Saturday? If he would have done that at the beginning, would we still be questioning Fred's account? Kind of threw Fred under the bus there by not doing that, no? Maura did call him after she wrecked her fathers car, what is his account of that call? He was allowed to enter Maura's dorm room to have a look around. Much has been made about the old email (or note as some have said) left out to be found. Where was this email found? Was her room really packed up and on her bed or just left unpacked? Those are simple questions that could easily be answered by him. No need to ask Fred's or anyone else's permission to answer that.

The problem with this case, other then Maura being missing, is the fact that the same questions are constantly being asked with no resolution. I was once new to this case too, so I understand an influx of the same questions are going to happen from people just getting up to speed. But many of the people reading this have been following this case longer then me. Are we not trying to find out what happened to Maura? It is like playing a song over and over and expect different words to magically come out at some point. People can say what they want about James Renner but there is no doubt that he has spurred this case forward in the public view. I hope his book sheds some more light on this case. I have or had hopes about the ongoing podcasts and documentary. However unless they come up with something new, they are just rehashing the same old info that is out there already. I hate to jump on them, but they go on about the "arm chair detective" spreading misinformation. Then do the exact same thing. Maybe this happened, maybe that happened. Not exactly what I would expect from documentary film makers. I would be more impressed if they would just confirm some of the facts. I don't mind if they want to use deductive reasoning to come up with some conclusions. They are trying, and it is more then I am doing. So good for them. But again is this all not to find out what happened to Maura? Who cares who finds the resolve in this case as long as we find Maura or what happened to her? Other then finding her, there is no prize to be won here.
After you really get into this case, you can't help but wonder why some of these questions are still an issue. You can talk all you like about the missing alcohol and weather or not she might have been involved in the Vasi incident. Or if a phone call on Friday morning is what upset her. Those are all good questions that have been asked many times with no conclusion.

I have some questions that I have come up with that maybe someone out there can answer.
I want to know what the private detectives that first started looking into this case conclusions where.
I want to know what her backpack looked like and how big it was.
I want to know who was at the scene that night and what they did.
I want to know, as it has been reported, that Butch and the officer at the scene drove around that night looking for her. Why in the heck did they not go east? Fred has made the point that had they searched east that night they would have found her. Maybe they did, but who knows as I don't recall anyone ever following up on that point. I know the family had similar questions at the start.
As Scoops has recently mentioned, Sharon apparently kept a diary of the events. It would be interesting to see what her thoughts where and what they found out. I know this is rear view thinking, but it sure would have been nice if someone would have thought about getting a camcorder to tape what happened and what they saw at the time. A video camera doesn't lie and you never know what could be important later down the road. Oh well.
I have always assumed that LE has kept the video of Maura at the ATM under wraps because they needed it to confirm any later sightings of her by what she was wearing that day.
It was mentioned at one point that when they where doing the TV shows, that some of the footage and interviews where edited out. It would have been interesting to see what didn't make it into the show.

I have come to the conclusion that the family for the most part has their resolution because they have a better grasp of the facts in this case. I read a post once from one of the investigating detectives that made a lot of sense. When looking at this case, you can start in Amherst or you can start at the accident scene. Many people, including me, have tried for years to figure out what happened in the days before Maura disappeared. If only to figure out what Maura was thinking, where she was going and what her plans where. The family simply doesn't need to start in Amherst, as they already know what happened there. They probably know what upset Maura, what she was doing and where she was going. Fred has in a some what round about way said as much. What happened to her along the way is the unknown. Then why not come out and dispel the misinformation that is out there? I am assuming here, but I think that the family can't seam to fathom why anyone else outside of them would care enough about Maura to follow this case. Do they want her found, of course they do. Just not enough to put out the fire of mystery regarding what happen to Maura prior to the accident Monday night. Again assuming, but that information to them is simply not relevant to finding Maura. I am afraid that those answers may never be known. Which I think is a shame, because if they where we could all move on and spend some resources actually looking for her.

Sorry about the long post and rant, by the way.
 
Yes, this theory is heavily considered elsewhere on the internet. I believe the reason it does not get brought up here at Websleuths is that Fred Murray has not been named a POI and therefore, being a family member of the missing, is considered a victim as well.

Yes, you are correct. The entire family are victims and that is why we don't point fingers here, but Fred has been vilified in so many ways on this thread even though he is technically considered a victim. He has presented much reason for that kind of speculation. I did not know that this subject has been approached on the webz because I do not follow the gossip. I hate it. I don't know if JR has addressed this in the blog but I will go and look back.

I read recently about a young woman who sued her Dad but I am sorry I can't find the link right now.

But I can get on board with her purposely leaving and even having her friends help her get out of there. But I am of 2 camps. If she even tried to walk into the mountain to get up there in the snow, got a ride, got dropped off and tried to take a trail that few people know about there would be 3 feet of snow to trudge through. I have tried to walk through snow. Without snow shoes or skiis is it impossible. we have no idea what equipment or provisions she had, but if she were not equipped she would not be far from the road. She knew better than that even if she were drunk.

That is not what happened, IMO.


MOO
 
I just want to relay a fact I think a lot of people forget.

Many people say "What are the chances that Maura just happened to run into a 'predator' that night?" After all, the vast, vast majority of people who crash their cars or behave in unexpected ways don't run into bad people, so what are the chances that she did?

To people that dismiss the predator idea because of this, I want to point out: she went missing.

We must not look at this under the lens of "abduction happens to so few people it clearly didn't happen here". She's gone. She's missing. Something happened. Even if that ramps up the chance of abduction from one in a million to one in a hundred, that's a big, big jump, and very different from 'it happens to so few people we can just dismiss it'.

I'm speaking as someone who thinks she died of exposure after overestimating her own abilities, btw. But if I found out she was abducted, I would be mildly suprised rather than gobsmacked.
 
Just to interject here, in my dealings with people and perps, the guy running his mouth is the guy you want to look at.


MOO
 
We must not look at this under the lens of "abduction happens to so few people it clearly didn't happen here". She's gone. She's missing. Something happened. Even if that ramps up the chance of abduction from one in a million to one in a hundred, that's a big, big jump, and very different from 'it happens to so few people we can just dismiss it'.

I'm speaking as someone who thinks she died of exposure after overestimating her own abilities, btw. But if I found out she was abducted, I would be mildly suprised rather than gobsmacked.
Absolutely.

Maura was:

-young,
-female,
-petite,
-alone,
-on foot,
-outdoors,
-in darkness,
-probably upset,
-possibly intoxicated,
-on a fairly quiet road,
-with her car visibly inoperable.

Even just a few of those factors made her vulnerable to a variety of potentially perilous situations. And what was the end result of her unfortunate predicament? She vanished. No trace of her has ever been found, in more than a decade.

Considering all these factors together, I don't think foul play is a statistically unreasonable scenario. People here often say, "What are the chances a serial killer came along right at that moment?" but it need not be so rare or dramatic as all that. Maybe someone gave her a ride who initially had no intention of harming her, but the situation later escalated for whatever reason, and ended in violence.

On the other hand, some of the same vulnerable circumstances could contribute to an accident scenario. Maybe she jogged 8 or 10 (or more?) miles down the road, something a person in her good physical condition would be able to do rather quickly, and something happened to her well beyond the car accident area (thus the reason she wasn't found). She could have been struck by a vehicle and flung off the road into a spot not easily seen.

In my city, a teen boy left a party late at night to walk a few miles home, but never arrived. Although the large search parties looked for him along the correct route, they didn't find him right away. He'd been struck by a car and was lying about 15 feet from the road, down a wooded embankment. The driver who struck him believed he'd struck a deer and had called police to report it, but the officers who responded didn't notice anything at or around the scene. Searchers found the body days later. Humans lying prone and motionless in the woods, in ravines, behind snowbanks, etc. are hard to spot.
 
The last few posts were right on the money.

Especially why a random abduction shouldn't be dismissed.

Also, trudging trough snow in winter in NH is no easy task either. Even in boots its no easy feat...you never know the depth or what your stepping into. Doing the same in shoes and socks? Your feet are wet blocks of ice after 30 minutes. I struggle to think anyone in their right mind would do such a thing, but you never know.

I'm not going to dismiss ideas and theories. Everyone has their own thoughts and it's interesting to read different points of view, even if it is rehashing information. Sure, some "arm chair sleuth" is probably not going to solve this one, but hearing new viewpoints isn't a bad thing - it's staying tuned in and being aware that possibly one day there might be resolve. Sure, Renner is writing a book, going to NH, talking with key players - we all can't do that on the same level. But, we can still discuss things and be open to new thoughts about the case. In the end, we are pretty much on on the same page. This isn't any closer to being solved than the day after it happened.
 
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